it is only about 8 weeks since DD andNC, but i am getting discouraged. she says she is willing to try and i know that is a good sign, but i don't know if she "wants" to. i have been trying to meet her EN'S and avoiding LB'S, that part is actually pretty easy, it is the not expecting anything in return for a while that is hard. this morning i tried to cuddle w/ her in bed, she had her back to me we were just laying there talking about the kids,and i ask her if i was smothering her. she said she was trying not to feel that way but maybe just a little. i don't know how to take that. later this morning, i told her i was sorry i was smothering her, and she said she was sorry she felt that way. anyone have any ideas how i should take this? what should i do? thanks all arjdad

ARJDAD--I am a FWW, and at the beginning I also felt kind of smothered by my husband. If you really want to see her change, you have to stand back, give her space. wHEN my husband was colder with me, I looked for him more. If you are all over her, she might feel like she does not have to do any work in the marriage.
Dont do any love busters, but be kind of cold-almost indifferent with her. She will get more aware of what she might lose if she does not change her ways.

Take care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta

myrta, thanks for the info. backing off and acting cold and indifferent is hard to do. but from all the info i have received here and also from our MC, i think that is the thing to do. i am just afraid that will push her away more.i have been doing nearly everything around the house, cooking, cleaning, and laundry. should i back off of that a little also? she works at home, and i work full time. i am lucky to have a early shift so i am always home before the kids get home from school. by being indifferent, should i "not" try to meet her EN'S, and only avoid LB'S? any suggestions from someone who has been in her shoes is greatly appreciated. thanks, arjdad

Arjdad- Yes, I think you should back a bit of doing EVERYTHING for her. She is going to think that she deserves the world. The OM and YOU and everything else.
SHe has to be busy with other things , other than her work,even if she works at home.
Just back off as much as you can. My husband also says that it is very hard to do, but you can!!! Just think that it will pay you best if you do that!!

Good lUck!!

Myrta

arjdad, I think it's not uncommon for a ws to be willing, but not WANT to (or not be sure they want to). Does it matter? It can't go on like that forever if you're to have a good marriage and eventually "willing" will hopefully become "want".

That is what's happening with me. When I first left, my husband SAID he wanted to work on things and was willing...needed his space, blah blah blah.

Very quickly things turned to not being willing OR to wanting. We had agreed not to divorce until June, otherwise I think I'd probably be divorced right now. The one thing I kept in mind through all this was that I KNEW KNEW KNEW that he loved me and that it basically boiled down to him thinking that things could not change and get better.

Then it turned to willing, but not wanting to. These are not all willy-nilly and lightening quick changes..except for the first change to not wanting or willing...it's been a process and I STRONGLY feel that Plan A has been the catalyst.

Now it has changed to willing and wanting to a little. That's where I'm at right now. He has started talking about a future together ("if we don't divorce..."), HE asked me for the Harley numbers (hasn't called yet, though).

I don't feel that "willing but not wanting" is a bad thing because who cares as long as it LEADS to wanting?

So you don't lose hope, let me just add some things about my situation as I don't post much so you probably haven't read.

We've been separated since june. He lives in puerto rico and I live in florida so it's not like we can just go out to dinner a couple of times a week. we talk on the phone a couple of times a week and visit every other month. We do not have children together so don't have that tie. Nor do we own property together. The ONLY thing holding our marriage together at ALL is love. We have nothing else to tie us to each other.

Imagine how difficult it has been to Plan A for me? Stopping LB's and judgements was easy as we talked often enough for that. But he was not really able to see the changes I was making. I'd tell him in a roundabout way (not directly), but of course it's difficult for someone to believe something they're being told rather than seeing it themselves. But it's working, nonetheless.

I do not know if we'll make it or not..I'm inclined to believe that we might not, but that's really hard to say. BUT...my commitment and my plan A has made a HUGE difference and if we don't make it, it will be because too much time after D-Day passed before either of us started trying change, and the distance we have from each other now. But it certainly won't be because my plan A was not effective!

arjdad,

Myrta is absolutely right with her advice to you. By being smothering, you are putting pressure on her when she is still in withdrawl from the OM. So back off and let her know that when she feels the need to be held, that you are going to be there for her. Show confidence and not needyness and she will respond to you.

TMCM

Not to threadjack, but doesn't this go against plan A? Trying to meet her EN's and be the best that you can be. If affection is one of her top EN's but she doesn't like you showing it. What do you do? Arjdad, my WW is the same as yours, actually a little worse. Mine doesn't like me even touching her really. Says she needs space!!!

myrta, thanks for the encouragement! i will start backing off today. i hope to keep you posted on how it is going. thanks for taking time to try to help me out. i am still afraid of pushing her away, but like i have read here so many times, you can't use logic in a situation like this sometimes. ithink ican.. i think ican.. i think i can...thanks arjdad

TMCM, i have read alot of your replies and have much respect for you. thanks for the input, i do think this is the thing to do, and it makes it a little easier when people in "our" shoes agree. i WILL back off starting today. again thanks for the help, arjdad

native, that is what i was wondering to, about going against plan a. but they say you should only try to meet her EN'S that she is willing to "let" you meet. tough situationto be in, sorry to meet you this way. it seems we're "2 peas in a pod" so to speak. i hope to keep up w/ you and your sitch, maybe we can encourage each other along the way. by the way, i don't think my wife really likes me touching her right now either. stay strong and don't give up, arjdad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
Not to threadjack, but doesn't this go against plan A? Trying to meet her EN's and be the best that you can be. If affection is one of her top EN's but she doesn't like you showing it. What do you do? Arjdad, my WW is the same as yours, actually a little worse. Mine doesn't like me even touching her really. Says she needs space!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as Plan A goes, here is what Dr Willard Harley has to say about it:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Notice he says the BS agrees to meet the WS EN AFTER the affair has ended not during. This makes perfect sense and it is ludicrous to beleive that the foggy WS will open him/herself up to the BS meeting those EN when the OP is doing that already. So aside from financial support and domestic support, you can't fulfill the other EN until after the WS ends the affair and ends all contact with the OP forever.

I hope this clears up the confusion and frustration of trying to meet EN during Plan A.

TMCM

TMCM, my wife's A has ended, but what about not meeting EN'S while she is in w/drawal? she doesn't mind me doing everything around the house obviously, but she is not ready to either give or receive affection. this as you can imagine, is killing me. thanks for your input, arjdad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arjdad:
TMCM, my wife's A has ended, but what about not meeting EN'S while she is in w/drawal? she doesn't mind me doing everything around the house obviously, but she is not ready to either give or receive affection. this as you can imagine, is killing me. thanks for your input, arjdad</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may want to view the affair as a serious vehicle collision in which both of you were injured and are going through therapy at this moment. It is unrealistic to expect that both of you will recover at the same rate. It's going to take patience and understanding on the part of BOTH of you to get to the point where you can enjoy meeting each others EN. In the meantime, do your best to follow the The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage., especially The Rule Of Time. This last one will help the two of you to emotionally reconnect like you did when you were dating prior to marrying each other. Please give this some thought.

TMCM

TMCM, that is exactly how i feel. i told our MC, that i am ready to forgive and try to rebuild and move on to make our m better then ever, but MC said wife is not there yet. healing time is different. i read the 4 rules and they make sense to me. i know i just have to give her time and space and be patient. nobody said this was going to be easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . reminds me of the roller coaster ride when i was a kid. it made me want to puke also. thanks for helping arjdad

ok TMCM, i just told my wife a little while ago that i was sorry if i had been smothering her the last couple of days, and that if and when she ever wanted to be touched or held again, i would be here for her. wish me luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . we are leaving soon to watch our kids in a christmas program at church, so i will not be back on for a while, but if anyone has more words of wisdom out there, feel free to share them w/ me, as i can use all the help i can get. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> thanks all,, arjdad

ARJDAD-It took me some time to completely give myself to my husband. I really did not enjoyed too much his affection,attention,love. It made me uneasy actually.
I think that while the "exorcism" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> (I dont know if I spelled it right)completes itself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I just could not accept his love!!! I had to rid my mind and body of the memories of the OM, to be completely at ease with my husband.
But when my husband was at his most attentive and loving to me, those were the times, that I pulled away from him more. It really bothered and made me feel worst that he was so loving after me being so ugly and bad to him.
I hope you can continue the non-smothering mode and I am sure your wife will "wake" up sooner from her fogginess and confussion.
How was your children's play at church?? I hope you had a good and peaceful time as a family.

Myrta

myrta, thanks for the reply, and all the help you are giving me. could it be that she has a guilty conscience that is making it hard for her to show or accept affection? i am doing pretty good with backing off and trying to be cold/ indifferent, and it almost feels like i can tell a difference the first day. maybe wishful thinking, it's hard to tell. she is swamped w/ work and is acting somewhat like her world is crumbling around her. is this a good sign? thanks for asking about the kids program, it was great! the wife and i always get along good when we are out, in fact almostall the time. it is like we are good friends, good roomates and good parents, just nothing more <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> i will keep trying tho, i love her to much to quit now. thanks for listening, arjdad

arjdad,
I'm also a FWW. DD was in May of this year. While I was in the fog (for over 6 months!), I didn't want to be smothered either. I actually was afraid of any contact. It brought up too much--too much guilt, too much of a reminder of my loss, etc. What would have helped me enormously would have been if H could have been able to hold my hand and not look for more. I had to bring it up in MC and he agreed to try to back of for up to a year. It helped.

Now we're starting to be more affectionate (I should say *I* am), but it took a long time, and a lot of sad, bad feelings to get over before that.

Keep up the good work! Sounds like you're doing fine. Hope you're both enjoying the day!

CC

arjdad,
I just wanted to add that I TOTALLY agree with everything Myrta has said (good job, Myrta!). It takes time to not only go through the withdrawal, but to then deal with the guilt. Things between you two have to move very slowly. She'll know you care and love her--you're showing the most gracious, loving act by remaining with her! She just has to be in a place where she feels she can reciprocate that love. Have patience! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

buttercup, thanks for the encouragement. i think it really helps to hear from FWW, to help me put what she is going thru in perspective. i imagine there are others reading this post that appreciate the help also. right now, my wife does not seem to even want to hold hands. i can't imagine how i would feel if she reached out and took my hand. oh well, patience. i told her yesterday that if/when she wants/needs to be touched or held, i would be here for her. was this a good thing to say? i know it has only been 8 weeks tuesday, and i can't rush things, but sometimes i just dont know what to do. today, i was actually thinking "i cant do this, i should just throw in the towel", but thanks to you and myrta, i find the strength to go on. thank you. i hope someday i can help others on this site instead of just always asking for help myself. any more advice appreciated, arjdad