</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">P.S. (Even though my "hand" was forced to end the
affair, I am completely receptive to my
husband and I am 100% working to restoring
our marriage) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta:

You are likely among the most motivated and cooperative FWWs on this board (FH is also exceptional) and I thank God everyday for that. As you know I simply ask you everyday “what is new.” I do it only once and that is the extent of my concern regarding communication from OM. At this point NC is the only thing that matters to me, you know that quite well. I can handle everything else quite well and I am happy that you are my wife. I will never leave you unless you betray me. Otherwise, I am 110% into you and the marriage.

I think FH is looking at my concern for NC from her perspective. Remember, she ended the affair on her own and then told the H. By then she was no longer interested in continuing the affair and NC was probably easy for her. In our case the affair was in a steep crescendo with no end in sight. You had difficulty maintaining NC and kept quiet about it.

You once told me that I was too trusting and that blind faith was ultimately not a good thing. You always said that it was better to trust, but to be alert and to verify. So now it is like the old pacts between the USA and USSR regarding the proliferation of nuclear weapons-- trust and verify.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Whether I trust her or not has no effect on what Myrta may ultimately do---------- So I have decided to trust her.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for replying, Stan-ley and Myrta. Stan-ley, I have to beg to differ with your comment above. Somewhat, anyway. I believe that SAYING that you trust her and actually trusting her are two different things. When you question her every day, it belies what you say about trusting her. Checking in and double-checking could lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy of a wife who IS willing to hide some OM contact from you. (The rationale is, "Why not? He doesn't believe me today and he won't believe me tomorrow, so why not just lie about it?" Maybe that's where Myrta's "almost" comment comes from. I might also venture a guess that the "almost" comment comes from the fact that Myrta cannot control what the OM does, so perhaps she cannot give you a black and white answer to your black and white question. It's been a long time since I had any contact with my FOM, but I still remember the surprise and confusion I felt when BOTH men were demanding my loyalty and trust. Yes, I was foggy, but long after I am out of the fog, I can see where Myrta is coming from.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You also have to realize that my wife ended the affair in completely different circumstances than you did. You spontaneously dump OM; in Myrta's case her hand was forced.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True, but I think that being discovered is being discovered. Once that happens, EVERYONE'S hand is forced in one sense or another. Myrta and I both had to look at ourselves, our husbands, and our marriages. Regardless of which party brought the information forward first, the recovery process is the same.

ARJDAD, I realized that I hijacked your thread with my conversations with Stanley and Myrta. I would like to comment on this that you said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i also caught my wife, and her hand was forcad. i think it would be easier if they realized thier mistake on thier own and ended it themselves., arjdad
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I ended my A by my choice and on my terms, that is true. I would not necessarily say that was easier than being caught and having my hand forced by my H. I like to think that the only difference between myself and your wife (and Myrta, for that matter) is that I was one step ahead of them in the recovery process at the moment that I confessed to my H. Nothing more, nothing less. As I just said to Stanley, recovery is still the same; I just happened to start earlier than Myrta. I went through withdrawal and the "fog" like all FWW's. (Please keep in mind I'm well over a year past my DDay, too.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that SAYING that you trust her and actually trusting her are two different things. When you question her every day, it belies what you say about trusting her. Checking in and double-checking could lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy of a wife who IS willing to hide some OM contact from you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FH:

I can see why your H is more trusting than I. You volunteer info without been asked. In my case any info I received was extracted with questions. It took three weeks before Myrta admitted to contact with OM. Then she came clean and told me everything about post D-day contact. Then OM wrote a letter via US post mail and she never told me about it until I asked: "Was there a letter?". If she had spontaneously showed me the letter I would not be asking about NC on a daily basis. Does that make sense?

BTW, I have to add that Myrta was not doing anything ilicit during all this time. She was trying to keep this away from me so I would not feel bad. However, in the end it is best to be radically honest. Otherwise, I would not be asking----"anything new?"

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Stan-ley,
Hi! I haven't spoken to you for a while, so I thought I'd quickly pop in here and give you my answer (I'm runnin' out the door, on a date with my H in a sec!). I agree with FH, that it's not a good idea to continually question Myrta about contact with the FOM. Myrta seems to be pretty forthright in her actions since D Day. If he ever tried to contact her, I'm sure she'd tell you. Try to stop worrying so much about it!

Since I came forth and told my H about the A on my own, he said that he trusts that I'd tell him things from hereon out. And, I do! He knows everything concerning the A, and knows if I've heard from her or about her. I'm relishing the closeness we're once again sharing! Speaking of which, I'd better run. Have a good day!

CC

Stan-ley,

It's very difficult, from the WW perspective, to decide where, when and how to deliver information. When I confessed to my A, I intended to just purge absolutely everything to him and be free of all my guilt. It didn't actually work out that way because after a certain point he had reached his saturation level and didn't want to hear any more. I was desperate for three days to tell more and more and more, but he did not want to listen. I could not understand, at the time, why he was reacting the way he did. I felt that the best and only way to deal with things was to purge. I felt by NOT telling him some things, I was still lying to him.

Looking back at that time, I wasn't sensitive to his feelings. I felt I knew exactly how it should all be dealt with. I had read (a little bit) at this site, and I took the "brutal honesty" concept to heart.

For the personalities involved, it wasn't the best thing at the time. Eventually, he was able to handle listening to everything that I had to say. But it wasn't to my immediate satisfaction.

But those are the two personalities that were involved in my scenario. Your scenario is reversed in many ways. You want it all laid out. Myrta is playing her own cards the way she feels they should best be played. (Not that this is a game -------- please don't take that the wrong way.) The point is it's different personalities and different ways to communicate.

The question is ............ is anybody wrong in the way they communicate?

I'd like to ask Myrta if she would have told you about that letter in the mail eventually. Or really if ANY of the things that you feel she has been slow to reveal would eventually be revealed?

myrta- i called my w a while ago to apoligise for the way i left this morning, and i told her i knew she was tired and if she couldnt go today i understand. she seemed very appreciative and ask me to schedule MC for this friday.i guess that is a good sign. as far as NC, i just have to trust her, she is WAY above me on computers, and if she wanted to hide things from me on it, she/we know that she could. i may sound crazy and naive, but you have to start trusting again sometime.from conversations we have had w/MC,i feel certain she has had NC. THE om'S wife had emergency surgery 3 weeks before DD, life threatening tumor, so i never told her. i have proof that i printed off our computer, and i thot about contacting him and telling him if he ever contacted my wife again, i would tell his whole family. but i really dont think there is C, so do you think i should tell him that? remember, he is in fla., we are in kansas. by the way, when i called home earlier, she seemed upset, i dont know if it was lack of sleep, overwelmed at work, or maybe my cool, indifferent attitude the last couple of days. maybe the fog is lifting? thank youall for the support arjdad

FH,- i have no problem w/you hijacking. i can use all the help i can get! i think it helps me most to talk w/FWW to get thier perspective. i guess i am still wondering, how long the fog and w/drawal? i know you cant answer that, but i still wonder. tomorrow is 8 weeks since DD, and the A lasted 15 months. thanks for your input, arjdad

ARJDAD--Wow, you wife has to realize what a sweet, understanding man you are. I am sure she knows it, but sometimes we tend to take for granted our spouses.
I know that when Iget overly tired, I get very irritated , almost angry. So, she probably is wired with tiredness. Its an excellent sign that she is willing to move the appointment to Friday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
ARJDAD- I know that everytime my HUSBAnd told me that he was going to call the OM, I got so angry and defensive. I think thats not necessary if he is so far in Florida and you in Kansas. I am sure he got the point that its over between both of them. But of course, if you know that he contacts her again, by all means, tell the wife, dont even alert him, just do it!!!And dont tell your wife either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Good luck!!

MYRTA

arjdad:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">remember, he is in fla., we are in kansas. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife's OM is long distance too. It does not matter. With emails, IMs and the phone the affair can be as hot as ever and when they meet in person all the foreplay has already been done long distance. Some folks are very susceptible to Internet romance.

You are correct, at one point one has to trust. If my wife really wanted she could have continued the affair despite all efforts from my part. OM offered to send her a cell phone and I would have never known about their phone calls and secret meetings. It is a no win situation and one has to trust. Just set a line in the sand; let her know there is a price to pay if she hooks up again with OM. It is not a threat, but a way to let her know you still have your dignity and you can only put up with so much.

The withdrawal can be three weeks up to two years--------- Everybody is different.

myrta, thanks for all your help. i went to MC alone, and it went well. the MC is pro-marriage, and she and i agree on almost everything. in fact, one time my wife told me it seems like its two on one sometimes.anyway i told her about MB and she is very glad i fdound some support. not as glad as i am tho <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> MC also said that she thought wife and i seemed more connected last week then she had ever seen us. i guess that is a good sign. the wife is not feeling well tonite, so i am going to b-ball alone. don't know if it is lack of sleep or partly guilty conscience, but she has a upset stomach. i stopped by the store on the way home and got her some chicken noodle soup. hope she is better tomorrow. she did tell me that she was going to tell her two bosses that she wants to cut down on her work load. i KNOW thats a good sign. again, thanks, arjdad........stanley,i am glad to hear you say that about trust. i know everyone is different, but i really think i can trust her now. if i find out different... well i will cross that bridge when i get there. thanks for the help...arjdad p.s. good luck to you two <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ARJDAD==I am glad your mc session went well even though you went solo. Are you still going to go on Friday too?
When I was coming out of the fog just like your wife, I had many stomach aches (ulcers), my stomach was upset a lot, because I was so extremely tense.
I hope she feels better tomorrow and she gets some good sleep tonight.
I think MB its great too. So many good people here, its amazing! Thats one good thing that came out of having the affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . At least you get to exchange posts with so many good human beings.

Take care!


MYRTA

myrta, i think you are great to! thanks for offering me such encouragement. it really means alot to me. and yes we are going to MC friday. i just sent my wife a long e-mail that i know she wont see until the morning when i am at work. basically i told her i forgive her and i want her to forgive herself as well. i told her i know she is a good person who did a bad thing. i told her i knew we had problems before the A, and i hope now we can address them and work them all out and have a better M then ever. i also told her i was backing off to give her more space, and that we can take this at her pace. i finished by saying i am here for you whenever you are ready.did i "kiss up" to much? arjdad

ARJDAD- Thats good you sent your wife that e-mail. I am sure she will appreciate it, even if she does not say it. My husband used to write me lots of e-mails shorhtly after DD. Even though I was in my foggy state, some of them gave me a tingling in my belly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
Another thing that you can do also, dont tell her step by step everything you are doing. Keep a bit of mystery around you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . She will wonder about you more.LOL

Good luck to you! Going to sleep now, I am dead tired!!

MYRTA

myrta, you are so encouraging to me! thank you. i know i should not tell her all my plans and try to be mysterios, but it is hard to do. i just want to tell her that i am willing to do just about anything to get her back. i do think sometimes it seems like the fog is lifting,it has been 8 weeks today.i sent her another e-mail this morning just a short note to tell her i hope she is feeling better and i hope she has a great day. she is still in bed when i leave for work. i gotta get back to work now, thanks for your kindness, arjdad

ARJDAD--- I Hope you are having a good day so far, even though is just starting. You must be in central time, so its earlier for you.

Did your wife get the e-mail already?? Did she called you?

MYRTA

ARJDAD---LOL, it looks like we posted at the same time!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your wife knows already that you are willing todo anything to get her back. But if your say it too much, she will think that she has to do nothing for the relationship. YOu have to let her know that it takes two to tango!!! Not just you but she has to do her part too!!

You are too sweet, thats the problem here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

MYRTA

myrta-- i know you are right that i need to back off some so she will have to show some effort to, but it is so hard. since i have been doing this all along now, i am afraid if i quit she will think i dont care. i know she wont, but i worry a lot. i am in central time, and i have to be at work at 5 a.m. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but at least i get off early enough to be home when the kids get home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> also , when i am at work, i can only use computer for work except lunch and breaks. thats why sometimes the long time between post. our MC thought it would be good for my wife to join us here even if she just hovered at first. i think it would help her also, because she has no one to talk to.literally, she doesn't talk about it to anyone except MC once a week. if she wanted to talk to you one on one, would you? help her understand what she is going thru and realize she is not alone? if so, how do we do that? thanks for all your help and kindness.by the way, i may be to sweet now, but if i had been all along, i probably would not be here. i would have rather not made new friends this way, but under the circumstances, i am so glad for MB.. again, thanks, arjdad

ARJDAD--- NO, I Dont believe you are sweet now, and not before. Thats the problem with some of us, we have it really good, and we take it for granted, not necessarily because the spouse was not good or sweet.
She will still know that you care, even if you back off a bit. She will think that you care more, because you are giving her space to sort her trouble mind and feelings. If you hovered over her, she gets all confuse and she does not know what to think. For a while I was so confused and to top it foggy too, with my husband telling me and pressuring me on one side and the OM on the other side saying the complete opposite. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
So you really need to let her think and act on her own. She gets out of confussion faster that way.
Thats a good schedule you have to be able to get off early for your kids. Starting the day early is the best!!! You dont waste any minute of it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Did she get your e-mails yet??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MYRTA