Hi, all...hope you're all doing as well as you can under the circumstances!! I know I have some emails to send (fhl, rr, parkem!!) and I'm sorry I've been out of touch.

Things are pretty much the same. Brief synopsis before my question...

I had felt that things were deteriorating between my H and I, but after his last visit he said he was starting to feel differently about things. Up until then I had contemplated a plan B (had not decided yet) depending on what happened with the holidays. Of course he knows nothing about Plan B so I don't believe that has anything to do with his feelings turning back towards me. Anyway, while I didn't totally shelve the idea of Plan B, it's being given less consideration. So far, while he asked for the coaching numbers and I gave him them, nothing has been done about it. Money could be a valid reason..I don't want to ask because I don't want to push.

Fast forward to Sunday....he has known all along that I would like to spend the holidays together. I knew he was going to his mom's, but I didn't see any reason why we couldn't spend it together there. Before his "mind change" (not complete change, but simpler to call it that), he said he really wasn't sure about the holidays and he'd think about it. After our "mind change" conversation, I had been hoping that he'd lean more towards spending the holidays together, though I didn't entirely expect that. I guess I figured chances were 50-50. So I brought it up Sunday and asked if I should just go ahead and make plans on my own for Christmas. Well he acted all confused and even got a little upset at my seeming obtuseness and couldn't understand why I thought we might since I knew he was going to his mom's. Blah blah...finally got him to understand that we had talked about it before, he knew I wanted to spend them together and he said he'd think about it, but he never brought it up again. Anyway...he basically said he couldn't afford to fly us up there (very expensive even on non-holidays to fly to AR)...and that he felt it would be an uncomfortable situation. While I can see his point, I guess I look at it from the perspective that I'm trying to save my marriage and I don't care who the hell feels uncomfortable because of that. But...it's HIS mom..and her house..so what can I say?

So we're supposed to see each other ever other month...so next visit would be December/January. we discussed me flying down to Puerto Rico since he's been taking a lot of leave and his command is starting to not be too happy about it. So he IM's me today and tells me flights are twice as much as they usually are until after January and that he was really sorry that he f*'d that one up. I'm just like..."*shrug*"..I mean, what can I say? I'd rather spend Christmas with him than a week in January anyway.

So then he asks if I wanted to drive up to Arkansas after Christmas. He SAID he really wanted to see me (don't know if he just felt bad about the january flights and knowing I was already upset about christmas or what). He's leaving on the 29th so that would leave me going up there for only three days...

It's a sixteen hour drive. Obviously I'm not going to leave on Christmas so that would bring me to leaving here on the 26th, a sixteen hour drive, even if I left at 4 AM wouldn't get me there until that night...Assuming his flight is sometime in the afternoon...that's only really spending the 27th and 28th together...with his family all around too.

I'm thinking that this is just sucky and can't really believe he even asked me to do this. I mean, I'm glad he asked and I don't think it was an empty invitation (meaning, I don't think he asked only because he thought I might not want to)...

I don't think I'm going to do this. It's just not practical, even when it comes to trying to save my marriage. But this also means a very long time before we can see each other again. this just really sucks.

Thoughts?

I really understand you wanting to spend time over the holidays together but it sounds like it will be you doing all the running. A 16 hour drive followed by time with his family (do you all get along?) could be torture. However, it also shows your willingness to spend time together and go to immeasurable lengths to work on your marriage. Speak to his family and see how they feel about it. Is OW in the picture?

tummytuck..well, as far as me doing all the running..sort of yes and sort of no. He lives in Puerto Rico so has to fly from there to Arkansas. I live near Tampa, FL..and he flew here in August and October. Then again, if he had never wanted the separation in the first place....snicker...

I get along with all of his family. His dad and step-mom live 15 minutes from me and I've gone over there without my husband in town and always feel very comfortable with them. I really love his step-mom to pieces. I get along with his mom and step-dad as well, though there's not really the same kind of bond there, if you know what I mean. I think that may be more because we spend a lot more time with his dad and step-mom than anything else. I haven't talked to his mom once since I left Puerto Rico, even though I wrote her a very nice and upbeat letter (that said nothing at ALL about my H).

No, there has been no OW in the picture since March of 2003. We agreed that we'd date others when we separated but then I found MB and saw what a bad idea that is. Makes sense that's it's a bad idea, with or without the other MB principals. I decided not to date and asked him not to, but he will not agree to that. He did say in our "changing his mind" conversation that he was leaning that way but would not commit to it. Despite his not agreeing to it, he has not dated anyone since I left. He did pursue a girl for about a month after his first visit with me (during most of August), but stopped all that and there's been nothing like that since...so even though he won't SAY he won't date..he's not dating. LOL...do actions speak louder than words in reverse too?

I don't mind spending time with his family at all...in fact I like to. But to drive 16 hours to only see him for two days (for all intents and purposes) and have no alone time together...i'm just not sure that makes sense and while I do want him to know how much I am willing to do for our marriage, I also cannot and will not and do not want to be at his beck and call, jumping at his every whim. does that make sense?

I'm really torn here. I REALLY want to see my H at every opportunity since he lives so far away and any time spent together is good time. And I don't want him to think I don't want to see him. On the other hand I'm very disappointed about the actual Christmas day and two days after Christmas after a 16 hour drive (each way) seems like an EXTREMELY cheap substitute. There was a time where I would've settled for just about anything as long as I had a faithful H back, but that has changed. I am willing to do a LOT, yes. I am willing to sacrifice and work very hard, yes. But I am not willing to accept cheap substitutes (of a very short duraction). This is what my H is offering me for after Christmas.

I think if I pushed hard enough he would end up inviting me for Christmas too, but really--that would just be giving in to pressure and who wants a Christmas like that? Not me. I'd rather spend it together because he WANTS to, despite the logistics and difficulties than just because he gave in to me. If he REALLY wanted to spend it together then there would be no reason why we couldn't. But despite whatever reasons he's actually giving me for not spending it together--the real reason must be because he doesn't want to. Period.

Part of me thinks I'm asking for too much. He's gives me a little, and I'm not happy with that and need more. I feel like I'm being a little unfair. But honestly, after all I've gone through, I'm not willing to get these cheap-assed STALE little crumbs only for the possibility of hurting again like I did right after we separated. I'm beyond that and don't EVER want to go back there again. I can let my walls down, but why let them down for a TROJAN horse.

I dunno...I don't know if I'm making sense or not. I want to save my marriage more than anything, but I want to save myself too.

I guess I already have my answer for myself, as I knew along..just appreciate the input <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I did exactly like you did. Wanted him and yet did not want only crumbs. However in my case OW is still in the picture.

Finally oneday i realise i NEED a break from WH. WH does not respect me at all because i was clinging to him by asking to be with him, inviting for dinner etc etc I did not force to be with him but i was still there willing to wait for him. I dont think that is what will get our WH back.

Since then i have back off completely. I no longer message him and i no longer call him. When he ask to drop by like 12 am at night i told him no and that i was already in bed although i was not. You need to do the same.

Let him do the calling and the inviting. You need to gain back your respect. Its not like you are giving up. Its just backing off. Take some time off and think of what you really want to do. If you are willing to wait for him then wait but dont ask. Let WH do all the action.

I am doing a second plan B...sort of. I feel better. I dont have to wait on my hands and knees for WH. I wish to have WH with me during xmas too but i will not ask. If WH wants me then he will ask and he will do everything in his ways to be with me.

Your WH knows you are there and willing to wait for him etc. Its time you back off...stop calling and stop asking. Just wait and see. When you are no longer doing those stuff...WH will start calling.

My WH has been making small contact with me everyday one way or another...either asking how my day was or how DD is...i reply all messages short with OK and a smiley face. I never ask him anything...nothing at all. I NEVER intiate any contact first unless necessary. I still reply to messages although short and simple because i want to keep the communication lines open...sort of telling him that i am still here..if and when he is ready to come home.

IMO...dont go see him this xmas season...let him make the effort to come to see you. Enjoy this xmas season for yourself...you will feel better. Take care

Hey MK,

Good to see you again!

Why isn't your H coming to Tampa to spend Christmas with you???

I may be wrong on this, but I'd take a hard look at your H's actions... and then decide what you want to do... Now, if this were me, and my W decided to go see her family rather than spend Christmas with me, then I'd interpret that action to mean that I didn't rate very high on her list of priorities....

I know that it hurts to be away from your loved ones during the holidays... but please think about protecting your heart and don't let your H manipulate you into doing something that you don't want to do...

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
<strong>
I dunno...I don't know if I'm making sense or not. I want to save my marriage more than anything, but I want to save myself too.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never forget these words above. If you lose yourself trying to save your marriage...what have you really saved? Best wishes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

RIF..well, he hasn't seen his Mom for two years...if he came to Tampa, where his Dad lives, who he sees about 4-5 times a year..well...there would be problems with her, regardless of what his reasons for coming here are (me or his dad). I can understand him going to his mom's...what I do NOT understand and there's no way to justify it or explain it away is why I am not being invited up there for Christmas. Would I mind a 16 hour drive if I was spending say..the 23'rd or 24'th through the 29th? Hell no! But for two days AFTER Christmas? Um....Well, actually I *do* understand..it can only be because he does not want me there. Or rather..he has not changed his mind ENOUGH to be spending a holiday like Christmas with me. I'm not mad at him about this..just disappointed in the whole situation.

In some ways, as you know, military life can be very difficult. His mom lives in Arkansas, his dad in Florida and my parents are in Rhode Island. We always got pushed and pulled to go here, there, EVERYwhere. We simply could not afford to fly to see everyone all the time. And that's even if he was home and not on deployment. I did put my foot down and said that Christmas was the one holiday that we would never go visit anyone, just spend it with ourselves and friends living close by and if family wanted to come visit, they were welcomed (and invited). That way no family member would be upset by being left out. That worked for us, though no one ever came to visit us.

And this year..well, we're not living together and have gone from being 95% sure he wanted a divorce to 50% sure. So sure, I can understand him spending Christmas at his mom's house. I do not feel cast aside because of that. What I feel cast aside for is not being asked to go up there as well.

The point is moot anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I talked to him like five minutes ago and told him I was not going to go up there.

What I'm wondering right now is...do I let him know how disappointed I am with the whole thing and why? I'm not sure what the point of that would be because there's no really appropriate response he could give, but on the other hand, it gives me a chance to let my feelings be in the open.

I'm just so po'd right now...okay yeah, I'll admit it...I'm po'd too, whether I should be or not. I feel like crying and I haven't cried over anything he's done/said in ages.

lemonman...yep..that was the biggest change I've had through this whole frigging mess--seeing that *I* was more important than the marriage. The marriage is important too and a GOOD one could add to my life..but I can't let it BE my life anymore, which is what I let happen.

zizzycool..well, H and I have a HUGE break from each other, seeing that he lives in Puerto Rico and I live in Florida. We talk a couple of times a week and see each other every other month. I had stopped calling/email/IM'ing him, though I would respond to his calls, emails and IM's. But as our friendship began returning, that has changed a little. I still do not call him, but I will IM him or email him. Not like i used to, but I will if there's something I want to let him know, but don't necessarily need to talk with him.

I don't call him or ask about our R, generally. I did ask about Christmas because I needed to make plans. He does call me 2-3 times a week and initiates other small contacts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RIF..just wanted to add something about words vs actions.

My h's actions are almost more confusing and set me up for more hurt (possibly) than his words.

His words are pretty much 50/50 for our marriage. Any R talk or basically any talk pretty much sticks to this.

His actions vary though. They really go from 50/50 that his words say towards leaning towards an eventual reconiliation. Yes, there could be MORE done if he really wanted to reconcile but looking at the whole picture, his actions say that he is either 1)equally undecided about either marriage or divorce (for example, not spending Christmas together) or 2) that he is leaning towards committing towards rebuilding (for example not dating despite the fact he won't say he won't and putting Miami as top choice on his dream-sheet. he also has pretty much stopped going out and spending tons of money). I've not seen anything in 3.5 months that indicates he's leaning towards divorce (for example talking with a lawyer, going out with a girl he was totally infatuated with several years ago. He had a MORE than open invitation when he was in town and he turned it down).

So I'm actually kind of relying on his words. I'm afraid that if I look too closely at his actions until at least the step of marriage counseling is undertaken..then I could be setting myself up more than if I listen to what he says. Does that make sense? I try to ignore the fact that he's not dating and remember to focus on him not SAYING that he won't.

Re: Christmas. I had no expectations or really hopes or assumptions about whether or not we'd spend Christmas together. All I know is that it was important to me and I wanted to and we're not going to. I am hurt and disappointed just because of that..not because I had hoped for anything more...know what I mean? Like playing the lottery..don't really hope or expect to win, but are a bit disappointed when you don't. I more than "a bit" disappointed, but the concept is about the same.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I'm actually kind of relying on his words. I'm afraid that if I look too closely at his actions until at least the step of marriage counseling is undertaken..then I could be setting myself up more than if I listen to what he says. Does that make sense? I try to ignore the fact that he's not dating and remember to focus on him not SAYING that he won't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi MK - If I remember from several posts ago, you gave your H the number to call and set up the MC, right?... and wasn't this one of your boundaries for accepting him back?

If that's the case, and you will only accept him back if he starts MC with you... then I'd wait and see what he does with the MC issue and not pay too much attention to anything else that he says or does. You will only drive yourself crazy trying to figure his actions and words out.

You've given him what you need for him to do... now it's up to him to actually make the call. Until he he does, then his words are just nice sounding words that give you some sense of hope.

Again, protect your heart... I do hope that he will come around and make the call...

Semper Fi,
RIF