Absolutely. You don't stop living a normal life in plan B. You just stop communicating with a WS. Communicating family business with an H is a good thing. This is something (mail) which requires an H to view. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You could even add a little picture drawn by your little one if you choose. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Heh..

She "cannot wit"..so true..so true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Noodle

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Noodle.
I can always count on the MB board to give me a good laugh when I need one. lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She is on a SERIOUS power trip. She 'has my man' and wants to 'claim' my in laws as her own, and move to the state WH and I are from, and have his kids.... It is sad that she would consider having children for the sake of power...but that is just her style. I hope WH wakes up to the real world before he goes through with it.

Orchid,
What do you mean by you stop communicating with the WH but you continue communicating family business with the H? I think I understand, but I don't want to go about this wrong. Thank you so much!
Danielle

Wow...I found a disposable camera of my WH yesterday. I developed the pictures. Nothing X rated or anything, but about 10 pictures of OW and her kids. Looking at them makes me angry. In one of the pictures her 4yo son is standing at the table, and she is pouring him juice. On the table are bottles of Kalahua, and Absoloute Vodka. Upstanding... I really don't know what he finds so attractive about her..
Danielle

Bumping up my question for Orchid <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Danielle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DanigirlinVA:
<strong> ...Orchid,
What do you mean by you stop communicating with the WH but you continue communicating family business with the H? I think I understand, but I don't want to go about this wrong. Thank you so much!
Danielle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well what I did was when I had to communicate on specific items, I would preface the convo by asking to speak to my H. Like this:

BS: Hello, may I please speak to my H (& gave name).

WS: This is K....

Bs: Hi, I need to speak to my H.

WS: This is your H.

BS: R U sure? I have a personal anythe sarcatic rebuttal of that other guy.

WS: I am your H.

BS: Ok, hi....hope you are doing ok..... this is why I called.....

If H replied with anything that showed he was morphing into the WS, I would stop the convo and ask to have my H call back when he was available.

I did this about 10 times. He eventually got it. It made my responses slower but also with less anger.

I refused to talk to a jack azz. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As long as he was acting civil, I c/b the same. If he got foggy, I ended the convo.

As for the pictures, I would keep the negatives or get a 2nd set made. I would then forward a set to your lawyer to help establish the need to for sole custody. Let them know you are afraid of your child's safety. Can't do anything about this other child but you can protect your own.

It will take a while but it should have a long reaching effect.


L.

Well a lot has happened, and frankly I am not proud of any of it, so I haven’t posted in awhile. I am sorry about that...I really need to.

12/17/04 Friday
I needed to talk to WH about his orders out of the Navy to plan moving with household goods.

Me: Hello I am looking for Adam, my husband

WH: Umm hello?
Me: Yes, is this my husband?
WH: Oh, you’re not ignoring me anymore?
Me: I am not ignoring you; I am separating myself from the drama out of love for you.
WH: That is what I did, separated myself from you.
Me: Okay, anyhow, I need to know some information about orders....etc.
We talk, discuss the information. He puts me on hold to ask someone something about dates of duty and comes back.
WH: So are you going to let me see my kids when I am in Maine?
ME: I have never stopped you from seeing them, and they miss you.
WH: Well good, because I will come up someday to your aunts and pick them up.
ME: You realize your visits are not to include OW.
WH: Whatever, forget it then, I have 5 kids that count on me, just so you know.
Me: Thank you for the information about the orders; I will be waiting for the hard copies in the mail. Talk to you later.
Bye

We didn't talk again until Sunday night. He knew I would be at his parents house, for his little brothers birthday party. He is still in VA until the 28th. The visit at his parents house was great for the kids, but semi-uncomfortable for me. Not much was said about the affiar..and I was OK with that. The OW, my WH and her kids are going to be staying next door to my inlaws, at my WH grandparents old house when they come up for the visit. Yikes. Anyhow, about 30 minutes before I planned to leave WH calls his parents house. His brother hands me the phone. He says "I am going to die" I said really, I am sorry to hear that but I am busy with your family right now, can we talk later? He said "you don't understand, OW left me and I have no car to drive now" I told him that was nothing new, but that I really had to go. I got off the phone with him. About 10 minutes later he called back. I guess he and OW and her kids are staying at the Navy Lodge Hotel because they got evicted. The OW and WH got into a fight (whats new?) and she took all of her things out of the hotel and left in her car. (WH is paying for the storage unit for her things and the hotel) Anyhow, WH ended up going to 'our' house and got my truck since he has no car. His is broke down on base and he had been using her car. I am in Maine until the first week of January, so there wasn't much I could do about it from here. He was all depressed, blah blah, she called the cops on him for saying he was vandalizing her car, he told the cops she was crazy. Drama. He said she was never coming back, he didn't care where she was, she had said horrible things to him that he couldn't forgive her for, etc. He kept calling his house again and again every time I would get him off the phone. He was saying that all he is, is a worthless jerk etc… I finally explained to his mother what was going on, and she just said 'I guess things change'.
I left his house after about 10 minutes and went back to my aunts (where I am staying). He called my aunts the next day and my aunt said I was not home (I really was). He told my aunt to tell me that he is OK and that he is back with OW. Blah.
Today he left a message on the machine asking when I was moving up here, and what was the urgency of the orders. I didn't respond.
I am so tired...and just want my husband back.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Danielle

Good morning Danielle,

So all ain't purty in paradise..... eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Esp. not in the foggy one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to see you posting. You are doing well.

So let me get this straight, he called you the first time within minutes of his call back to tell you he and the OW had been evicted and then her leaving him stranded?

More fob babble. Real account but babble RE: his threats about you holding back the kids from him was the babble part.

See you don't know the real reasons for their calls unless you stop the commuication from them.... just like you did.

So what was the point of him telling the aunt that he was OK because the OW came back? Like who cares?

Drama, drama, drama.....

take care, that soap opera got a few more drama scenes coming out.... he took your truck? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You are doing good, stay strong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Danielle,

Good to hear from you. I don't know why you are't proud of the way you've been handling your mess of a WH while you are in Maine. You have done splendidly. Orchid will be proud!

I think you need Plan B now more than ever, as soon as is possible. Can all communications between the two of you be handled by a third party so you can make the move back to Maine without having to deal with him and his mess?

Let him bring that crazy woman to meet the family. Just wait until they get a load of her. You don't have to wait around for the eruptions. All you need to do is figure out how to best insulate yourself and your kids from all of his crap.

Who can be the go-between? His mom? Your aunt? You really need to do this now. WH and OW are being held together by mental illness and sheer pride and by removing yourself one of two things will happen: 1) Their happy ending will implode from the sheer force of reality or 2) you'll be on your way to a happy ending of your own, without WH.

((((Hugs))))

~ Snow

I feel like I need to run away, from my own life. I can't move on enough to let go...I hate this.
So anyhow he calls today to say that he is giving the truck back to the bank (I am sure he is giving it to the OW) It is really in his name...so not much I can do. Now I am stuck with no car...great.
Then he asks about the anniversary ring we have on a layaway type plan at the jewlery store. He said he wants to take over payments to give it to the OW. They will be married as soon as we are divorced. Whatever.
He said he called and talked to his Mother and told her that the 'fight' with the OW and my WH was a lie to get the truck back. I KNOW for a FACT that they REALLY were fighting...because there is a police report filed. Why would she call the cops just to get the truck back when I am in Maine and they are in Virginia? So now his Mother thinks that I am the fool. He said his Mom thinks I am the white trash. I am supposed to go to his parents house tomorrow night with the kids to celebrate Christmas. I really don't want to. I don't know what to do anymore...
I asked him why he is making life so difficult and he said he isn't, I am just sick in the head and can't accept that his relationship with the OW is going further then ours did.
Why can't I let go?
Danielle

Dani,

Call your MIL, let her know you received revealing info regarding her and wanted to know if you and the children are still invited to visit with them or not. Let her know that you have been informed that the lies are spreading with different stories to different people from the WS' own mouth. Included are things like giving the family truck to the OW and leaving the family without a vehicle, giving a ring put on layaway for the BS to give to the OW, telling lies to MIL and others, etc. Just wanted to know if she was aware and does that affect your R with her.

I think that will give you an idea..... it will also let your MIL know that she is being played for a fool by the WS no different than you or anyone else. Mom's don't like to know their kids are trying to play them for a fool. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

Tonight is one of those nights when I can't stop crying. I am really down in the dumps...and can't see how I can get out. I feel like there is no way he will come back, but no way I can go on without him in my life.

WH just e-mailed an old highschool friend of ours that we have recently been in contact with. She wrote to me and told me she was sorry but she didn't know how to reply, and asked if I wanted her to say anything to him.
This is what it says.
"Friend,

The simple fact is neither one of us were happy in the relationship we were in. I tried for a year of my life to try to make things better but Danielle didn't change. There is so much to the story that you don't know and that I don't want to waste to your time with. The simple fact is that Danielle can say whatever she wants to whomever she wants and turn things to her advantage. My command thinks I'm a fool for lies she has told them. Everytime I talk to my family and friends I have to set things right with them because she makes me out to be a horrible person.

My number one priority in life is my children. That's is why for the first three months of our seperation I left my entire paycheck with them. Now it's different for her and I came to somewhat of an agreement that I need to have some money to be able to pay off the $20,000 in credit card debt that Danielle has left me with. I see my kids when she lets me, I know she says other things but and what I say doesn't matter but I hate the fact that she is turning everyone against me. She wants me to see the kids there, but I have no interest in seeing Danielle.

I see your prayers everyday but so much has happened that for her and I to get back together is not even an option. If I had known 6 years ago that she was this kind of person I would have never aloud it. The whole thing with another woman... yes there is, but it's not the reason that I left Danielle. I was at my wits end with her. Somebody that is very caring and treats me like I have never been treated before just happened to walk into my life at the time. The only thing I can say about the other woman is that if it wasn't for her I probably wouldn't be alive right now, she is the only thing that has kept me going through this and I owe her my life.

I have no control over Danielle and what she does. I can only warn people of the picture she paints of herself and people around her. If she is not in control of the situation then she will not stop until she is. I need to be divorced from her and be able to be happy and live my life, that is all I'm trying to do. I want my kids to be happy to but that's another story for another day... and I hope the plans I'm trying to make go through.

Adam"

Well all I can say is that he is welcome to see the kids anytime, and I continue to tell him that.
At this point I just don't know....
How much can you cry before the tears dry up?
Danielle

Dear Dani,

See how he is now trying to pass off the OW as some kind of a saint type lifesaver?

Reply kindly to your friend. Thank her for having the insight for bringing this to your attention. Ask her for her input on what he wrote. Does it sound a bit disjointed and illogical?

I would say something like, 'wow didn't know that I (Danielle) was sooo wacko - LOL!!!' Guess it took some sort of an OW to straighten up his head? Gotta wonder where he finds these types of females who prey on married men.' Something like that.

Let her know that you and others are seeing the man who wrote her as not the same character that your H was. Let her know that it scares you. Fiancially he has gotten his family in debt and now expects the family to enable his affair.

In order to give him support for his affair, he is even trying to convince others (of how good the affair is) since he is having a hard time trying to convince his family and his command that commiting adultery is better than being married, is sad indeed.

Let her know if there is anything she needs to know and you can tell her, you will. She just needs to ask. Doesn't mean you have to tell her all but then she realizes you are not the crazy one.

Let her know that you have been dealing with this issue for XXX amount of time and both you and your family are having a difficult time.

As for his disclosing $$ issues with her, let her know you are embarressed and apologize for his uncouth behavior. Let her know he did not used to be this way but the company he has been keeping has been questionable and again it is another reason for your fears. You don't have to straigthen out his statements about you. It is obvious that spending $$ on family comes first and anyone who has an OP will be wasting family funds not the BS.

As to how she should reply, let her know that she can say what she needs. If she wants to wait until after she has spoken with you, that w/b fine. Also if she becomes aware that he is doing this to anyone else, to please let you know. re: You are being undermined at almost every turn by this strange character.

Thank her for her support.

That's for your friend.... for you: {{{{MB hug}}}} <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

PS: The upside to this is that it is in writing. WS can't say, 'I forgot what I wrote to....'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Dani- I also live in Virginia Beach. My hubby is active duty.

I'm a bit confused. Are you really in Plan B? Because I haven't seen anything settled through an intermediary- don't you have someone who can ask him about order information? I'm still catching up- have you been to Family Support for counseling (for yourself) and to the Legal office for protection? Also, in Plan B, I don't think it wise to read anything your WH writes- to anyone. I would highly recommend you stop it, even when the urge is just too much.

I would just warn your friends and family that they can't beleive a thing that ocmes out of his mouth. They should know you well enough to know that he's gone bonkers.

I'm very saddened by your MIL's reaction to hearing what is going on. I think I would also ask if you are really welcome in her home and let her know what you were told-- that hearing that has made you uncomfortable. I hope you have some strong support systems there to get you through this mess.

I just want to strangle your H and send my own H after him. I've shared some of the things I've read here with my H and he thought it was disgusting. Our situation was differant on Dday my hubby dropped his superficial once PA/then EA the moment I found out, so I never dealt with an OW. I wouldn't have, but that's just me. I am one of the 'lucky' ones (blech). My kids were older and knew what was goingon and I think it had a lot to do with us wanting to set things right.

I wish I knew what to say to you...

Dani,
I am sorry for what you are going through. I am praying for you. Don't have much time, but please stop reading anything from your WH, talking to others about him and hearing anything at all and do NOT talk to him. Plan B is to remove yourself from him and the drama because it is too painful and may dissolve all of your love for him Believe me, these terrible things he is saying now will come back to haunt you both when you reconcile--and if you don't you still feel the pain and remember. You will only get peace when you accept that he is crazy right now, remove yourself from it completely and know that you only control yourself. Your plan to move is good, but you need to be doing things NOW to make you feel good about you. Work on a plan for YOU and don't pay ANY attention to the stuff your WH is doing. There is lots of trouble in paradise there, just let it play itself out.

Hugs, and merry christmas.

Dear Danigirl -

Just to say don't lose heart - you can survive this and come out a stronger, happier person.

I just felt I had to answer you because my WH also painted me out to be wacko to all his friends, and I'd have to say that that was one of the most painful parts, for me - reading what he said to other people about me, in his e-mails. I found out about his 2nd EA by guessing the password on his new private e-mail account - I actually had no idea he was going out with another woman behind my back (they were "just friends") - so after that he used to call me "the hacker" in his e-mails to his friends. It really hurt to see him refer to me like that, with a kind of derogatory nickname - like that was all I was to him anymore - just "the hacker". He made me out to be pathologically jealous of his innocent friendship. I confronted the OW by e-mail and she told me she would quit seeing him and e-mailing him if that's what I wanted - I didn't really know what was happening then and didn't know how to handle it - I hadn't yet found MB, but basically, I told her we were having problems and she should back off - she had a boyfriend and we had kids and I didn't think my H should be having the kind of friendship he was having with her. She agreed that if she had found her own e-mails on her BF's computer, she would be upset, too, and reassured me she wouldn't see him anymore. Of course, that only lasted two days. I spied on his computer history for 6 weeks and they had daily contact - finally she visited my house while I was at work. Both my kids were there and she brought them sweets. The next day my 6 yr old told me he had seen Daddy kiss her in the kitchen. I confronted WH and he denied it furiously and dragged YS into the kitchen and told him he was a liar - YS was raked over the coals in front of me - I honestly couldn't believe this was the same man who adored his kids. So I confronted her again by e-mail and I was a lot more aggressive this time, even though I was still polite. The upshot of that was that WH told her I was a "very sick person". And this was the story he gave to all his friends. It took two years of more trauma and many failed attempts at counselling before we could say we were in recovery.

I'd say we were in recovery now, and we still have some issues, but I think he would be deeply ashamed now if I were to confront him now with some of the things he said about me.

It was posting here at MB that kept me going, and kept my head above water. I KNEW I was NOT what he said about me and so I didn't ever for a minute let myself believe it, even if I worried that other people did. I thought to myself that the people who mattered to me would be the ones who would judge me by my integrity and my actions - the rest I didn't care about - if they were going to believe what he said about me then I didn't want to know them. And that's still the way I feel - I found out some I thought were good people, and friends of mine, were no friends of mine and I'm glad I'm not under any illusions about them anymore. It also gave me the courage to confront those of our friends who sided with him and were sabotaging our recovery.

But what I'm saying also is that this is pretty much standard behaviour for a WS - the only way they can convince their "people" that they are in the right is to paint you to be the worst thing that ever happened to them and they are such a MARTYR for trying so hard for so long. I didn't go through what you are going through - my H never left us - but I sympathize with your pain and I can see the same dynamic going on.

And I would say this is why you need to protect yourself and not have contact with him - its just too demoralizing and it hurts too bad. Part of taking care of yourself is protecting yourself from this kind of thing. I would tell your friend that you don't want to know what he is saying about you because you've already heard it and can imagine it already, and that she shouldn't judge unless she will listen to your side of the story, too.

You ARE going to make it, Danigirl, with him or without him - YOU are going to make it.

LIR

Have you talked with his command about his moving plans?

Its been 10 years since I had to deal with the military, but I think with him being your sponser they will say no to doing anything to move HER. I may be wrong, but it might be worth looking into.

Orchid,
I talked to my friend and explained to her that I was embarrassed and appolgized for my WH actions
his need to discuss personal matters with her. She understood that it wasn't like my WH to act in
such a way. She replied to my WH that she really didn't know what to say to him other then she couldn't
find a single reason why leaving ones wife and comitting adultery was a good thing to do and she hoped
that he was able to find inner peace one day.

Mojodiva,
I am also upset and saddened by my MIL acceptance of my WH actions. According to my MIL she loves
us both and the children very much and wishes to remain 'nutural'. I think allowing the OW and her children
to stay with her voids that whole 'nutural' thing. As far as plan B...you are exactly correct. I am not
doing plan B as I should...and I am at fault for that. My family is really angry with my WH and wishes
to stay out of it, so finding a nutural person to go through has not been easy. I was hoping my Mother
could play this role, but she does not want to speak to WH at all. The good thing about it is that WH
does not wish to communicate with me that often. The problem is that I need to speak with him about money
and such...each payday.


Anne,
Thank you for the encouragement. That is the HARDEST thing that I am having trouble with. No matter
how much I try to remove myself, I think about WH constantly. I am not even talking to him, but I wonder
what he is doing, and think about him ALL the time. I see a happy couple, and I cry... I drive by a place
that my WH and I used to go...and I cry. I wake up and wonder what he is doing... I go to sleep thinking about
him. I don't know how to change this..


Lady_In_Red,
Thank you very much for the encouragement...it is much appreciated. It is very encouraging to know that my WH
actions and words are NORMAL for a WH. Through this I will see who are really my friends, and who are not....

john3479,
I have talked to his command at length throughout this whole process. Because he is seperating from the Navy and not
just moving duty stations they give very little help. I do need to contact them again as soon as I get back in Virginia.
Thank you for the support.

Well I thought I would update on our situation...
Last night was a night I don't ever want to relive, for me emotionally.

Christmas day. WH was in VA still on duty, and the kids and I are in Maine. I had not talked to him since he took the truck back. I got an e-mail at about 8:30pm saying "OW is gone, please call my room tonight or me on the ship tomorrow" Did I? No. At about 10:30pm WH called my aunts house (where I am staying) and asked for me. My aunt said I was not home (I was) and WH said he really needed to talk to me, and to have me call him when I got home. At 11pm he called back and STUPIDLY!!!! I answered the phone without checking who it was. What was I thinking? Anyhow, WH said that he went in our house through the window and took his winter jacket and sweat**** and left his toolbox in the living room. I could tell he was very down in the dumps. I ignored it. He said he hoped that the kids and I had a good Christmas and if we needed anything to tell him. I said we had a great Christmas and the one thing he could do for me was stop telling people lies about me. He said "I am sorry about everything, do you want me to call everyone and tell them how wonderful and loving you are?" I told him no, just don't go saying lies about me to make yourself look better. He then went on about how OW held a knife to his neck and punched him in the face twice in front of her kids at the hotel room before leaving to be with her H. I said oh really, nice person, NOW do you see why I don't want her around OUR KIDS? Then he said "I am not going to lie anymore, I am sorry for everything..." blah blah blah. I just said I had to go and shoulnd't even be talking to him. He said he understands if I don't want to talk to him. I said if you understood you wouldn't keep calling.
That was Christmas day. His vacation leave started the night of the 28th (tuesday) and he planned to come to Maine with OW before this whole thing happened Christmas. He told me that he didn't know how he was getting here now, because he has no money.
Well last night I drove by his parents and found none other then the OWs truck in the drive way. So....OW, her 3 kids and my WH are about 20 minutes from where I am staying, at his Moms house. That was sooooo hard to see. She is at MY MIL house, in MY STATE. AHHHH! I can't stop thinking about it. I love him so much......
We went to visit family last night and my 4 YO son walked around their house picking up every picutre he found of WH or our family and stacked them up and said "I miss my Dad". This is so hard.....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Danielle

Throughout the day I have questioned myself. I have avoided going near the area in which the OW and WH are. I have gone the OTHER direction to go to the store.
I really want to see them, but I wish I could be invisiable while doing it. Not possible...I know. I hate the fact that she is here....so much! She isn't FROM here and doesn't BELONG here...
Danielle