So here's an update for those of you that know my story.

My WW has never admitted to an A, she continually lies about OM (name, meeting him, stuff like that). She is in a "finding out what she wants, doesn't know if she wants a traditional M", blah, blah, blah, fog, fog.

WW usually goes out on Friday and Sat. nights after work, and sometimes on Wed (ladies night free drinks). Last Fri. I had PI's follow her again and she went to her GF's house and not out to the clubs, I was thinking okay good. Then Sunday she took the kids to church and actually stayed for the service. MIL and I have been trying to get her to return to church at least for the kids so they can get into Sun. school. Okay Monday comes and I checked her cell and saw a text message "Hey sexy, have a nice day, hope I can c u tonight". I was almost positive it was from OM. So later in the day I ask her if she wants me to rent a movie, she said no that she was going out with some of her GF's.

I'm thinking who goes out to clubs on Monday night? She is going to see OM. So PI follows her again and gives me a call @ 1:00am. He says she is not downtown, but at a local tavern. Her GF is there and so is OM. Her and OM hugged a little nothing to serious. Since then she has been just doing shots with her GF and talking to her, meanwhile OM has been DANCING WITH OTHER GIRLS!!. So I started thinking that if she closed the bar at 2am and it takes 45min-hour to get home, I'll know what she does once the PI left. Well she got home about 3:30. So I don't think they could have done anything, although I don't know since the PI left, they could have made out but I don't think she could have gone to his house.

So what do you think, I saw her with my own eyes on Dday kissing and grinding on the dance floor. I'm sure she has slept with him, gut feelings, doing all the signs of an A (although she has continously denies it, says she knows what I think she's done). One other time after Dday I followed her I saw her and OM hugging and his arm around her but nothing as gutwrenching as the first time, also she was talking to other guys and dancing with other guys that night.

Now we have this Monday where OM was with other girls. So now I'm questioning on whether she is having an ongoing A or if now she is just out to the clubs trying to live a semi-single life?

Any thoughts folks. As a background I've been doing Plan A, exposed to everyone that has influence, and will most likely be moving to Plan B Jan. 1st.

She's headed downward....

Get ready for the B-bomb.

Sorry.... she's not behaving like a mature wife and mother.

I suspect some "swinging action" might be possible on her part. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Pep

Thanks for the reply Pep,

She's headed downward....

Could you expand, I actually thought that this was kind of positive in that maybe she's just trying to be out with her GF's.

Get ready for the B-bomb.

I am, plan on 1st of Jan, and I actually feel better having a timeline, although I really hope it doesn't have to come to this.

Sorry.... she's not behaving like a mature wife and mother.

Same here, I'm hoping that one day the fog will lift whether it be in Plan A or Plan B, only God can answer that.

I suspect some "swinging action" might be possible on her part.

OUCH! I wasn't prepared for that one. Have you seen this before? Maybe this isn't as positive as I had hoped. I guess I was just hoping that I finally saw something positive after 2 months.

she continually lies about OM (name, meeting him, stuff like that)

Why lie?

She is in a "finding out what she wants

Means she is not satisfied with what she has.

doesn't know if she wants a traditional M"

This is the remark that is worrisome and may be code-speak for "alternative lifestyle".... AKA "the lifestyle" ... AKA "swinging".... AKA "swaping"


saw a text message "Hey sexy, have a nice day

She's a married woman and a mother to young children...

I ask her if she wants me to rent a movie, she said no that she was going out with some of her GF's.

Doesn't want to be at home with her family... why not?

He says she is not downtown, but at a local tavern. Her GF is there and so is OM.

This is a single's life she is living.

Her and OM hugged a little nothing to serious. Since then she has been just doing shots with her GF and talking to her, meanwhile OM has been DANCING WITH OTHER GIRLS!!.

They (your W and OM) are not exclusive with each other... she's a party girl and he's a party boy. They party. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well she got home about 3:30.

This is not cool. She's been drinking and dancing and partying while her husband and her little one's wait at home... again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So what do you think, I saw her with my own eyes on Dday kissing and grinding on the dance floor.

A party girl

I'm sure she has slept with him, gut feelings, doing all the signs of an A (although she has continously denies it, says she knows what I think she's done).

I don't think she is in love with OM... she's just having fun and screwing around.

One other time after Dday I followed her I saw her and OM hugging and his arm around her but nothing as gutwrenching as the first time, also she was talking to other guys and dancing with other guys that night.

Your situation is different than most of the A's you see on MB. No real romance. Party buddies. Maybe casual sex.

Irregardless of her lack of attachment to OM ... she has a lack of commitment to her family.

This looks grim to me... but maybe I'm not seeing things as clearly as you.

Pep

IMO...

This is not about what she does or does not "do" with OM...

This is about what she is not doing with the family.

Pep

Why lie?

I asked her the same thing, she said she was trying to protect my idea of her, blah, blah.

Means she is not satisfied with what she has.

My thoughts exactly, this is what I told our MC/IC, that she is out looking for whats better then me, the life she could have had.

This is the remark that is worrisome and may be code-speak for "alternative lifestyle".... AKA "the lifestyle" ... AKA "swinging".... AKA "swaping"

I was thinking maybe just being single, since we married very young and never really did the club scene, she was pregnant early and we were too young.

She's a married woman and a mother to young children...

Yes, and she has said to me that she doesn't want to be tied down, to have any attachments. WHAT?? she chose to have kids and marry me last time I checked I didn't force her.

Doesn't want to be at home with her family... why not?

Feels trapped, like she's not getting the separation that she wants right now cuz I'm still in the house and doing plan A.


They (your W and OM) are not exclusive with each other... she's a party girl and he's a party boy. They party.

I'm starting to think the same thing, so this isn't a soulmate A, maybe a just ONS type or club scene type.

This is not cool. She's been drinking and dancing and partying while her husband and her little one's wait at home... again.

After Dday, she had been coming home at 9 or 10am the next day. I also know she had been staying at another guys house, not OM's I think but some "guy friends of her".

So if she's not attached to OM and just having fun out, is this better or worse then a soulmate type of A? Can you please expand on how this is grim? I really appreciate your insight Pep!! I'd also like to hear from anyone else if they have any thoughts. Thanks in advance guys!

Native:

I can only say "WOW" after reading your story. I shake my head in disbelief at your WW. I don't have advice for you, but I feel for you here. It must be so damn tempting to just tell your WW to "fu** off", but I know that you have kids. Are your kids what drive you to try and work this out, or is it the love you have for your wife still?

LM

LM my old friend, I was wondering when you'd pop in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> glad you did.

Yes it has been a hard Plan A for the past 2+ months. I feel like I'm detaching and my renewed place in the church with God has given me strength. I'm not the basket I was right after Dday. It is both my kids and my love for her that keeps me trying. Although I will admit that I fear I'm losing what little love I have left for her, hence the deadline for Plan A Jan 1st it ends. I guess also so I know that I tried my all and if she chooses OM or the party life than I can say to God and myself that I tried.

So LM do you agree with Pep, that this is not actually positive what I'm seeing that this is worse. Now I'm thinking that she's just having a midlife crisis (very wrong and bad ond) and that maybe she's no longer having a PA.

Thoughts anyone?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
<strong> LM my old friend, I was wondering when you'd pop in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> glad you did.

So LM do you agree with Pep, that this is not actually positive what I'm seeing that this is worse. Now I'm thinking that she's just having a midlife crisis (very wrong and bad ond) and that maybe she's no longer having a PA.

Thoughts anyone? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, I agree with Pep here. There is no rationalization for your wife's behavior here. There is not a shred of anything positive here. Your WW sicken's me. Who is taking care of your children during the day? What does the family say about all of this? If/when Plan B comes to fruition, what is your living arrangement plan? My friend, I know you set a deadline for Plan A, but I hope you are getting all of the Plan B details worked out NOW. I pray for you brother. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

LM, Unfortunately, I agree with Pep here. There is no rationalization for your wife's behavior here. There is not a shred of anything positive here. Your WW sicken's me. Who is taking care of your children during the day? What does the family say about all of this? If/when Plan B comes to fruition, what is your living arrangement plan? My friend, I know you set a deadline for Plan A, but I hope you are getting all of the Plan B details worked out NOW. I pray for you brother.

I think thats pretty obvious that there is no justification for what she's doing!!! So I guess I was just reaching looking for something positive in all this. I'm also starting to have questions myself (your thread about BS actually wanting WS back). Pastor, MC/IC, Pastor's son and daughter, MIL, my mother, and cousine all see my side of the story and have my back. We are all praying daily for her to come back. MIL and I have both set the Jan 1st deadline, then we are giving her into his hands.

Tues night we had a talk about her needing space and her separation. She said I could help her in getting an appt. if I help her payoff some of her medical bills, I said I don't know if I can do that (my part of Plan B). Now I'm thinking that I will save up and give her 1 months rent just to get her out. I will be most likely finding either a mediator or lawyer this next week. So that I can get the plan B stuff worked out, not for a full D yet.

Native,

There is no better or worse..but I can tell you with a good deal of certainty that your W and my H had very similar types of affair..I put them in the same subcategory.

Thing about these types is? It is frelling hard to find the vital organs..know what I'm saying? The soul mate type is just so much more...reasonable? No, not reasonable..but..if you think about it..it makes some sort of sense at least with regard to what plan of action to take. There is a person that they have become attached/addicted to..it's harder to suss out the parameters in this sort of A. Even though my H never wanted out of the M..or never said he did..even when he was certain he wanted to remain married our recovery did not begin until almost a year later because I/we couldn't find the heart of this thing and stop it. NC with what ? This was with IC AND MC AND a committed H/FWH who still acts like a WH. It was like..jekyll/hyde..jekyll/hyde for a f'ing YEAR after he wanted back in.

So..my H went all the way..full out sex with a stranger..after which..either his conscience or the possibility that someone else would get there first [ya always wonder..no matter what <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ] caused him to confess the next day [sh*ttiest B-day gift ever btw].

Hard to tell if your wife will get scared of herself..or when. Until that happens there frankly isn't a hell of a lot you CAN do to influence this IMO and my experience. You can get in the way..but until she willingly abandons this..you are only only in the way until next time.

Not to be a total downer..but because the addiction is to a lifestyle not a person..I really think that this one has the least chance for reconcile and is also very susceptable to reignition. Peters Pan and Panita if you will. Not a good prognosis. I will probably spend a good portion of the rest of my life waiting for the other she to drop...especially since these fine people are NOT large with the introspection.

You have your work cut out for you..and MANY very unpleasant lies and probable sexual escapades to wade through <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I know about sex with one woman..but I don't doubt for one single second that there is more to the story.

So..the best thing to do..know thy enemies. Strike while the iron is hot..and as for kicking them when they are down? Best time to do it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

1) Alcohol..these WSs dance so close to the edge of alcoholism at this time that I almost can't tell the difference.

2) Bad Company..you can just make a blanket assumption that every single person she is friends with is a snake in the woodshed no matter how nice they are to your face [if they even bother with that anymore]. If they were telling her what she needs to hear they would be discarded..so [censored] 'em..first chance you get to lay down the law..every single one of them goes..permanently.

3) Idleness..you been doin' too much of the work around here. She has too much time to think about herself..time for her to clean up after and care for the children..and work..and when she is too tired to even think about going out clubbing and grinding like a dog in perpetual heat..that's about how tired a young working mother of several children building a life should be. None of this sleeping till noon buisiness either. She is a student while YOU pay the bills...nah, a little too high school..she can't handle it.

4) Probable depression..these risk takers..they don't feel right without the high of high risk situations..maybe even ADD. Bring that up with MC when she's ready.

5) Privacy..this one applies to all sorts of liars and cheats. 'Nuff said.

6) It sounds ike she is pretty far gone..maybe even more so than my H was..although it's hard to know for sure..but expect it to get pretty damn dark before the sun comes up, if it comes up at all.

Not happy news, and I'm sorry to be the one to bear it, I really am. Plans A and B are still a good idea..but B will be more effective than A for you in all likelyhood. The party scene may have to play itself out..for awhile..meanwhile you witness her abandon your children in favor of drunken slutting around and..chances are good that when she's ready to come home..you will be ready to move on..you really don't have to look far or hard to do better than this.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Native,

I will probably spend a good portion of the rest of my life waiting for the other she to drop...especially since these fine people are NOT large with the introspection.


Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a tough way to live. I guess some sacrifices are worth it to save a marriage. I can relate to feeling this way and this was a factor in my not wanting to reconcile.

LM

Yes, LM

It sounds like the time your W spent with you WAS the aberration. She probably fits at least partially into this category as well.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Yes, LM

It sounds like the time your W spent with you WAS the aberration. She probably fits at least partially into this category as well.

Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YEP, and then some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know you guys are just trying to give me the facts and your opinions. However I have made a commitment too myself and God that I will believe that she is clean and a child of christ (despite of what she is currently doing). I feel by "painting this picture of her" it will go with God's word about faith.

Noodle and LM, I agree that this is probably not a soulmate A, so in my eyes this is actually worse! As she flippantly goes around with her sexuality. I have till the end of this month for my prayers and my plan A to do all that they can. Until than I have to keep the faith!

Do you guys really see no hint of a midlife crisis. I'm told that hitting 30 really hits women hard. My WW just turned 28 on Nov. 16th, so maybe it hit her early? Thoughts?

Sounds like Don Quixote syndrome. Don't worry, it'll pass <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Noodle

Noodle I'm afraid that I don't follow. Not a Don Quixote buff.

Native

Native,

She is your Dulcinea. It's part of the BS *fog* and it helps to protect your love for her [shrouding it in fantasy]. Eventually, when you are ready, you will see her as she is..on this plane..not from afar [unlike our tragic hero] and you will have to come to grips with some unattractive realities, just as she will. It's a process, it is to be respected.

Noodle

I see what your saying, it part of the BS fog. I don't believe that I have BS fog (denial anyone?) I know that she has faults, I've even gone as far as to say just today to MIL that it's a character weakness on her part, and I know the ugliness that she has become. My MC tried to make me live in part of a weird fantasy world as part of my therapy my first session. He was trying to erase those thoughts I have seared into my brain of that first night I saw her with OM. I couldn't do it because I don't believe in fantasy, I'm to practical/logical.

I'm making a conscious decision to believe that she isn't that person because I want to believe/have faith that God can make her into the good W that she can/should be. Some may think this is my fantasy but I don't see it that way. As we all have said we cannot control nor change our WS's, I believe only the WS and God can do that.

I want to protect my love, hence the reason for my deadline of plan A and starting of Plan B.

OK,

Maybe you are right. The fact that very nearly those same words came out of my mouth when I was about as far in as you are is not irrefutable evidence that you are in a fog. It isn't entirely untrue either..it's just that..your intellect knows what she is doing, but does your heart? I think when it hits both arenas at the same time is usually when the real fun starts [and plan B too for those serious about reconciling]

Noodle