Arj:
This is speculation:

Myrta told me about the email your wife wrote. The impression I have is that her love bank has been depleted for a long time and the affair is not the main problem. In other words, I suspect she is not longing for OM. The problem is that her love bank is empty.

Doing the ENs questionnaire is crucial in this instance. You need to work of that 24/7. You need to determine what went on during that time. What caused the bank to be depleted? Do you have any ideas?

She claims she is not rewriting marital history and that she has seen the MB site. I always worry about marital history when it is described by a WW. It may sound accurate, but sometimes there is emphasis on the negative and the positive is disregarded. This is done subconsciously to justify the affair. IN any even, something went wrong----- she sounds like a woman with an empty bank.

Good Luck!

stan-ley,--

i agree with you. i think her tank has been empty for some time, but i did not know it then.

and i don't think the OM is the problem. i guess this is good news?

she started filling out the en questionaire last night. not done yet. she said it is hard. MC has asked her before what her EN'S are, and she says she honestly doesn't know. i said that is why you need to fill it out the best you can, so we can figure them out and have a place to start.

so now i just try to meet what i think her top three are, and expect nothing? is that what to do even if she isn't in fog or w/drawal?

i don't think the A is the problem.

i agree she sounds like a woman with an empty bank, now i guess we just have to figure out what wenr wrong and why.

thanks for the input,

arjdad

also,--

i told her tonight that i understood what she was saying when she said that when she trys to show affection, i try to go farther then she is comfortable with. i told her from now on, i would not instigate any physical contact or affection with her, and when she did, i would not push it. i said we san take that at her pace. she smiled and said thank you like she really meant it.

i just have to figure out her needs and meet them.

arjdad

arjdad,

That is what my H did months ago and I felt such a relief. He said that he wouldn't approach me sexually. It would have to be up to me. Because, at that point, I felt like I was in some kind of shock, and even him touching me set me off in a negative, bad place. I felt nearly like a rape victim. I guess it was the guilt and fog, but I didn't want to even THINK of being a sexual person to him at that point. When he took the pressure off, I felt relief and it made me start looking at him differently.

I hope it all works out for you! Take care!

CC

buttercup,--

i am talking about not approaching her not just sexually, but any phsysical show of affection.if she wants a hug or hold hands or whatever, that is welcome by me, but she would have to start it. i told her just because i wasn't trying to show affection, did not mean that i didn't want it. i said we can proceed at her pace.

this is a good thing?
arjdad

arj,

Ooh, well, that's good too. My H held off on ALL affection, allowing me to make the first move, and it was MUCH easier on me! I think it's a good idea. Pressure off.

CC

buttercup,--

thats what i am going forward with. pressure off.

at least no matter what happens, i know i gave 110 percent.

i am feeling better now.

it feels easier to talk to her. in MC monday, i am going to try a little harder to get her to try to talk about what she thinks went wrong. i don't think it was anything in particular, just not meeting each others en's over a period of time.

i guess there is nothing to lose by speaking my mind now.

thanks for the encouragement,

arjdad

ok,

i am here now. we went to visit a different church today, one that is in the small town we live by. try to be part of the community. we have talked about it for a while, and decided to do it at the first of the year.there are 3-4 churches we will visit. hopefully one will feel right and we will go there permenently. i am hoping a changewill help?

stan-ley, i know you are right her tank is empty, and i am planning on bringing up the past at MC tomorrow. i honestly don't think that her A is our biggest problem. the problem is, we have talked about this before, she doesn't know what happened 10 years ago and i don't either. i guess that is where we need to start.

i am willing to change and try to improve myself, but it would be easier if she could be more specific.i know in the past i have always been really sarcastic, and i am changing that. i read in a book that 1 sarcastic "zinger" cancels out 20 complements. that hit me hard. i guess if i look back honestly, i have not been that nice to her alot. but it takes two, and neither one of us were meeting each others en's.

i still want to save this M,i just don't know what to do now. i thought the problem was her affair, but things have been said in the last few days to make me realize that the A really is not the problem. it IS a problem, but there are deeper issues. hopefully, we can find the problems and correct them.

thanks for helping,

arjdad

myrta, stan-ley, buttercup, and anyone else following my saga,--

we went to MC today and it went really good.the lines of communication are starting to open a little bit, and that has always been hard for both of us. we dicussed feelings of anger and resentment that we had years ago, but neither of us knew how the other felt.it is still going to take a lot of time, but i actually feel like we MIGHT make it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> she still can't seem to figure out what her EN'S ARE, BUT SHE IS TRYING TO FILL OUT THE FORM. SHE SAYS SHE JUST FEELS NUMB. she got on the MB website for help filling it out and did some reading. i hope that is a good sign. i had asked her to get familiar with MB principals.

i have to pick one D up and bring her home and then the wife and i are going to watch the other D play b-ball. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> hoping for a good time.

just wanted to say i am better today.

arjdad

ARJDAD-- I am glad for you and your wife that things went well today in your appointment. I also think that you will make it, even though she has not been very receptive. She is in a "funk" and she is coming out of it. Although I dont want to presume anymore I know what she is thinking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

I hope you have a good time at your daughter's game and you can both relax and enjoy it. Maybe you can continue the line of thought of your appointment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

I am so happy that you are feeling more optimistic Arj. I dont like to see you sad and sulking. I want and hope that all of us here trying will be able to make it in the long run.

Take care.

MYRTA

myrta,--

things did go well today. i know now that i have to slow down and back off some.we talked about things that bothered us both years ago. it will be a long process, but i think we are making progress now.she told MC that she could see the changes i have been making. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> but she still is not sure how this is going to turn out. i guess i am not sure either, but i am optimistic.

thanks for all your help and input, and just being there when i need to vent.

the MC suggested that she try to talk more with her aunt i talked about earlier, said that would be another outlet. wife asked me if i would mind if she went to visit her some weekend, i said no problem. her aunt is a dear lady and like a second mom to her.she is my favorite relative on that side of her family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

we are just now uncovering things about each other that we didnot know, and it is kind of exciting. i feel like here is this lady that i want to get to know. it is somewhat awkward because i am already sleeping with her.[ tho not having SF] MCsays if we were just starting to date, we would not have sex at first, so it looks like it might be awhile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> i know i can wait if it makes our M better in the long run.

sorry to babble,

arjdad

ARJDAD--Good news from you, I am so happy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
So she has been noticing your changes, thats very good, she was not as foggy as we thought she was.
Just keep on doing your good work and everything will keep on getting better.
Is her aunt, the friend that she referred to? If it is her aunt, thats really good. Has she always beeing close to her? Sounds like a good idea for her to go and visit and take a little break from each other. Gives you both time to think and sort things.

Arjdad--you can be sure that your wife is a different, new woman now, and yes, you should take the time to know her. I think thats a big mistake that many BS do, they assume the WWs still the same as before the affair. The affair changes a person big time, BS and WWs should adjust to these new changes in the marriage. I think its kind of fun in a crazy way, because you are kind of puzzled by this new person that is sleeping by you.

Take care

Myrta

myrta,

her aunt is not the close friend she talks about, that is a lady that works for the same company she does. MC told her it would be good to talk to aunt, because then she would have more people to talk to.

i agree in a CRAZY way it is fun because it is new and exciting. although i know we are not there yet. i do think we are on the right track. she still doesn't know how it will turn out, but i feel like she is trying harder now- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

gotta get back to work, i will check back at lunch

arjdad

myrta,--

we are going to another b-ball game tonight, with all yhe kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . the oldest d is playing.

things between wife and i seem pretty good right now, i just have to keep reminding myself not to expect too much. conversation between us seems more real, and almost playful.

i hope to encourage her to try to finish filling out the EN'S questionaire soon. she ask if she should fill it out like she feels right now, or like she felt when she was happy? what do you guys think? i feel like it is a positive step that she will even try to do it.

i think i can see light at the end of the tunnel, sometimes.

thanks for listening,
arjdad

Arjdad--Yeahhhh, I am so happy for you. It seems things are improving a lot the last couple of days for you and your wife. Thats really great.
I think she should feel in the questionarie how she feels now, not before. I just filled mine this morning how I feel now. I will give it to my husband when he gets home.

So she is more playful with you now? YOu are talking more too? DO Your older girls know that anything is wrong with you guys? Or you act normal in front of them?

Myrta

Arjdad- I forgot to tell you that Buttercup told me that she would post to you again as soon as she is able to do so. She has not forgotten about you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . She is happy things are going better for you and your wife.

MYRTA

myrta,--

thanks for the info about buttercup. i was worried about her. i meant to ask you if she was all right. tell her i said to take care of herself and her family first, and she and i can catch up then. besides , you are doing a good job of keeping me going.

we had a good time at the game tonight, i think just completely backing off and just trying to be good friends is the thing to do right now.

i have been reading more on the MB website, and my wife has a little too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> she found the "three states of mind in marriage" and was reading thru them. [intimacy, conflict, and withdrawal]. withdrawal in the context of our m, not the OM. she said that is where she thinks she is. it is interesting to read, i think in our marriage, we have both been in withdrawal for a while. if you go over there and read it, will you let me know what you think?

thanks for everything,
arjdad

stan-ley,
you ok? have not heard from you lately, but saw on another thread your need to vent. feel free to e-mail me as well if you want, myrta has my e=mail addy. you have helped me ALOT, so if there is anything i can do for you , let me know.

arjdad

ok,-

itis getting hard to stay focused again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . whenever i think that we are not the same people we were before, and that if we can make it, it will be like a new m, i don't know if i can forget what she has done to me and move on. i guess it would/will be easier when i actually KNOW that she wants to reconcile.

things are going good, but since i told her i would not initiate any affection, she has not touched me at all. i know it has only been a few days since i told her that, and i need to be patient and give her space, but itis so hard.

i hope things are looking up by valentines day, how awkward is that gonna feel? i don't know what to do.

thanks for listening,

arjdad

Valentines day is a lOOOOng way off. Don't borrow trouble, just do this one day at a time. Each day you will have to recommit to helping her, and now you feel the best way is to not push her for contact. Then simply do this each day, by reaffirming to yourself that you will do your best to take care of her.

God Bless,

JL

JL,-

thanks for the encouragment. i know i need to take it one day at a time.

my sister likes to say," never trouble trouble, til trouble troubles you". i guess that is what you are saying?

we seem to be doing good, and enjoying each others company, i just wish we were more than friends right now.

thanks again,

arjdad