buttercup, also, i just wanted to see how you two were doing in recovery? i hope all is well with you. thanks arjdad

ARJDAD--I am glad you had a good time at the play with your wife and kids. That to me always brings family closer.
At the beginning I did not liked my husband's touch. Dont know if it was combination of guilt, of trying to be completely over OM. But I know for a fact, that my husbands showing of love and affection made me so uncomfortable. I just did not wanted. I did not want any attention from him.
I just could not believe also, that he still wanted me after hurting him so much.!!! I did not believe him actually!! I thought he just wanted to "win" that he wanted to ruin my relationship with OM, to then leave me by myself!!! Of course that was not the case, but then I believed that.
Now I believe what he says, his love, his desire is very sweet and I am so thankful that he has such love for me. That he had forgivven me.
Your wife will get there, it might take her 3-4 months,maybe more but she will get there.
Just be cool, indifferent, and you will see!!!

Best of luck

Myrta

myrta, i have been wondering if my wife needs to forgive herself? i have told her since day 1 that i can for give her. we had MC 2 days after DD and the MC ask her what emotions she was feeling. she was crying and said "amazement". she couldn't believe that i would be willing to forgive her, she said she didn't think that she would forgive me if the roles were reversed. i don't want her to be amazed and in awe, i just want her to forgive herself so we can move on.3-4 months seems like a long time, but i am already 2 months in. thanks for your encouragement, it has really helped today. arjdad

Arjad:

I am Myrta's H:

This whole thing is a process and it may take two years. I don't know about you, but I developed a severe case of sperm competition and wanted to have SF ALL THE TIME! This is hard on us males because at the same time were are disgusted with the behavior of the WW. This ambivalence of wanting the WW very badly, but also thinking that divorce may be the inevitable final outcome is terrible.

BTW, my wife was able to have a lot of SF with me shortly after D-day. This lasted 3-4 weeks and then she became depressed and lost her libido. This bad part of the withdrawal lasted about 2-3 months. However, she did not let me know she was going thru it.

In the meantime I noted that if I did not have SF with regularity my mood became very BAD and somewhat irrational. I guess we also have our own fog following D-day. I have to congratulate my wife because many times she gave me SF when she was not up for it. It is not pleasant to have SF that way, but I was truly desperate. The mornings were particularly bad if I did not get SF. I don't want to sound like sex is everything for me. I am quite normal about it, but in essence SF was always a good component of our marriage.

Early on there were many misunderstandings because we indulged into DJs and assumed we knew what the other spouse was thinking.

In her foggy state my wife made contact with OM and lied about it. To her credit the contact was non-romantic and basically was a way to transition into permanent NC. During this time my wife learned many things about the true personality of OM and in a way this was beneficial. Remember, that OMs tend to present a fictitious personality during the affair.

Lastly, I strongly believe we are in recovery and at this point have no ongoing issues.

Nevertheless the relationship is not as before and it will take time before it becomes completely natural.

Recovery is possible when the WW is willing to go NC and work on the marriage. I was lucky to have that. It also helps to have an OM with severe shortcomings since that makes the BH much more attractive to the WW. I will say the WW will not see these shortcomings right away because of the fog. Remember--- up to D-day OM was the greatest man on the planet. It takes time and complete emergence from the fog before they can see the real OM.

I know you feel defeated because your WW gave her heart to the OM. but don't despair. This is all part of the package in affairs and sometimes WWs will fall for men that do not hold a candle next to the H. What I am trying to say is that the affair was not about you been a loser or anything like that. In fact, the true loser is the OM who has less integrity than you do. This is something your WW will realize in time.

My wife is a VERY SMART woman and even though she went through the fog she was able to see things for what they are very quickly.

Good luck!

ARJDAD--Its easier say than done!!! Its so hard to forgive yourself after doing such horrible act to your spouse. And its even harder to believe that your spouse, forgives you for it.
So its kind of a no-win situation at the beginning. The feelings inside of your are so contradictory, that you just dont know what you are thinking!!!
I have not forgivven myself for what I did, but I am trying to better my marriage ,myself from what I did. I dont feel paralized ,like JL, would say into doing something to make our marriage better.
I have such good husband, and now I have to make myself each day more loving,better wife to him.
I can function much better with him, he is much happier I can see. I dont have this dark cloud hanging over my mind,over my head.
I can be more loving,more playful with him, as of before, I just could not do that. It felt wrong before, now, its natural and I want to do it!!

Myrta

stanley and myrta, your story inspires me. thank you both for sharing with me. i know it is a long road ahead, but with help from people like you, i think we are going to make it. time willtell, i guess. do you think it would be a good idea to encourage her to join me on this site? even if she just hovers and reads? thats all i did at first, and it helped me. at least she could hear from other women who are going thru or have been in her same situation. right now, she really doesn't have anyone she can talk to about it. except our MC and a girl friend she has in another state. of course that is only on the computer to. she works at home, and this other lady works "with" her for the same company. no one in our town knows about her A except MC and a guy that i work with. i had to talk to someone, and he is a really good friend. i know he would never tell anyone, besides we work at a big plant and have no mutual friends outside of work.anyway sorry for rambling on, any more encouragement/advice i would gladly take. i am ready and willing to learn how to recover and hopefully make our M better then ever. arjdad

myrta, earlier on this post you said i should back off and let her do some things. i have a question. since this happened, i have taken off of work quite a bit to take kids to dr. and other errands to help her out. part of the deal when she went to work at home, was that she would always be available to do that , and stay home with them when they were sick so i didn't have to miss work.now she is swamped with work and is going to try to work all night. our 15 year old d has a ortho. appt in the morning. i was plammimg on just making her handle it, you know back off and let her do some stuff, but i feel bad because she will be really tired. i must say tho, it is partly her own fault. she is such a good worker with good work ethic, they are giving her to much work,but she doesn't want to let them down. today she did say she was going to have to tell them she couldn't do it. i don't know if she will tho.i do think backing off might have a pretty quick effect on her. she knows i have been doing everything. but at least she says thank you like she means it. i guess thats a start.so what do you think? should i take off work and take d to dr. or make wife "handle" it? arjdad

ARJDAD-- What kind of work your wife does??? I dont know, I dont think you should be missing work all the time. If she works from home, she could take one or two hours in the morning to take your daughter to the orthodontic appointment.
I think you are spoiling her too much!!
Do you think that maybe she is taking extra work, to be busy, and avoid you?
Tell her that you had missed too many days of work, and that she needs to do this. Be firm with her. You probably feel like she is going to be angry and reject you more, but thats not going to happen.
I think its a good idea for her to come and read and post if she wants to. She can see that there is a lot of women and men just like her. Sometimes you think you are alone with your problems, that they are unique. This is so common, it amazes me.
She can e-mail me also, and she and I could talk as well.
I hope this helps some!!

MYRTA

myrta, she is a medical transcriptionist. she transcribes for one company, and recently started doing q.a. for another one. i dont think she wants to work this many hours, but right now she is slow on the learning curve. i have wondered before about her using her home office as her own little getaway place. we also have MC tomorrow afternoon, and i don't want her to be to tired there. part of me says "go to work" and part of me says "take d to dr." i am afraid wife will be to tired to drive, altho i just remembered, our d drives now, so mom would just have to ride along. but then she will be tired at MC, but if she is going to be up anyway, whats the diff. right? thanks for helping arjdad...... if she did want to e-mail you, how do i get your e-mail address?

ARJDAD--Hmm, and she is going to stay up the whole night?? If she is going to be transcribing the whole night, for sure, she will be dead tired in the morning.
But I still think that she could take your daughter to the appointment.
How were things today with you and her?

Myrta

myrta- things today were pretty good i guess. we always go to church as a family. on our way home we stopped for lunch to take home. we had to get it "to go" because she needed to get home to work. she worked all afternoon,the kids and i hung out downstairs playing video games, t.v. and homework. we went back to church to nite, the kids did the play again for those who missed it last nite, they all did a great job. especially ours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> as soon as we got back home, she went back to work.[after tucking our 6year old son in] she has been in her office since then. she is a good mom, she just needs to work less.tomorrow nite our 13y.o. d has a b-ball game, and she /we never miss them. so, make her take d to dr.? sorry i am skipping around,back to our day. i am trying to be cold/indifferent, so while she was working, i didn't go in her office 5-6 times like usual just to make small talk and see her. didn't even offer to get her a refill on her drink, something i have been doing alot. i think the pressure is getting to her with work and us and all, i just dont know if that is a good thing? any thought? thanks, arjdad

Arjdad:

Your story is of great interest to me. Like your wife Myrta also met the OM thru classmates.com. It would be nice if we could sue those people for causing so much devastation! You said they only had 3-4 physical encounters, that is good news. Frequent physical contact really solidifies the emotional attachment. If that continues then there is a chance the WW may want to leave the marriage. IN my case I caught my wife just in time. Otherwise she could have left the marriage. The last emails I intercepted suggested they wanted to have a meeting to decide their future. I say this to you so you realize how dangerous these As are to a marriage.

I have a few questions:

1. How was the A discovered?
2. What is the status of the OM?
3. Does anyone in your family know?
4. Have you set boundaries?
5. Do you know for sure NC is in place?
6. Did you change all phone numbers? Email?

BTW, when my wife denied me SF I also told her: "If you want SF you have to come and get me". Just like you did! I felt it was degrading to ask for it and not get it.

At this point the MOST IMPORTANT THING is NC! I ask my wife about contact on a daily basis.

<small>[ December 12, 2004, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Stan-ley,

I haven't been at the message board too much lately and I missed the story behind the subtle name adjustment .....

I hope you don't mind me hi-jacking this thread to highlight a comment that you made:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I ask my wife about contact on a daily basis.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I find that fascinating and would love to hear Myrta's take on that. Is she open and receptive to the idea of being asked on a daily basis? How long do you think you will continue to ask on a daily basis? I'm so curious, as this was exactly the opposite take that my H went with. He has never asked me about NC. I am curious to ask him why or why not, and plan to do so when I get off-shift.

Thanks for the "thinker," Stan-ley!

FH:

As per JL's recommendation I am trusting that Myrta will not re-start contact with OM behind my back. I am not concerned anymore about checking caller Ids, ect, ect. JL said--------------------- if she restarts again there is your answer and you will know what to do----------------- divorce. Whether I trust her or not has no effect on what Myrta may ultimately do---------- So I have decided to trust her.

When I ask on a daily basis whether OM tried to contact her I am showing my insecurity of perhaps the fact that I feel Myrta may not tell me if OM tries to make contact. I suppose she may omit this info to protect OM from my anger. I really see no other reason---- but, from day one Myrta was always concerned and worried that I would pick up the phone and talk to OM. She was very protective of OM and wanted to shield him from my anger. Once I mentioned the idea of calling OM’s ex-wife to let her know about what OM was up to and Myrta went ballistic.

So there you have it:

Some insecurity from my part and perhaps the idea that Myrta may not tell me when OM calls again . Not so much because she wants to get it on, but because she wants to protect OM.

I know we are not out of the woods at 6.5 months past D-day and the fact that last contact was 3 months ago (or so I hope). I am not fooling myself into thinking that she has completely forgotten OM.

FAITHFULLYHOPING---I can give you the answer you were curious about!!!

I dont like it at all that my husband asks me on a daily basis. It makes me in a really bad mood everytime he asks. I think, I am almost sure that I would tell him if any contact is made. But he does not trust me enough yet!!
I also wonder how long he is going to keep on asking me this!!!

MYrta

ARJDAD--I can understand your worries about your wife getting too much pressure with everything that its going on.
But I think that your kids things are not pressure things, they are just normal everyday things. As a matter of fact, doing those simple facts, could relax her a bit. It will divert her mind from work and your problems as a couple.

Its really good that you do so many activities with your children. When they are young and they have lots of school and church activities its the best!! So enjoy them as much as you can.

I did not know your wife,like myself, fell for an old classmate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . But I dont think what my husband is suggesting can be done. To sue them because some people get involved!! That would be crazy.

I hope your marriage counseling appointment goes well today.

Take Care!!

MYRTA

FH:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think, I am almost sure that I would tell him if any contact is made. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is your answer--------- did you see the word "almost"?

I know it is annoying to ask, but NC is so CRUCIAL! If there is contact there will never be recovery. Right now I am playing 2nd string while my wife forgets OM. I don't plan to be 2nd string all my life. As long as there is contact------ no matter how sporadic things will not move forward. Right now I can handle the 2nd string role as OM is no serious competition (except in my wife's mind) to me, but I cannot do this forever.

You also have to realize that my wife ended the affair in completely different circumstances than you did. You spontaneously dump OM; in Myrta's case her hand was forced.

myrta- thanks for the encouragement. because she stayed up all night working, i don't know if she will go to mc w/ me today or not. i worry about her driving tired,it is about 30 minute drive to pick me up from work. i ask her this morning if she was going, and she said " i dont know". i got a little mad and just said," well, let me know, i gotta go" and left for work. i hope i wasnt to short w/ her. but i will go w/out her if i have got to, i need to talk to mc.hopefully, she is realizing that she needs to change her priorities, it is getting old feeling like i am the only one trying...... stanley, i have wondered myself about how things would/could be different depending on how the a ended. i also caught my wife, and her hand was forcad. i think it would be easier if they realized thier mistake on thier own and ended it themselves., arjdad

ARJDAD- At the beginning of our recovery, my husband also thought he was the only one trying. But I was too, but not as intense as he was. It might seem to you like she is not trying, but I am sure she is.
It is a very difficult task to do the transition back to the husband. It takes time, the emotions, the guilt, everything have to settle inside of her. YOu are sure she is in NO CONTACT?? Because if she is, then all your efforts and the marriage counseling its for nothing!!
I hope she decides to go with you to the marriage counseling appointment. Maybe she can take a power nap before going! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MYRTA

P.S. (Even though my "hand" was forced to end the
affair, I am completely receptive to my
husband and I am 100% working to restoring
our marriage)

Arjdad:

Myrta did not go to the 1st MC jumping with joy. At the onset she thought all MBs were a bunch of fools. The fog is thick at the beginning; Myrta will be the 1st one to tell you.

You did not tell me anything about the OM. Is this OM a real threat to the marriage? What is your take on this? There is something called an exit affair and you need to know if this is the case or not. If this is not an exit type affair you need to put your foot down and drag her to MC. Does your wife wants to stay married?

What does your wife have to say about your children knowing the truth about the affair?

At this point your priorities are NC, counseling, and communication with wife. Make her feel safe with you.