Hi all, changed my name from gadgetolds to this new one, and since I seem to post more in the style of a journal I thought it may as well be one.
I appreciate all the input everyone has given so far, but sometimes I still feel so lost and out of control, ok that should say "most times". One second I am totally in control of my life, everything will be ok blah... the next I cant stand the thought of giving up. I hate this RC. All the while I am indecisive though, I am learning about myself, Im also becoming a more spiritual person.

I want to start this off with a little about me. I am torn all the time, most times I feel like a loser, other times I feel really good, confident, but that doesnt usually last long. The reason I feel this way is I think that all my life I have felt put down, not good enough, picked on in school, was never shown affection from either parent, amongst themselves to, my father worked for the RR so he was never home, and all mom did was sit on the couch and scootch us out of the house. I started getting in trouble with the law, started stealing whatever I could, must have stolen 50 cars in my time, broke into stores and restaurants and took the cash registers, beer, whatever we wanted. This was all in a short period of time, say a year or so, the money we got was used to fund our trip to Fl where we broke into a bar and left with the trunk full of liquor, in a stolen car. Well we got caught, I was put in juvenile jail. Parents wouldnt pay for my way home, my state wouldnt pay to extradite me, so the state of FL just let me go, paid for my bus ticket and said "dont come back". I had a 3 day bus ride in a T-shirt and shorts, with no money, going back to Pa in the middle of winter. That bus ride saved my life I think, the people I met were so giving and bought me food etc..

I was never prosecuted for any of the things I did because they never had proof of anything, the car we had in Fl was stolen from a car lot, and they didnt even know it was gone until I told them, so the Fl police had no information at all on the car, it just existed somehow, but it did have a stolen plate on it. I did do 6 months in a juvenile detention center, then 4 months in a group home for troubled youths, during this time I was always considered the model "inmate". Truth is, I wasnt troubled, I chose to do the things I did, I was let out 2 months early because of it, and not once did I ever see or talk to my parole officer. I am a good person who did some bad things, I never hurt anyone etc..

I guess growing up now I realize the things I did, how it hurt people etc.. and I want to be as far away from that role in life as I can.

Forward to today. I want an honest life. I have let fear and self-doubt rule my life to this point. Even when it came to loving my W.

My W put up with alot of stuff from me, she is more emotionally drained than anything else. I wasnt abusive verbally or emotionally, I made promises I couldnt keep, and I wasnt very affectionate. She on the other gave and gave and gave, until the day I called off the Wedding, it started waning after that, I didnt notice at the time, I was to wrapped up in myself and what I wanted, after all, in my mind, there is no way this woman loves me this much, shes just infatuated or something, Im not worth this. I did love her though, because of the person she was, that she could give so freely to someone like me, someone who never really showed my love back to her, or paid her any attention for that matter.

Well finally she had enough and left. I was devastated, after a month of begging and pleading, she came home, the honeymoon began, but it didnt last long until my questions started, you see, she was living with another man for that month, she denied sleeping with him, I tried to let it go, but it kept eating at me, she was lying. I couldnt trust her anymore now, I begged her to tell me the truth so we could move on, she wouldnt, over the course of the next year and a half, which puts us at about 7 weeks ago, things got worse and worse for me wanting to be with her, I withdrew further and further. She left again, to be expected I guess. A few days ago I posted about some things she does that bothered me, after thinking about it some, I realized she didnt do these things before, that if it wernt for me, she wouldnt be doing them now, I know she made the choices, but she should have never been in the position to have to make those choices.

I am here to fix myself and our M, I called her place of employment and asked them to get her a message to call me (shes a bus driver), she called shortly after, now mind you, we had just had a big fight the day before, so anyway, she calls and I ask to see her, she says she doubts it and we hang up, about an hour later she shows up and says you have 10 minutes before my next pick up, so I tell her a few things about what kind of life I want, for myself, and for our M, I feel like the way she was looking at me was a good sign that my words reached through the fog some, I havent seen that look in her eyes for awhile, like she was searching my soul for the truth, and saw it.

Ive made my mind up that after all the flip flopping I have done, I am going to help my W find her way home, then she is going to see the love she has always wanted from me, I feel it in my soul that she still wants it from me. I am willing to go through all the little pains I get all day, all the nausea, everything, she did it for so long for me, I owe her this....I owe myself this.

If you read all this, wow, must be bored lol, seriously though, all your comments are welcome throughout this journal. Thanks for reading and please dont judge me to harsh. Ive never known what true love was about until I came here, I understand it now, and I know I have it to give now. So the journal begins:

W is supposed to stop over today, she said she had to help her dad so maybe then, well see. I dont plan on talking about the R, which I have a very very bad habit of doing. I feel I have to try to convince her that it will be better, even though I know the opposite is true. I am not going to do that anymore, I am just going to be her friend.

{{Steve}}

Good Morning. Good post. I don't think I have posted to you before but I have read your threads.

I know you are trying. And I see that you recognize that you have your own issues. And that is a very good point to be at.

YOu said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't plan on talking about the R, which I have a very very bad habit of doing. I feel I have to try to convince her that it will be better, even though I know the opposite is true. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does that mean? Does that mean that you know you can't convince her? Or that you know things won't be better?

What follows is my opinion and the other more experienced MBers might have better advice, so take this as my own take on your sitch.

Steve, some time in the future, if you have not already done it, I suggest that at the right time, I would tell her what you have written here about how you accept your responsibility in your marriage problems. I am NOT saying that you should accept ANY responsibility in her decision to have an EA/PA. Just that you recognize that you ignored her needs, etc.

And, another thing. When you do this, sit across from her. Not beside her. FACE her. And, if at all possible, hold her hands in yours and LOOK right in her eyes. And the first words, that need to come out are: "WH, I apologize for my part in the problems in our marriage." Also tell her that you are in IC, and whatever else you are doing to address your issues. Basically a Plan B without the leaving part. THat is, talk about your role in this marriage and what you love about her, why you got together, etc. Without the ILY's. THEN tell her what you said here.

THEN, ask her: What can I do to make things better, now? I think it was Orchid who said something along this line.

Just to clarify something: When I said specifically to sit across from her NOT beside her. That is a woman thing. Women unconciously feel threatened when someone sits across from them. If they really trust someone, they will accept them sitting beside them. So, in this sitch, as you are trying to build trust, by not sitting beside her you are respecting her personal space.

Men are the opposite. THey sit beside each other. THat Venus/Mars thing.

THis has all to do with body language and personal space. I learned that in counselling and communication courses.


My prayers are for you.

FAA - Thanks for posting, what I meant about trying to convince her was that, she is only here for a very short time usually, so during that time I feel that I need to tell her how things will be different, how I feel different etc, because she is never around to see them, or experience them, when I said that I knew the opposite was true, its because I know that I dont need to convince, that is something she will have to realize on her own.

As far as telling her all those things you mentioned, I have, when I told her how sorry I was, she said she was sorry to that it took me so long to figure out, its funny you mention the sitting across from her, I always do this, she usually sits on the couch and I crouch in front of her holding her hands and look into her eyes, thats when I got that look yesterday in the first post.

The problem with me telling her all these things is that I said them the last time she left too, and before, shes heard them alot from me, I just feel I never knew how to be different before, this MB stuff has shown me TONS, and lead me to other places where Ive recieved help.

When I ask what I can do NOW to help, she says she doesnt know, that she doesnt think there is anything I can do, she just thinks its over. But she still comes over and I still see it in her eyes sometimes, so Im keeping my faith that she truly does want to believe me, its up to me to show her is all.

She also thinks I never loved her anyway, because of the way I treated her, so that is a big obstacle, Im just doing this because she has been my meal ticket and maid, in her mind. At least I can understand why she would feel this way.

FAA - I have read alot of your posts to, and I hope things go well for you also, everyone here has been in my prayers...

I hate days like today, its cold, rainy, little windy, sure doesnt help the mood inside. Makes it hard to be motivated. Im trying. All my "friends" want to do is take me to the bar to find someone new to get me over this stuff, seems that everyone in my family is having a crisis right now, my favorite aunt may have some sort of brain cancer, my brother who is 26 may have the early symptoms of MS, my mother and father are on the brink of D and are both on the verge of losing thier jobs, my F because of drinking.

I live a good distance from anywhere worth going, W took control of both vehicles, the TV, and the stereo. I sit here in my little apt, with only this MB to talk to for real "support". Everyone wants me to just move on. I feel Im fighting alone and noone who I care about will understand why I want to fight so hard for someone who would do this to me twice.

I cant wait to be able to get the h*ll outta here, I want to join the Y and get some swimming in. Sure, I walk alot lately, but its in circles and frankly, Im getting bored with the scenery, no idea how much weight I have lost, I dont have a scale, but I need a belt now and my pants are getting uncomfortable to be in.

I wish I could get rid of all these images in my head of her having such a grand time out there with OM. I hate this RC. Knowing that I am in withdrawl helps, so those moments are getting shorter and shorter. Still waiting to see if she shows up today. What really sucks is that I am "stuck" here, and I dont want her to get that impression that its because I want to be. Im going to ask her if she would like to join me at the Y, shes always wanted to go there regularly, I know she will say no, but I will ask anyway.

Well, here its been all day and shes a no show, I expected it, doesnt change the fact that I was hoping to see her. Was out walking in the slushy rain/snow, Im soaked to the bones, funny how I dont even notice when Im walking just how cold and wet I am. As Im walking Im talking to God, at least the only way I know how, not sure if its praying or just talking, or even if it matters. I dont know if Im asking for the right things, not sure how to ask really, everything sounds selfish.

Right now my thinking is that I dont care if my W wants to come home or not, if she does, great, if not, well, someone else out there will benefit from her leaving to.

I want a family, my own children, but, Im 31 now and not getting any younger, I never wanted kids before, up until a few years ago, at one time, before my W, an EGF who was very dear to me came to stay with me, she was in an abusive R at the time and was trying to leave, well, she ended up missing him and going home about 4 days later, Ive come to find out in the last year that during the time she was there, she got pregnant, she got an abortion soon after, the more and more I think about that, the more and more it bothers me. We have been in recent contact and I told her I forgive her, she is so torn up about it, still. She has 4 other kids and a H who was just like me before my W left the first time, all he does is sit in front of the puter and not work, or help at all, I felt so sorry for her. Maybe the abortion thing is bothering me more now because my W is gone and I want a child now, with her, I dont think that will ever happen now, that doesnt leave me much time to really work on it with someone new, besides, I dont want someone new. But that thing about me having had that opportunity and not even knowing it has be bothered now, alot. My W always talked about how cute our kids would be, If id gotten off my fat a** and gotten a d*mn job, maybe we could have afforded invitro or whatever we had to do, Im miserable at the moment with all these thoughts in my head, what if this, what if that, Im so sick of this feeling, everyday from the moment I wake up till the moment I go to sleep I think about her and us and what happened here or there. I can truly testify to the fact that withholding an A and not telling can utterly destroy a M to the core, there are so many things it interferes with.

I wish I could sleep the weekends away, sometimes I just want to sleep and not get up, I get past those, I have to, Im not taking the easy way out, not this time. This is the hardest thing Ive ever done in my life, I know its for the better somehow, that it will get easier, right now I cant see that though, feels like Ill have these feelings forever, I HATE THIS!!!!!!

LTHW -

I had a very similar childhood to yours, and have buried deep the baggage that came with it. I figured I would deal with it one day, and it did not affect me right now.....WRONG! Because of my issues, I was angry and withdrawn, and always looking for escape. I had never considered myself introspective, I think because subconsciously I didn't want to see what was lurking deep inside my psyche.

As someone who has been there, and is still there, I would strongly suggest working on you. Seek out a good IC, clean the junk out first, then work on your M. Your W will see the changes in you, and be drawn to it like a moth to a flame.

I am still very new at this too, but I have learned so much in such a short time here. Keep reading, learning, examining yourself, and praying.


TM

Thanks for the reply TM, it is hard to get past alot of the "junk". I think I feel bad about it sometimes, because I know I am not that person, dont know how I got caught up in that, but it was a long time ago, time to let go of it.

Now to the journal:

Got up at 4:45 today, again, I hate getting up so early everyday, doesnt matter if I got to bed at 9 or 1. Got dressed, went for a walk, got back, had a smoke and a glass of cran/peach juice. Now Im sitting here going over last nights posts, so sad all the pain here. Sometimes I have to get away because of it, my own pain is hard enough, then to come here and read everyone elses pain is sometimes to much.

This rollercoaster Im on seems to be going over some hills that are a little smaller recently, although I still hate it. My W never showed yesterday, and I know she wont today, so the next time for contact will probably be tomorrow morning, shell either show up around 6am, or call about 7:25, if she doesnt then, it wont be till the next morn. Im trying to see time for doing Plan A, but under the circumstances, I dont see it.

Shes trying to push me away I think, she did it last time she left to, even told that she was hoping Id just walk away, of course that is to protect herself, she cant do it. Im getting to the point of not caring really what she does, I am getting quite lonely, I need to have some human contact real soon, and since we were never "technically" married, it would be ok for me to do so, at least thats how I feel right now, besides, she told me to find someone else.

Why is it some days I can see so clearly why I need to leave, and I feel so strong and right, the next minute, I can see so clearly why I need to fight forever for this woman, and again, so strong and right. I guess once the "leave" days get to be more than the "stay" days, its time to move on.

I have downloaded so many comedy skits or shows and stuff its not funny, old SNL skits are hilarious, especially the ones with Dan Akroyd, Chevy Chase, Steve Martin etc....laughter is the best medicine, but its effects are short term.

Id like to get out and find a church I can go to, unfortunately I HAVE NO CAR!!! Man that pisses me off, I cant believe she took both our freakin cars, just so I couldnt have one, why the F do I even want her? Jeez...I must be absolutely out of my freakin mind, I cant get to the store, to um lets see, anywhere. She deserted me and stranded me here on purpose, made the choice to.

Oh, not sure If I put this in my other posts or not but, she took the last bit of my bill money out of our checking account the other day, well it was the 2nd of Dec, the next day she claims the teller made a mistake blah blah blah, told her I needed it for my bills and she said she paid her bills with it already! So she would get it back to me the next day, guess what, next day, didnt hear a peep from her. Sat shows up, she stops by and gives me $20, now get this, Im totally broke, and had been since the week before this, my bills arent paid, and the cats now have no food, I have no food, BUT! the bills are finally getting paid no thanks to her. Now, the rest of the week goes by and all I hear all week is about getting paid back when this other check clears her account, well ya know what, Im tired of hearing her lies about stuff, so Thursday morn I hit the bank when they open because I know that she has direct deposit into her new account (caught a ride with a neighbor taking her son to school) and I decided to see if they would let me take money out of her account, sure enough they did, so I took my money back. I expected a call that day, never came. When she finally did say something about it I politely said "well Im sorry I had to do that but, right now I dont trust you to do whats right all the time", she shut up, but did say the bank didnt like me forging her name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , buts its a small bank, they know us, she never had a problem with me signing stuff before? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

*sigh* I am so not sure I want her to stay, Im thinking it might just be way way to much work to be let down again, might just be better to invest in someone new without all this baggage, do it right from the beginning instead of trying to convince someone who pretty hates me to try and fall in love with me again, especially when shes "in love" with someone else, who is supposedly such a "good" guy, his W left him because he worked to much, told my W it was funny that she was leaving me because I worked to littlen and his left because he worked to much, I told her "see, your still gonna have problems, grass isnt greener." one of her things is time spent together, so i dont see how thats better now. fingers starting to hurt....im out

Steve,

Open up your own account for your own deposits. That way she can't have access to them.

Cut back on your contact with the WS. Notice how each contact leaves you down. Yet you keep striving to teach her something important.

It is important but she can't be taught right now so don't waste your time. Save it up for when she is mentally capable of learning a valuable lesson.

L.

Thanks Orchid, want you to know I really value your opinions and have read alot of your posts.
As far as your suggestions, I will definately be opening a new account as soon as I need one, and as far as cutting back on the contact I have with my W, you did notice that its only a couple times a week, mostly on the phone, for about an average of 10 min? Id say there is only about 1/2 hour to 45 min of contact a week. With that in mind do you still suggest cutting that down? Or should I just not talk about the R anymore, because, thats about all Ive been doing.

wow LTHW. your thoughts and feelings are exactly what I feel. I was also too withdrawn for my wife. She kept giving it all and then she got feed up and fell for a man who's been chasing after her since she started her new job.
I know I can change, and that I am changing. I just don't know how to show her. Now I'm more than willing to finally open up.. to grow up.. and to be their emotionally.. but I fear it's too late. And as much as I tell myself I can get through this, I don't think I can if she leaves.

Fighting - I am so sorry that anyone has to go through the same things I am feeling, as far as making it through this, you will, you have no choice, if this doesnt work out with your W, then it wasnt supposed to from the beginning, that just means you were here to learn so that when your true W shows up, youll know how to compliment each other and be true soul"mates"

Everything happens for a reason, takes awhile sometimes to see the lesson in things, I try to keep positive, so damn hard tho most of the time.

As far as "showing" her, I think Im finally learning that it isnt up to "us" to "show" her, its up to "her" to "see" it, if you know what I mean. Right Orchid?

bumpity bump for Orchid?

Well here I am again, I think Im just going to give up. I dont think the fight that is ahead for us if she even did decide to come home, is to much for me, I dont want to fight anymore. I just want to start over.

I called her OM cell and left a message for her to call, she called and was mad of course because I am supposed to never contact her, just when she wants to contact me, because according to her I have no reason or right to get ahold of her. I asked her to bring back HNHN and LB books, and my ring, she said she wanted to read those books, I told her she had them over a week now and hasnt even touched them since they went in the car, and I have a friend who could really use them.

Im not going to Plan A, Im not going to Plan B, Im just going to Plan get away from it all.

If she wanted to have any kind of interest in making things work, maybe Id try, but she doesnt, she just wants me out of her life, and I can never get a straight answer form her on what she wants, when I say NC, she says fine and I dont hear from her, everything she has said and done shows me shes just in contact because most of her stuff is still here, the things I saw in her eyes, I could have mistaken that for the dead stare, thought she was searching my soul, obviously not, Im so tired, Im so lonely and Im so depressed, I cant stand the thought of giving up, and I cant stand the thought that she already has, I cant stand the thought that I will forever be without her, I cant stand alot right now.....even mytself. Maybe someday Ill be able to mkae someone happy, unless things change, this will be my last post

Well, I dont know if this is a change or not but, I had something revealed to me during a conversation that really made me think, Id like some opinions on this.

When me and W first started dating, say within the first year, I had a phone conversation with my EGF where I told her I loved her and wanted to be with her, I also knew I loved my future W, after the call I felt so bad I never called her back, after a few years my EGF and I had another conversation, this one was how are you type talk, couple of more years and in the last 4 or 5 months, my EGF and I had another conversation, during the last few years I found out she was pregnant at one time with my baby and had an abortion, well after talking with her sister I decided to email her that it was ok, it hurt, but she was forgiven, then I told my W about the emails, she flipped, but, I told her because I wanted to. I also told my ex that I couldnt talk to her ever again because I loved my W to much to hurt her. In all these years of conversations we never saw each other, but I feel now that it was very unfair to my W, I feel that maybe I could have started withdrawing way back then from my W, maybe a little resentment? Maybe guilt? Im leaning more towards guilt because I have stayed in the R and told my ex we had to have NC, I havent thought about that first phone call so long ago to my ex in forever it seems, could I have been feeling to guilty to have a healthy R this long?

I think this is the case, its turned my whole head around because here Ive been angry at my W for 1.5 yrs for not telling me about her first OM, and holding all the feelings in, and lying etc, when actually, I did it along time ago, I want to tell her this. W has always said I threw my ex in her face sometimes. I do truly feel free after I told ex NC though, now I feel all this pent up love for my W, could this just be in my head?? Im so confused right now, should I even tell my W right now during this storm? shes already living with OM and we are on our last string here, theres nothing holding us together, no kids etc...what do you think??

Bumping up, need to know if its smart to tell her these things at the moment?

Well I have decided that I am not going to tell the X about this last post, not as long as shes gone already, no sense in hurting her more if theres no reason. If things change and she decides to work on us, Ill let her know then so she can make a decision.

This morning she called and we talked "nice". I actually did everything right with no lb's, upbeat and pleasant, havent heard that tone in her voice in awhile, the cheery, bubbly her that I know, ended with a "will talk to you later, bye" instead of a "click".

Ive been reading the bible alot, it seems that everything Im reading is being directed right at me and this whole mess, all about faith, at one time in my life I remember having faith, I guess I forgot for awhile what it was, its all coming back now though, Ive never been very religious, but I always believed in a "higher power". I watched Passion of the Christ, boy thats an eye opener, I am finally at the point that I am beginning to have faith and putting this in Gods hands, and it feels like a weight has been lifted from me.

Its time for me to grow up, take responsibility for my life, get right and know the best is yet to come.

LTH, I'm not really sure what to say about those phone calls.

Just wanted to let you know that someone was reading, even if they can't help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
<strong>Just wanted to let you know that someone was reading, even if they can't help. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, its nice to hear that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As far as the calls, Im trying to figure that out to, I asked once and she said she cared about me, wanted to make sure I was ok and all. Who knows...

LTH, I don't have kids with my H either and while I'm glad there are no little one's whose hearts are being torn apart, i also understand the concept of there being no ties whatsoever.

At this point, I feel that if you feel that you have something to apologize for, then you should do so. But do so with the expectation of nothing happening in return. I suspect you are truly sorry that you didn't realize how that affected your wife. I can see why it did, as it would've upset me as well.

I'm jsut not sure how you'd bring it up. In my mind I think, "X, I understand that there is very little hope for us, but there is something that I've been thinking about and I'd like to share it with you. I am very sorry about xGF, and even more sorry for not realizing how much it hurt you. I have no excuse but I am sorry. Later on, I should not have been one to throw stones when I was living in my own glass house. For that I am truly sorry."

The problem is that you would have to do this in a way where she does not have to respond if she doesn't want to. And also, you don't want to be saying stuff like 'little hope for us' because even if that's true, you don't need to be putting ideas into her head.

Sorry, I'm not much help. I can understand your desire to apologize. The trick is to find the appropriate way.

Thx - Youve been more help than you know, I guess Im struggling with the timing alot, I feel it would only drive a wedge in where its not needed - at the moment. I think this could seriously influence her being determined to stay with OM, at least right now. She really really really hates my XGF because of the abortion thing, plus her knowing the xGF was in my head all the time, she is very emotional about her. Right now just doesnt feel right.......is that bad?