He does not hate his father, I am sorry if I gave you that impression. He just does not talk to his family unless he needs something.

Yes he treats his friends and co-workers better then anyone else. I am actually very jealous, when H gave me the phone last night to talk to his friend, he had already been talking to him over an hour (that is what the timer on his phone said). H can not even hold a 5 minute conversation with me!!!

KMEJ,

It's not unusual for men to hate their fathers. Your husband has real problems with his manhood. I wouldn't be surprised if those problems have their root in conflict with his father.

By the way..the behavior you describe is typical of a scoiopath. They view people in terms of what they can get from them. He views you the same way: you give him things, so you are valuable to him.

He's clever and smooth enough to know how to play you. He can treat you like crap, and then reel you back in by wrapping a few presents or taking you to a Vikings game.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask, honestly, if you are convinced that he loves you. What is the answer? Have you ever tried cutting him off emotionally or sexually?

Why did your H want you to talk to his friend so late at night? What did he want the two of you to talk about?

that is sad.
you are supposed to be his BEST friend.
i wish i knew what to tell you to fix him, but sounds like he is happy being an @sshole. i know this no one deserves to be treated like you are being treated.
do you know any really big guys named bubba? maybe a few blows to the head may knock some sense in him.
if you do decide to leave, and are scared, you can get a restrainting order easy. my ww got one put on me for saying "i hate you" to her.

That hits the nail on the head...your husband is behaving like a child, and you are treating him like one in return, by enabling his bad behavior. Please reread your posts, and see what you think of your interactions with your husband now that a few days have passed. That is the benefit of journaling.

Have you been reading about abusive relationships yet? There is no motivation for your husband to change, because everything is exactly how he wants it. Just getting angry at him and telling him what you don't like about him doesn't work, because he doesn't respect you. You said he laughs at you for being mad. He know exactly how to play you.

Have you given any thought to why you stay? Not just the fear part, but perhaps in some way that you like the drama? Instead of using the extra money for kids activities, maybe you could use it for counseling for yourself, which would also benefit the children in the long run. And you don't need your husband's permission for that either. It might help you gain the courage to take a stand for youself.

The extra money was originally so I could registar our oldest in Flag Football. Now I have to keep working because we have no money. H borrowed it to another one of his "friends in need", with out talking to me first, but now I am being punished like I spent it. He has over $2,500 borrowed out right now, to some that might not seem like a lot, but to us/me it is. I got home from work to a mad H. He balanced the checkbook, and got the money ready to go in the bank, and after all that we are short. H told me I had to stop spending money, that i was wasteing it. I said all I bought was food, he said I bought food the kids wanted and spent too much. WE rarely run into this problem, and would not be here now if he had not borrowed out the money to his friends (one has owed us money now going on 3 years- H won't ask him for any because he knows he does not have any <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) I told H that he too needed to cut back in spending, and he said he does not waste like I do. I told him that buying Vikings tickets (more then one set for a year-and going with out me), gambling, driving his truck when he could take my car (uses more gas), buying DVD's everytime he goes out, ect. Is indeed wasteing money. He said that again I was avoiding the fact it was my responsibility. I told him to call me when he could talk to me nicely, told him to have a nice night and hung up. Maybe it is time I find a better paying job-not one that lets me spend more time with my kids.

It seems like it is one thing after the other.

TO answer anothers question. Do I really love my husband? I will always love him, I just do not always like him. It seems I like him less and less each day.

KMEJ,

Why do you love this man? And..why are you willing to stay with a man that you don't LIKE?

If your H is responsible for the money problem, how come HE isn't the one working two jobs?

H does not feel that the money problem was caused by him, or that it should affect him. IF he saw something he wanted he would still buy it. Nothing he want is stupid, nothing he wants to do is stupid. He is very self-centered as of late.

I think there is something to the other post about hateing his father. H watched his mother control every aspect of his fathers life. Still does, right down to what he eats to how late he can stay up. H HATES how passive his father is, and how he has no say in anything. Says so all the time. Thinks his dad is great when he is not around his mom and SWEARS he will NEVER be treated like his father is. I told him that has turned him into his mother. He did not like that at all.

AndrewA- I have been asking myself the same question alot lately. I have been running out of reasons and excuses lately.

opps double post...

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

KMEJ,

That was very insightful of you. He HAS turned into his mother.

You H needs to begin therapy at that point...his feelings about his father. If he could work through that, perhaps he would be a healthier person capable of treating you the way you ought to be treated.

In the meantime...you need to focus on YOU. Protect your boundaries and protect your children. Don't let him treat you like you ae garbage, because you aren't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H borrowed it to another one of his "friends in need", with out talking to me first, but now I am being punished like I spent it. He has over $2,500 borrowed out right now, to some that might not seem like a lot, but to us/me it is. I got home from work to a mad H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ,

You keep using the word "borrow(ed)"...did he borrow money FROM friends...or did he "lend" money to friends? Borrow is when YOU get it...lend is when you hand it to others.

I am just not clear on whether he borrowed...or lent money.

committed

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Oh sorry- He borrowed out or lent this money. My Bad, I always say it like borrowed out, borrowed from. Thanks for correcting me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KMEJ,

So...it's your husband's responsibility to get the money back. If he's so concerned about it, he should collect on those debts.

You shouldn't have to work two jobs because your H has made some bad loans.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Oh sorry- He borrowed out or lent this money. My Bad, I always say it like borrowed out, borrowed from. Thanks for correcting me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok...he lends money to friends...and doesn't get it back. Money that YOU are working 2 jobs in order to have!?

To me...that's just another reason to do something drastic.

committed

KMEJ, you can start out by just finding out what your options are. I talked to a lawyer over a year ago, just to find out what would happen hypothetically in a divorce or separation. It only cost something like $80 for a consult. I still haven't filed, but I know exactly what my options are now.

Love and abuse cannot dwell together. To knowingly hurt someone - physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually - is to declare a lack of love for that person. Acts of abuse drown out all words of love, no matter how sincere they may sound.

Romans 13:10

sss

Just got home from a great night at a friends house. WE baked cookies (Turtles, Russian Tea Cakes, Chocoalate covered Pretzals, etc.) and the kids played well, not broken arms or windows is always a good thing!!!

I have not spent time with this friend in months, and it was sure great catching up! A normal evening.

Have not heard from H yet tonight since I told him not to call me until he could talk nice. Must not have found good boy H yet ( that is what I tell my kids). That is okay. It is almost nine, I have some cleaning to do, and then I am going to bed. I am wiped!!!

can not seem to unwind enough to think about going to bed. I do not like where H and I left things this afternoon. I keep wanting to txt him that the baby is sick, but I stop myself because there is no reason too. I do not want to look weak, I told him to contact me when he was ready to talk nice, he has not called, so why should I contact him. I do not want to play games, but I also do not want to roll over and play dead.

On December 19th of this month we will have been a couple for 9 years. I do not even know if H remembers. I am not sure I even want to celebrate. It has been such a rocky year. **SIGH**

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> I keep wanting to txt him that the baby is sick, but I stop myself because there is no reason too. I do not want to look weak, I told him to contact me when he was ready to talk nice, he has not called, so why should I contact him. I do not want to play games, but I also do not want to roll over and play dead.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am doing a big old *****Sigh***** with you here KMEJ. Same thing different day for you I see. I don't think "looking weak" is something you can change in your husbands mind. Your actions and your inhumane ability to tolerate and accept his treatment for you SPEAKS far louder than you not text messaging him now to tell him the baby is sick or whatever. He knows it, you know it, we know it. I am not being an A-hole here to you, just telling it like it is. You by now know what to expect from me, so I don't want to let you down. You know you have me supporting you either way, but please GET REAL with yourself here.

P.S. Sorry about the Vikes. That was a very ill advised call by Tice to have Moss throw that double reverse pass at that point in the game. Sucks also that the Pack won. I still think the Vikes can win the division with a win this weekend and a head to head win over GB in 2 weeks, so keep you head up.

LM

wow you are keeping up on Football aren't ya lemmy? Yeah the game sucked. I was bumming.

I realize that I am a sorry excuse right now. I mean really I am disgusted with myself. H grabbed me around the neck, squeezed, shock me back and forth and then threw me back, and what did I do? Asked for a divorce in a mouse voice, picked up the room he trashed, finished getting ready for work, and left. The next night played cards with friends that want to swing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and got messages from H sitting right next to me of all the "hot girls" he works with that "want" him. What in blue blazes is my problem. H refuses to come to Christmas with us this weekend because it is at my moms house, he is mad because I had my brother over, and because HE lent out all our money and now we are short, but some how it is my fault.
What am I an idiot? I must be. URRG!!! Why can I not leave, why do I sit here waiting for more? If you can answer this question for me that would be great. I sit here and ponder it and I can not come up with a answer, and it makes me so mad at myself.

KMEJ,

I wasn't going to post tonight, but then I read your journal.........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why can I not leave, why do I sit here waiting for more? If you can answer this question for me that would be great. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Simple - because you have hope that the dream version of your H will come back. My guess is he didn't treat you like this in the beginning.....and so you hold on to that memory. You cling to it.

The thing is, though - your H chooses to be who he is.....and he chooses to treat you like that. Much like how the WS chooses to have the A and disrespect their spouse.

A quick note here. Part of you may not want to think that your H does not love you. My bet is that he does love you....but not in any kind of healthy way. He is unhealthy, You are uhealthy.......sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right.

You really need to print up your last post, and read it 100X over. Honestly.

KMEJ - you are in your own abuse fog. How do I know? Been there, done that. Heck, I went through two fogs - abuse fog, and WW fog......I have a lot of experience <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here's the trick though....fog is fog. Basically it is denial and rationalization....coupled with some compartmentalization. You could very easily relate the WS fog to the Abuse fog.

The problem with fog is that you cannot clearly see as long as it is around. There are some people who have posted that you must wait to take action (ie, leave) until your heart catches up to your head.

KMEJ - I highly disagree. Why? Because if I had waited until my heart caught up with my head, I would still be in an A as well as in an abusive M. In other words, you will have to take action before you start to see clearly.

The WS has to end the A before they will start seeing real life and their M for what it is. That's why they call it the "fog." It's the same thing with abuse. You have to get out, before you will be able to see the abuse for what it is. Period. That's it. Finito.

KMEJ....I know. I'm not 3 months out of an abusive relationship, and do you know what I had said to me this weekend?

1) LIT, I love your mind. I had no idea you had such unique thoughts. (never got to say my own thoughts before.....instead, I lived my H's thoughts)

2) LIT, I didn't know you were so funny and fun. I knew you were when you were little, but just recently, you have become a different person. (when M, always lived under my H's guidance - he got to be the funny and fun one....I was just "sweet" or "nice" - now I get to be both! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

3) (and perhaps the most meaningful....made by a woman in my counseling group) LIT, over the past couple of months, you have gotten more beautiful. I don't really know what it is, but you look so young, vibrant, and just beautiful. Maybe it is because you are growing. I am proud of how you have handled your pending D.

KMEJ.....this weekend really hit me hard. I can be myself, and people actually don't HATE it! I didn't think anyone liked me to be me. My H didn't. My H wanted me to be everything he wanted in a W - to the point where it usurped my own personality.....my own spark.

All you talk about here is your H and what he wants, how to change him, how to get him to see, how to have him participate in your M, how he changes from moment to moment, how to diagnose him, how he wants to swing, how he sends you pictures of girls, how he did not think of you...


HE, HE, HE - go check out that article again....

At least you are now to the point where you acknowledge that you know what you need to do. But you are still excusing it - you are fearful of leaving. You know what? I was fearful of leaving OM - as horrible as it sounds, he was my "escape" - to not "escape" would have meant facing reality. I was scared. But I did it. And I did it before my heart was ready......but the good thing is that by confessing to my H, it forced me to actually look that things for what they were - and not what I kept waiting for them to be.

4 months ago, I took the biggest step in my life. Bigger than confessing my A. I told my H that I thought we should separate b/c if he could not treat me with at least the respect of a friend, then I would not stick around. And this ended with him saying - "I can respect OW, but not you - not after what you did to me." A month before, we had a fight, and when we were hashing it out, I told him that I had feelings and needs as well. His response was "Your feelings? I don't give a &$^# about your feelings. This is about me. This is about what you need to do for me to make me feel better."

ME, ME, ME

It was all about him. It was always about him. And now it's not any longer. I wasn't ready in my heart to leave him when I did. I cried and cried every night. I laid in bed. I talked to my mom every 9 or 10 hours.

BUT I started taking care of myself, too. I read books, I went out to dinner with friends. I went go carting by myself.....just to show myself that I would be OK alone. I did things for me. Someone I hadn't paid attention to in a LONG time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

The point is, people are noticing the difference. And although my abuse fog cleared almost 3 months ago, people are beginning to notice the internal differences now. They say I'm funny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> They say I'm unique <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> They say I'm more beautiful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I'm humbled by these comments. I'm humbled that my leaving an abusive R has changed me so greatly that people are making these comments without any prompting or coersion.

You can't wait for your heart to catch up.....As long as you are in the fog, it never will. You will have to act first, and wait for your emotions to catch up later. I'm sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear. But it is the truth - regardless if it hurts or not.

Just wanted you to know that it does get better. And you know what - it gets better in ways you would never expect. I am learning to love myself again. I haven't loved myself in over 8 years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But it just feels so wonderful right now to be able to let some of that in.....to take care of myself.....to know that I was challenged with something horrific - and I am beating it!

KMEJ - you can beat it too! Set your goals, and just do them. Don't wait to feel OK about it - just do it. Sometimes the best way to get into a cold pool is just simply to "jump in" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>