LTH, well, your concerns about timing sound right, but whether or not it really would drive a wedge between you I couldn't say. You might be making it more complicated than it needs to be, but I dont' know your wife...

Even in the the thick of my husband's "single-life" mode, he truly appreciated and thanked me for an apology I gave to him for something I had done during our marriage. It didn't bring him any closer to me at the time, but it sure did not drive him further away either. I think he welcomed the apology and was rather surprised at my acknowledgment of wrongdoing as I had blamed everything on him for such a long time. And while it did not make a difference at the time, I think it did stick in his head and made a difference later on.

maddyk, thanks for your insight, when I do finally get to see her I think I may go ahead and tell her, Ill have to think about it till then, which is probably going to be awhile anyway.

Shes called the last 2 days and we have both been very pleasant, I still wonder why she calls everyday, is it that she doesnt want to let go, or that she wants to see me be ok with all this before she goes dark. At least Im not wondering so much now, doesnt really matter why shes calling, gives her a chance to see Im for real I guess. Since I really dont expect her to come home now its easier, things will be as they should.

We woman are very complex, and tricky.

I think she calls because she wants you to love her. The call will remind you of her, and then you won't forget to love her.

Kind of like a post it, don't forget to love your wife today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kyellow4:
<strong> We woman are very complex, and tricky.

I think she calls because she wants you to love her. The call will remind you of her, and then you won't forget to love her.

Kind of like a post it, don't forget to love your wife today. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lol, I like that thought alot! Even though she only talks a few minutes? And I found out she has another cell phone that her father gave her, and has had it at least a little while now, so she could call on my breaks, after work etc... I dont know, in my head I see it as something else, I hope Im wrong in a way, I havent seen her since Monday, that was for about 5 min, and the same the Fri before, only maybe 4 or 5 times this month for about 5 min each lol, shes making it to easy to forget her.

LTH, I think that kyellow4 is right on with what she said about your wife calling you. It's her way of staying connected. Even if it's only for a few minutes. And think of it this way...those few minutes are short enough for you not to fight and LB...and long enough for her to get good feelings about you. Baby steps and that's one of them.

My H is in Puerto Rico and I'm in Florida so we're a farrrrrrrrr ways away and rarely see each other. When we first separated we agreed we'd talk once a week. We found things getting very awkwards and we were losing what friendship we still had left. I proposed to him that we talk twice a week and make our calls shorter. Well...since our calls were more frequent, we actually had more to talk about since we were more familiar with each other's daily routines. Our calls our actually longer now than they were when we only talked once a week. Also, since I had SOME kind of reassurance from him (just the fact that he called), I was less inclined towards R talk and things were more relaxed.

I think it's great that your wife calls you frequently. Who know if there will be a time when you need to take that reassurance away from her but you can bet that she will miss it.

Your face-to-face visits..short or not are also good, as long as they're not too awkward or intense. Gives your wife a chance to see you in small doses in a non-threatening way.

She is not making it easy to forget you, or for you to forget her. I propose that it is the exact opposite. I can't tell you if any of this is good or bad. It might be cake-eating on her part which is not good for YOU. But she is not indifferent towards you which means there is hope. It may not mean anything in the end, but then again, it might.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
<strong>I think it's great that your wife calls you frequently. Who know if there will be a time when you need to take that reassurance away from her but you can bet that she will miss it.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its funny you mention this, when we talked this morning I told her I had gone to the YMCA and bowling last night, well she asked "what was her name?" I said huh? And she told me that I would not have gone otherwise, I told her that this was about me and I didnt need anyone else to make me feel like going anywhere. Well, tomorrow morning I plan on not answering her call, see what happens, usually I wont see or talk to her over the weekend, and if I do this on Fri. morning Im hoping shell think "why isnt he answering?, he always answers, especially knowing I wont talk to him till Monday" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Ill answer Saturday if she calls, or stops, but I guess Im hoping itll make her start to wonder whats going on with me.

I think that's great and I think it will make you feel good too. There were times when I did not answer my husband's calls and sometimes it made me miserable not to, but good in a way too. I *would* always return them, though, either later that day or the next day. He didnt' usually ask where I was or why I didn't have my cell with me, but if he did I would just reply that I was "out doing stuff".

What has been more effective (don't think I'm in recovery of anything..lol) has been just really moving on and getting my own life, which is something you've already begun. I think it makes him wonder if there's someone else sniffin' around, i think it makes him see me as an exciting and fun person, I think it makes him see me as capable of change, I think it makes him scared to lose me for good (for the decision to be OUT of his hands). I actually think he's really proud of me for some of the changes I've made. And for someone who so desperately needed to live the single-life..well guess who in the end is actually having more fun overall?

Be careful in making your wife wonder if there is someone else as it could backfire on you. I think it's okay to do that a little..but if she asks you outright, I would be honest with her. LIke if she says, "Who did you go out with?" If you went out with anyone, just say friends. But if she asks, "Did you go out with a girl you are seeing?" Tell her the truth.

I feel that your plan is a good one. Playing a little hard to get and not always being available is sometimes just what you need to do. I think it's already proving to be effective in your case. And the GREAT thing about all of this is that it's not manipulative at all. You actually ARE going out and doing stuff and feeling great about it...so it's not like you're lying about getting this great new life.

Well I did it, let her call 3 times without answering this morn, feels good and bad at the same time, she sounded a little flustered on the voicemail, just said "just called to see what you were doing but, I guess you have your phone turned off, talk to ya later, bye"

Hmm, wonder if its working, this not answering thing. I left work half a day today and just a few minutes ago X called me 2 more times and left another voicemail, sounded even more flustered than this morning, kinda dissapointed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This feels good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

PS, this is the first time she has called twice in one day in a very very long time.....

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Learning The Hard Way ]</small>

Heres the journal for the day, at least for now.

Started to read "Torn Asunder" yesterday, but really couldnt get into it, Ive read SAA, LB's, HNHN, and started this one, getting worn out with it all, I think somehow I am strting to get past her and all the mess I know it would be if she came back, thinking back Im wondering if she had an affair when we lived in Florida. We lived there for a year a couple years back. When we got home, at some point she told me about this guy who we knew and that he made a pass at her and put his hand on her crotch and tried to kiss her, this she told me before she even left the first time, now Im wondering if some guilt didnt play a part and she maybe figured shed tell me a little something to ease her mind, thats how she works. Now Im wondering if this isnt the third time, hell 1 was enough.

I am getting to the point of when I say I dont want her back, I dont get this intense feeling of fear and lonliness anymore, more like an excitement, I can go skydiving like I always wanted to, get my motorcycle etc, all the things she didnt want me to do for fear of my death. Kinda funny that right after an intense talking of me wanting to skydive, a local jewelry store owner was skydiving and perished when he hit a building and some trees, kinda got me thinking to, but I still want to do it.

I see that Mshulter started a thread for a journal, I hope it helps him like its helped me so far. even though I know others here read this sometimes, its nice to feel like others can share and maybe feel bonded with someone somehow, I think the feeling of being bonded with someone could really help recovery.

My faith in God is growing stronger everyday, and since I have actually worked at discovering faith, I feel so much more calm inside, its really amazing, Ive heard alot about this feeling but never felt it, at least in a long time.

I have a feeling X is going to stop over tonight after work, at first I thought I wanted that because I know I wont see ot talk to her over the weekend, well, after not taking these calls, Im not sure I want to be here if she comes, I almost feel like never wanting to see her again and Id be ok, as long as I didnt see her again. Orchid said in one of these posts that everytime we do have contact I get depressed, I see that now in a big way, thanks Orchid wherever you are!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Since I washed my paycheck and wont get another for 2 weeks now, I dont have the cash for bowling or anything, kinda bummed, no Christmas cash either, not like anyone was getting anything anyway, still nice to have some cash on ya though.

Anyway, I feel much stronger today and I am only getting stronger, X better hurry if she wants a chance is all I can say, if I wasnt a man Id go download "I will survive" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Ahh what the hell, Ill do it anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Since X has so much stuff left here I know I will have to see her again, although I feel Ill be ready for it then, I hope, seeing her take the rest may get me back to square one, chance Ill take tho, it wont be so hard the next time..

I need a woman who will see me for the nice guy I am.

For those of you with Torn Asunder, our R was like the one starting on page 80, the first one, "Mixing Spouse/Parent Roles: The Spouse As Parent", she was the parent, and it fits to a T.
I felt exactly like they state in there.

Well Im done for now, gotta think of something to do and a way to go do it so I can be gone for the rest of the day, should of stayed at work but oh well.

Da*m, X caught me at home just now, we talked alittle,she asked I didnt answer my phone, I told her I didnt feel like talking to her, I was to busy, she was here just about a half hour, asked what my plans were for tonight and I told her I wsa going out to sing! (Which is how we met, she asked me to sing a song for her) I forgot how much I love Karoke.

I told her about a few peoples situations here, talked very little about the R, I told her about the hope that some of the stories gave me, and I dont remember how it came out, but I told her in some way that, I used to have hope, she asked if I didnt have it anymore and I told her that it would be hard for anyone in my spot to keep hope alive, shes never here, that she chooses to not call or stop, I gotta tell you folks, I think she feels very bad about all this, she went and stood by the door for a few minutes before she left, then said, "well, i have to go", then stood there for a second, usually that was my cue to get up and ask her for a hug before she left, all I did this time was stay in my puter chair with my feet up and said "ok, cya later", she said "have fun tonight" and of course I said, "oh I will". At one point during this she asked what time I was going, I dont know why I always feel that maybe she wants to go do something when she asks that, but I know otherwise.

I told her I had tickets to the Browns game on Sunday and she said "jeez, all kinds of good things happening for you now, considering I could never get you to do anything", all I said back was, "well, before I didnt do anything for anyone, including me, I have found God and faith since then and realized it was time to grow up, I had to fall hard and figure out a way to pick myself up first I guess"

All in All, she seemed very, I dont know, like she really wants to come home but cant. Im not reading to much into it anymore, come or go I say, but Im not waiting around for you. Time for my shower...

Today I am having second thoughts about the way things were handled last night, or at least maybe the way things were said. I may have given the wrong impression to her that there was no hope left. That was not my intention.

If things work out, I think she would come home after the holidays, because she has the tree there, three kids, all the gifts shes already bought them, etc, and she is definately not strong enough to just up and leave that, I like to believe that it is because she doesnt want to hurt the kids etc... That still hurts, alot.

I hate the weekends!!!! Ive everything around the house I think I can, im going so crazy sitting here. My phone was shut off today because I washed my check <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Dont know when I will get the replacement, but was told about 2 weeks.

I feel so bad after seeing X last night, I dont know why, I felt good when I didnt answer her calls, then she popped in on me earlier than I thought she would, Im confused about our conversation. I dont know if when she asked about me still having hope as a way to guage how close I was to her being able to let go or something, or if she really wanted to just know. When she left she seemed a little depressed or something, I cant put my finger on if it was a show or not.
I need to separate myself from this I think, but, its so hard because Im confused about what is the right thing to do because I dont know how she really feels, and if I ask, she says she doesnt know either, which I guess I can understand, all I want is something to let me know that in "her" heart, there is still a chance, without a doubt.

I started wondering today if she bought me a gift or not, I know it doesnt really mean anything one way or the other, Im not buying her one. If she did buy me something Im wondering how to react, I see that others have posted about the same dillema, Im not sure what I will do, but I have thought about not accepting it, in a respectfully graceful way hopefully, by just telling her that under the current circumstances I wouldnt feel right accepting a gift from her. I dont believe she would have bought anything anyway so the point is most likely moot. But, ya never know I guess, maybe guilt, which is the other reason I wont accept it.

My mother read this journal and was upset I didnt include any of the good times we had when I was a kid, and that I portrayed her as an unloving mother, which I suppose maybe I did, but that was unintentional, I was merely stating facts that I remembered. During my growing up my father left a couple times and had A's, hes always come back, but thier R has never been good, both are CA's big time. I know she tried her best with the tools she had to keep it together and take care of 3 kids, and obviously I was a handful on my own. Im sure my actions didnt help her deal with things she needed to. So, there were many times that were good, but it is hard to think of them when you are depressed..

I was hoping that after yesterday and my telling X how with so little time beween us it was hard to have hope she would have stopped by today, maybe she will later, but I did kinda go and get a little buzzed last night and send a text when I got home, it said "Heres the deal, when u were here earlier, I may have given u the idea of no hope when u asked, there is some, but u need to call me now". Besides this being a demand, I think I sent this as a test also, maybe because I was confused about our talk. Maybe I wanted to see if she would call, also I worded it like I did because it is actually OMs cell and maybe I wanted to cause a little riff with the "when you were here" part, I think Im playing into the part of me that really truly believes she needs an easy way out, maybe I hope itll start a fight between them, maybe hell start letting the ugly controlling part out some. I dont know. Im probably just setting myself up for a big dissapointment, then again, its not like I try to cause alot of riffs between them, but I will take advantage of one if I see it, at the same time, I will do what I have been and that is just to carry on...

I haven't read your entire thread, just your last two posts, so hope I am not way off in my first gut reaction.

You are confusing. Are you in Plan A?

I ask because in the first post you said you told her you didn't answer the phone because you didn't feel like talking to her. ??????? What? This is kind of rude, don't you think?

In your second post you send her a note telling her to call you now! ???????? What? This is kind of rude too, don't you think?

First you must be clear in your own head about what you want and then you need to be consistent in your Plan. And being rude is a major LB.

Make sense?

Thanks Weaver and yes it certainly does make sense. I never actually spoke words to her that told her "i didnt feel like talking to you", when she asked "so you dont answer your phone anymore when I call?" I kinda shrugged my shoulders and said in words that i was busy, I guess it was my body language that I was trying to convey to her that I didnt want to talk to her, and I had deliberately not answered them, and that it had been difficult not to answer them. Just didnt want to try and explain all that in the other post, the second thing about telling her to call me now was definately wrong, I was drunk and see why now I have stayed clear of that, I do stupid stuff like that when Im drinking, which I hardly ever do anyway, and now I wont do it for awhile again, at least not as long as I am going through all of this.

I do need to figure out which way I want to go with this, why is that hard to figure out? I dont know, I think I do feel more calm recently, like maybe now would be a good time to plan A, i feel calm enough about things to not LB, as long as I dont drink and get all depressed. Thats what I feel Ive been trying to do, at least a few days now, till last night, so Ill start over today, I dont think it was a major screw-up, I hope.

I do need to figure out which way I want to go with this, why is that hard to figure out?

Yes, this would be the place to start. Figure out if you want your marriage or not.

If you do then get in Plan A, and do it well. You can not give mixed signals if you want your marriage. It was not a major screw up but was rude in my opinion and not a good Plan A. You need to be changing your behavior. That is the goal of Plan A, to become a person worthy of being married to.

How can you win your wife back if you don't even know if you want her or not.

You've got some introspection to do, and you need to figure out how you could have been a better spouse before the affair, and then you need to plan your strategy. And no more drinking until you are on an emotional keel.

First step -

What EXACTLY is it that you desire?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>What EXACTLY is it that you desire? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I desire in my soul is my W, or at least the person I know she truly can be.

I think what doesnt help with my indecision is the fact that I know the person she is inside. I dont want the thief, the liar, the CA. I want the warm, kind, good hearted person I know she wants to be. I have indecision because I know its not right to try and change somebody, but at the same time, Im not sure I am, I just want to let the real her out.

Most of you really dont realize how much different I am just in the short time all this has happened, I feel like I have done a 180, like I was almost at this point anyway and just busted out one day. Im not sure X would be able to handle my lifestyle, as far as honesty and me standing up for myself in life etc, are concerned.

Im afraid she will come home, expecting me to just let this all go and then realize Im not that person anymore, that things are radically different for me, personally, emotionally, and spiritually. Those things make me not want her to come home, I love her dearly, but I dont expect her to want to change, and if she does want it, shes not strong enough to apply what will be needed for me to be happy. I dont feel comfortable actually judging her like this, but that is the W I know.

I pray that she gets some strength from God, me, whoever she can, I hope she comes home knowing the work ahead and is ready to forge through it. Right now I think she knows it and is scared of it.

After thinking more about our conversation last night, Im wondering if maybe shes at the point of thinking she doesnt deserve to even come home. That since my life seems so great now, that maybe she was the cause of me not moving forward before. That if she did come back it would only hamper my life, the W I know who rather put herself through the pain of not coming back, than to come home and hold me down, I believe she has, or at least had that love before, and I know deep down its still there.

Sometimes I get myself so worked up about the things I see in her, or didnt see in her it gets me all discombobulated.

I know she loves me, I think she wants to come home already, I want to Plan A, and I want to make her happy for the rest of our lives and after. What Im having a hard time dealing with is knowing how she thinks. I feel she feels "stuck". A good Plan A should take care of that.

What I want is my W home.

Well yesterday was about the longest day of my life. Since X and I talked on Fri she hasnt called or stopped. This weekend was very hard on me emotionally, I dont know why, Christmas? Doubt it. Im starting to believe more and more that she is just trying to wear me down somehow, its working. Ill keep being nice when I do see her, but I am seriously getting close to the indifference Ive heard about here, I can feel it about some things already. Maybe not indifference, but acceptance. Things still hurt most of the time. Ok, all the time. Talk about codependancy and withdrawl.

I like to think that X is doing some soul searching, figuring things out for real, shes always said "Im not ready yet","probably not before Christmas" etc, which gives me the hope that after the holidays she may come home, but my hopes are not high on that. When I think of that though, it makes me feel like a sucker I guess, like, "Ill come home when its easier for me" or something. I dont know, Im still so confused sometimes, Im trying to work on me, but my thoughts always go back to her.

My Brownies lost yesterday 21-0 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> this year is so so sad for my team lol. Guess thats all for now.

Getting ready for work so this will be short.

X was here this morning, actually asked me to stand up so she could hug me, I hugged back, but not much, we talked a little, she told me that even though I cant see it, this is hard on her to, about Christmas and stuff. I took down my tree last night, to depressing for me, so there are no more Christmas decorations around here.

When it came time for her to leave she asked me to walk her to her car, then asked for another hug when she got in, she said she had to go and I said "yep", then turned and walked away. She still seems sad, but I still think its a show.

I told her that I noticed she hadnt moved into her dads, she of course blamed him by saying he was dragging his feet, so I replied, well like father like daughter, she always drags her feet.

Im really starting to not like her coming around, I feel so bad when she leaves. Its getting easier to not care about what is going on, but still very hard right now. I know in my heart shes not coming home, and if she does, right now Im not sure it would work anyway, Ive thought so long and hard on the person shes become, I know she knows what is expected of her to come home, and I know deep down shes not strong enough to do it.

I keep saying the same things here, but its because nothing is changing, I suppose I should just ask her to not come over anymore, it would be alot easier on me I know. This cant go on much longer as it is, I cant let it.

Update - been a few days. Nothing to update <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Same stuff different day. Havent seen X since Tuesday morn, or talked to her. I feel about the same, bored mostly. House is spotless, I shovel the sidewalk when its only powdered, etc.. This no car thing is a real bummer, nothing I hate more than being trapped in this house right now.

Everyday that goes by this gets easier, a few weeks ago I didnt believe that. I have flashes of X in my head and it gives me a very intense feeling of hopelessness and despair and then it goes away a few minutes later. I want to cry everytime I get one, they are getting fewer and fewer but one is to many. Anybody else get that?

Well, so far since this has started its been pretty boring compared to some of the stories here, no kids involved, no technical D, X isnt pregnant, this could be alot worse on me I suppose.

Back to Indiana Jones to keep my mind busy.......

Well, here it is Christmas Eve. Bah Humbug!

For those of you that know the story, I told gram about the CC incident that X pulled. X was not very happy, but I feel better. Gram was happy I called and we talked awhile, she said she could see X pulling something like that. Kinda took me back some, I thought about how long X has been the way she is, apparently when she was with her X, he did the same thing to her gram with all the bills and such in grams name,hmmm, I figure it was X the whole time and blamed her X when gram found out. Anyway, I feel a huge relief today. Like I can really move on now.

Maybe Im pushing her away on purpose? Dont want her but still scared to be alone? I dont know, still wrestling with that.

She told me today she would trade my puter for her truck, at first I told her no, then I thought about it and told her fine. This computer has been a huge problem for me since it came into our lives, and if Im not here on this, Ill be out actually having a life. I need the truck more than this thing.

I hope X opens her eyes someday and sees the person she is, Ive realized she has always been this way and most likely always will. Im glad my eyes were opened in all this though. Whew. Coulda messed up my whole life Yikes! (why do i want to "fix" her??) Im out....