My stupid programming project won't compile/link and is due yesterday.

My wife is living in a parallel universe.

I have a perpetual pit in my stomach and I have not had a good night's sleep in 2 months.

I can hardly believe what is happening. OM is a serial adulterer with a couple of kids and as many mothers for those kids. His lies started being uncovered on D-Day and have not stopped since (some of them seemed to be so gross that I thought my wife would be turned off from him forever).

My wife told me the other day that he is not even that attractive. Of course on the fall-out days after contact with him she tells me the same thing.

Then they don't speak for several days or a week and she starts to complement my impoving apperance or some body part that she finds attractive..."I like your cheeks"...

She pulls me close and says; kiss me, kiss me again, kiss me again. She takes my hand when we are in the car. She says ILY first, and I can hear she means it.

She lays her head on my shoulder or with my arm around her while we enjoy a little TV together. She holds me or I hold her at night, some times she even asks me to hold her.

We exchange smiles, hers even look like a school girl's smile that shows she is happy that a boy likes her (let me tell you that smile is the most beautiful smile in the world).

She used to say how blessed we are to have our family. Even when I was at my heaviest she used to pat my butt and call me 'you cute man'.

Just yesterday we had lunch together and then took a walk. She took my hand and did not let it go for 20 minutes. That was one of the nicest walks we have shared.

blah, blah, blah....enter phone call from OM (The one that is not even that attractive, remember?)

Then all of a sudden the ILY's and ILYT's stop, she avoids all eye contact. She asks are we physically attracted to each other, I tell her we used to be and that she has made me feel like she is starting to be attracted to me again (I think she is simply gorgeous).

Then she gets very defensive about my snooping and how she is worried that I would be in her business all the time. Well heck, I don't snoop unless I get the gut feeling that I need to be.

She says she loves 2 people and wants some one to lay it all out for her. She wants some one else to make the decision for her. She says she knows that a relationship with OM would never work.

She has been telling me since D-Day that she knows what the right thing to do is. I don't understand why she won't do it. She tells me she dosn't understand either. I have lost count at how many times she has started NC.

All the while a little bit more of me dies each cycle of NC, which so far has gotten broken.

Then I remind myself how very much I love Eeyorelover and her children and our child. If we were to seperate those 3 young people would be devistated. If we were to seperate it would mean that she and I would be avoiding healing the pains that got us to this point in the first place.

God, please take this from me. Guide me and my wife to where you would have us be. 2x4's are welcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

GREERGAN-- Your wife is still very confused and foggy about her feelings.
When she talks to the OM, he confuses her even more, thats why she gets so ambivalent with you. I am sure she still loves you and finds you attractive, but the persuasive words of the OMs make us WWs kind of dense, confuse, you dont even know what you feel anymore.
NC its a very difficult task to accomplish. I went thru that, and made my husband sick and crazy with the continuous contact. Thank God that I finally saw the "light" and in my last conversation with him, I told the OM something that really hurt him deeply, and he hasn't try to contact me ever since.
Because even if she really wants to maintain NC, if he contacts her, its hard to resist!! Even if she knows that he is bad news, not as good looking as you,etc.
You just have to hang there, not be too clingy or deseperate looking, but firm at the same time. That you want NC. She has to understand, and believe that you mean business, that you will leave her, if this continue.

Myrta

Have you exposed this affair?

WOW- we were exactly in your place not too long ago! I cried, too, as I revisited that pain - the hope that "it's for real this time" "I see H coming around" "He can actually see me again" -- Only to have another C ruin it!

GG- I took that last desparate step I knew would make or break the addiction - for H, it was telling his own family (father, bro, sis) what was actually happening. It was his last vestige of maintaining the farse that his 'indiscretion' was 'over' and that we were 'working on it' while he didn't break C, nor the facts of the lies, pain and anguish. (I sound so bitter)

He is still angry about that, but keeps it separate from our other areas of healing and growth (probably to ease his guilt: something painful to him that is my fault)

I sincerely hope this major turn-around I am witnessing is not only for real, but permanent. That is the only continous fear I live with now...

I sure hope you know that - no matter what - there is hope and a better life ahead for you. When you know that - in your heart - with or without her - things will start to improve for you.

star*fish: Her parents knew before I did, or so she tells me. I have talked to her father several times. I belive that he is upset by all of this and wants us to get things fixed up. I don't know if anyone else in her family knows or not.

Myrta: Thanks for your response. It helps me very much today. P.S. congrats to you and Stanley. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WOW- we were exactly in your place not too long ago! I cried, too, as I revisited that pain - the hope that "it's for real this time" "I see H coming around" "He can actually see me again" -- Only to have another C ruin it! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I thought it was for real this time. Then he calls and leaves a message where he is in so much pain, so she calls him back to ease his pain and he gets his hooks back into her brain.

I don't know if it is the anti-depressants starting or if I am just healing myself enough to get on with my life...as the thread is named "I just want to cry"...well I have not today and I am actually getting some work done again.

Getting work done again feels very good and I think my boss kinda likes it to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. I just looked in the mirror, I am not so ashamed as I was 30-50 pounds ago. Damnit, I am a good looking guy. Just need to loose another {looking sheepish}60 pounds or so and I will be HOT. I am feeling very good about myself, my body feels better as does my mind. I like this loosing weight thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I also like the fact that I am being more present in the home life. Not perfect yet, but I did almost all of the chores last night and enjoyed it. Partly because Eeyorelover is sick and partly because that is the stuff that life is all about. Put on the Zen CD she got me and folded clothes. It was nice.

The worst part of it was that I realized that I do not know where everything goes, or even where/when some of her new clothes came from.

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

GG - I don't know how to do links but the thread on this board "He'll be different with you, you're special" helped me immensely during my foggiest period. It helped me see the other man much more clearer and the nature of our relationship. Your WW may like to see it, especially since she is vacillating when she is being manipulated by the OM.

gg---

I am so very sorry you are going through this. You and your family will be in my prayers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bad d good d:
<strong> GG - I don't know how to do links but the thread on this board "He'll be different with you, you're special" helped me immensely during my foggiest period. It helped me see the other man much more clearer and the nature of our relationship. Your WW may like to see it, especially since she is vacillating when she is being manipulated by the OM. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here it is, thanks for it.

He'll be different with you, you're special

added: Just found this one too. Letter from Trueheart to WSs

chackler: Thanks for your message. It feels good to know that people really do care about other people. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

Truly hope it helps, GG. From EL's posts and your info it seems like it might be the right time for her to see how much she is being manipulated by the OM (either consciously or unconsciously). Might really tick her off tho' so be prepared.

BTW, my H thinks this was written by a man.

WOW, very long but it sounds hauntingly familiar. I think that the Rollins song gets to the point with no sugar coating as well.

*******************************************
Wow. That was awesome. Here's something else people who liked this might enjoy - a Henry Rollins' song called 'Liar' -

you think you're gonna to live your life alone
in darkness
and seclusion
yeah I know
you've been out there
tried to mix with those animals
and it just left you full of humiliated confusion
so you stagger back home
and wait for nothing
but the solitary refinement of your room spits you back out onto the street
and now you're desperate
and in need of human contact
and then
you meet me
and you whole world changes
because everything I say is everything you've ever wanted to hear
so you drop all your defenses and you drop all your fears
and you trust me completely
I'm perfect
in every way
cause I make you feel so strong and so powerful inside
you feel so lucky
but your ego obscures reality
and you never bother to wonder why
things are going so well
you wanna know why?
cause I'm a liar
yeah I'm a liar
I'll tear your mind out
I'll burn your soul
I'll turn you into me
I'll turn you into me
cause I'm a liar, a liar
a liar, a liar

I'll hide behind a smile
and understanding eyes
and I'll tell you things that you already know
so you can say
I really identify with you, so much
and all the time that you're needing me
is just the time that I'm bleeding you
don't you get it yet?
I'll come to you like an affliction
and I'll leave you like an addiction
you'll never forget me
you wanna know why?
cause I'm a liar
yeah I'm a liar
I'll rip your mind out
I'll burn your soul
I'll turn you into me
I'll turn you into me
cause I'm a liar, a liar
liar, liar, liar, liar

I don't know why I feel the need to lie
and cause you so much pain
maybe it's something inside
maybe it's something I can't explain
cause all I do
is mess you up and lie to you
I'm a liar
oh, I am a liar

if you'll give me one more chance
I swear that I will never lie to you again
because now I see the destructive power of a lie
they're stronger than truth
I can't believe I ever hurt you
I swear
I will never to you lie again, please
just give me one more chance
I will never lie to you again
I swear
that I will never tell a lie
I will never tell a lie
no, no
ha ha ha ha ha hah haa haa haa haaa
sucker
sucker!
oh, sucker
I am a liar
yeah, I am a liar
yeah I like it
I feel good
ohh I am a liar
yeah
I lie
I lie
I lie
oh, I lie
oh I lie
I lie
yeah
ohhh I'm a liar
I lie
yeah
I like it
I feel good
I'll lie again
and again
I'll lie again and again
and I'll keep lying
I promise

[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]

*******************************************

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bad d good d:
<strong> Truly hope it helps, GG. From EL's posts and your info it seems like it might be the right time for her to see how much she is being manipulated by the OM (either consciously or unconsciously). Might really tick her off tho' so be prepared.

BTW, my H thinks this was written by a man. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have little left to loose at this point. I feel like my family is almost gone from me anyhow.

{crosses fingers}

GG,

When your W morphs into the WS (glazed and hazed looks of a druggie type), then let her know that she is not very attractive looking to you either. This will match and block the fog babble that a WS throws out to the BS when contact with the OP has been made. I did that to my WS and he looked stunned. Of course the A did make him look sick. Very sick in fact. I recall the WS telling me that I would say he looked sick but that he wasn't sick looking. We took him to the doctor because...... he was sick and the doctor took me aside and asked why did the WS look like he was malnourished? I told the doctor to ask him but to keep in mind that the WS was now cooking and feeding himself away from our home because he has chosen to live on his own in an effort to find himself and BTW he also found an OW! The doctor (regular family GP) knew immediately. Doc was gentle yet firm when he spoke to the WS from that point forward. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So I had my 2nd opinion! LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

GG,

Just wanted to say I pretty much read whatever you write because you have a great personality. you are truly a sweetheart, and you will not be alone for long if your marriage does not recover. (in less you want to be) I don't care how much weight you are carrying around, you have an incredible personality and it shows in you posts, it really does.

Hang in there, and NEVER settle for less than what you want, need and deserve!

Took me most of my life to figure that out, but I know in my heart of hearts, I will never settle again. And I will never again settle for one who makes me feel bad, makes me worry and who doesn't uplift me and my DD's life. (and I will never again offer less than those things to another)

Life is just toooooooo short GG, and their is way toooooo much love out there.

You'll get there, and then I bet your WW comes around REAL quick.

GG,

One question, if your in recovery and your WW is willing to do NC. Then why do you still have the same phone #? Why don't you change it and that way OM can't call and leave messages? If you do change it and he does call again, then you know who gave him the #. Also I'm sure your already doing this but I would ask her to be an open book to you as long as you need it. Checking her cell, home phone, records, having her give you a daily schedule and having her stick to it if possible. Maybe you and her should read the recovery part in SAA together?

Just a thought IMVHO. Hang in there bro, I hope to get where your at some day!!

re: I just want to cry greergan

Greergan:

I can feel your pain and I am not Bill Clinton. The good news is that it will get better.

When a WW is in the midst of the affair she is in love or believes she is in love. Therefore, it is not easy to break away. I think we tend to look at this from a male perspective where the affair may be related to finding someone who is available for copulation. For women it is different, they are into the emotional intimacy and once they are saturated with that they go for the physical part. It takes time to get over that!

Don’t worry about the looks of the OM or the fact that he is a serial adulterer or a man with little integrity. The latter is a given and your WW knows this. What motivates a WW to have an affair with OM has nothing to do with looks or honesty. Remember--------- they picked OM because he was the one that happen to be available. My wife and OM were high school classmates. Not even once did she see the Om as a stud when they were teenagers. In fact OM knew back them that my wife was way out of his league. However, when they met 30 years later looks were not important anymore as long as ENs were met.

The OM could have been anyone--------- there is nothing special about OM. Remember, the WW is not looking for a husband, a provider, or for the father of her children. Lack of integrity is conveniently overlooked because this is not needed in an illicit relationship. I fact lack of integrity is a very important part of the relationship. WW simply stumbled on a man who filled her ENs at a time when she had very low-self esteem. This turns on the romance and voila!--- everybody gets horny. At that point the fog takes over and that is all she wrote Greergan!

The fact that you are better looking than OM is immaterial. I am also better looking than my WW’s OM. That didn’t help me at all. In fact some WWs may think it is safer to have an average looking OM. The important thing is the availability and the motivation to have a clandestine relationship as well as the ability to fill those ENs.

Right now I have low self-esteem (as a result of the A) and as you know this is no picnic. If my wife was not great at filling ENs I could probably fall for a less attractive woman who was willing to fulfill my needs. See what I mean? Obviously I am not going for another since my wife really knows how to satisfy my needs.

Whenever your WW enters the fog tell her that you don’t want a woman like that------------do it in a gentle manner. Let her know that with that behavior you may actually stop loving her. Don’t say bad things about OM, but gently point out some of his deficiencies. Be careful here because your wife may feel she has the same defects. In fact, it is better to wait and to allow your W to discover the defects on her own.

Don’t make the same mistakes I made: Don’t lose your cool, be nice, but stern. Let her know you have the power to end the relationship if she does not want to commit to the marriage. She may want to be a cake eater and keep you and the OM interested for as long as possible.

Tell her that there CAN BE NO RECIOVERY WITH CONTACT. All MCs know this. NC is the MOST IMPORTANT THING YOUR WW CAN DO. Stress this point daily------- BTW, I still ask my wife daily if the OM has tried to contact. This is crucial and could occur 2-3 years later. NC is for LIFE!

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Greergan, like Weaver does I find I relate to you and EL (Eeyorelover). It's funny how that happens on the board. I felt the same "kinship" with Bob Pure and Stanley and Myrta. Of course, there are loads of others that I "get along with" and they know who they are.

Anyway, I'm one of the FWW's that replied to EL's thread. Did she read it? If anyone can help her, I can. I was one of the most fogged out WW's on the board - although I hid it quite well for a while.

And now, speaking from a totally recovered stance, I can "show her the way" so to speak.

BTW, Stanley, 2ofakind is back on the board (on the Recovery board). He's the one with the great sig line about no contact.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> GG,

Just wanted to say I pretty much read whatever you write because you have a great personality. you are truly a sweetheart, and you will not be alone for long if your marriage does not recover. (in less you want to be) I don't care how much weight you are carrying around, you have an incredible personality and it shows in you posts, it really does.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks very much. This is absolutely the nicest things that anyone that I have never met has said to me. Made my day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks to everyone that replied today. It was ALL stuff I needed to hear and DOES help in my own fog.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, I'm one of the FWW's that replied to EL's thread. Did she read it? If anyone can help her, I can. I was one of the most fogged out WW's on the board - although I hid it quite well for a while.

And now, speaking from a totally recovered stance, I can "show her the way" so to speak. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to let EL answer as to if she read the posts or not as well as make her own choices about weather or not to listen to anyone.

This is big thing for me since I usually try to talk her into stuff. She hates that and I hate that. I never feel satisfied when she gives in so I am comitting to stop it.

The update is that we both saw the MC today. I felt very nerveous going in, still feel anxiety but it is reduced.

I really like our MC. He was the one that told me about MB. He seems very knowledgable, caring and non-judgmental.

Thanks again to everyone.

Hey everyone, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am the wife of Greergan. I saw a counselor last night and I plan on going next week to see him. I just want the tools to help me get my mind straight so I can end all of this madness. The OM is still calling me and I am still talking to him... Not as much as I had been but there is still contact and I do know that if I want to stay with Greergan that contact has to stop. I am just not sure that my relationship with Greergan can get to a healthy level for both of us. I guess time will tell though. I wanted to thank everyone for all your comments. I would just like to say one thing though. The OM and I started this A through emails and over time those emails became more than just friendly talk. Here is what I am trying to say. Weaver had responded to Greergan and even though I believe this person was just trying to be nice it struck a sour note with me because at the beginning of my A with OM our emails started with very nice comments about each other and it made me feel good, good to the point where I wanted more and over time I needed to hear them everyday from this person. That's how alot of relationships get started... I may be out of line saying that but it is just how I felt when I read it... Anyway thanks everyone for your comments........ Eeyorelover1966 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Comment from Weaver: Just wanted to say I pretty much read whatever you write because you have a great personality. you are truly a sweetheart, and you will not be alone for long if your marriage does not recover. (in less you want to be) I don't care how much weight you are carrying around, you have an incredible personality and it shows in you posts, it really does.

Hang in there, and NEVER settle for less than what you want, need and deserve!

Took me most of my life to figure that out, but I know in my heart of hearts, I will never settle again. And I will never again settle for one who makes me feel bad, makes me worry and who doesn't uplift me and my DD's life. (and I will never again offer less than those things to another)

Life is just toooooooo short GG, and their is way toooooo much love out there.

EEYORELOVER1966- Hi, Greergarn's wife!! I am too a FWW, trying to make my marriage as best as possible after the A. I also wonder if our marriage will ever be completely healthy-normal. But we are working towards that goal and each day gets better and better.
NC its very necessary, for you to get over the OM. I know its extremely difficult to achieve that shortly after DD. I was talking to OM for a good 3 months after DD. Not like before, but we still talked.
When you talk with OM, you must say something to him that will discourage him,hurt him deeply. Thats what I did the last time I talked with OM. Tell him, that you never had any intentions on ending your marriage, that the affair was a fantasy, that your husband its so good because he never had an affair and HE did. That you could never do that to your kids or to your husband. You have to make him feel bad as a man, so he can examine and look at himself for what he really is, NOt a good person. And when you talk with him you have to be as cold as possible, even if you talk to him. He will eventually get the point.
I also started my friendship thru the computer,e-mail,chatting online, and it develop into the affair. So, I can see your apprehension with what Weaver said to Greergan. But I dont think she meant anything by it, she was just trying to makehim better about himself. He sounds like an extremely caring-good man. I am sure that if you dont give your marriage a good try, you will regret it later.
Take Care!!

Myrta