You know, I was just reading through the section about recovery on this site and I am starting to get a little burned. In it they talk about the WS repenting and wanting to come back and it just seems reading it that recovery is all about the WS getting back into the BS good graces. Honesty, account for your time, spend time with the BS.

All over this board I read very, very few cases where this is taking place. A majority of us are fighting tooth and nail, trying to change ourselves, trying to win our SP back. SP who cr*pped all over our M's.

All this tells me is I am still in plan A, not recovery, or at the least the very earliest stages of it. The most dangerous part. Where I can feel the blade of the D axe on my neck. The part where my WW stares at the long road back and wonders if it is worth it. Must not be, or else why would I have strayed. I must not love him, I don't and haven't...

So what this is all about is convincing, without words, rather with actions, the WS that it is worth it, and that not only do you love them, but they still love you, and that life can be wonderful again, together.

I am mentally and emotionally exhausted from all this...and it has just started. I pray that my WW will soon start to shoulder some of the load and try to connect to me rather than putting up barriers.

Just a little musing. I started off p!ssed asking a question and ended up finding my own answer. I guess this whole thing about finding out WW has talked to lawyer is really getting to me. Betrayal for me was horrific, and I am getting through it. But until now, I always believed that WW wanted the M. Now that belief has been shattered as well and I am holding onto nothing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I read very, very few cases where this is taking place. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I remember that occurring to me also and I thought maybe this stuff doesn't really work since I don't really see a lot of success stories posted.

It could very well be that by the time you're in recovery the last thing you want to do is come to this board and read about all of the continung heartache out there. You're busy with you're recovery.

I never posted my story. I was never sure whether it was a real recovery or false. I'm still not sure that we're completely there.

Bear,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am mentally and emotionally exhausted from all this...and it has just started. I pray that my WW will soon start to shoulder some of the load and try to connect to me rather than putting up barriers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry to say but I think it will be a while before you see much effort on her part.

I read about a book here when I was going through my ordeal, "The Passion Paradox". You may be able to search for the postings that refer to it...

The theory is basically, in a relationship there is always a one-who-is-up/one-who-is-down dynamic. Basically, somebody is always more in love then the other one. It can actually go back and forth; the one who was down can become the one-up and visa-versa. It's ok as long as it's not way out of balance. If it gets way out of balance where the one-down is way down and the one-up is way up, it is not good. The one-down is miserable and in fact, the one-up is not that happy either due to their feelings of guilt.

The way to change this is:

1. The one-down should pull away slightly, kind of a mini-Plan B, not completely dark but let's say just a tad bit shaded; start doing activities on their own that they enjoy; try to take their mind off of the one-up that they are obsessed with.

2. The one-up needs to try and stop feeling guilty about the imbalance and to try make an effort to move a little closer to the one-down.

It's kind of like the hard-to-get game but it's not a game because these actions can be openly discussed, for example:

The one-down might say, "I feel that I need to start pulling away from you a bit and do some things on my own for my own mental health and for the health of our marriage."

This relieves some of the pressure on the relationship and helps both the one-up and the one-down to lighten up a little.

Also, if you have other activities then you have stories to tell and it makes you more interesting to the one-up. Ideally, if you become truly 'mysterious' as in, unpredictable, that can also be very attractive (I don't think I ever quite managed 'mysterious'. I'm just too damned methodical and analytic) Predictability kills attraction.

I hope this helps. You're doing very good I think with your Plan A but you're becoming frustrated with the uncertainty I think. Just believe that it is working; you're doing everything that you can, that's all that you can do. The rest is in God's hands.

Have you read Mortarman's story? He's been to hell and back and he and his wife seem to have turned the corner.

What Legato said is also a part of the book The Art of Seduction. Chapter called "give them space to fall". What Stillhere said about communication, Robert Greene covers in "Enter their spirit". This is a long process. You're not 20 anymore, neither is your wife.

Bear, you're just at the beginning of Plan A. I would think that recovery starts when both have agreed to put their best efforts forward to rebuild. Sorry, but I don't think you're close to that - due to your WW. Having said that, when I came home, I vacillated wildly about my commitment to my marriage. Honestly, I was only present initially maybe 97% of the time (despite 2 children and a newborn). It slowly got better. Even now I wonder, especially on a day like this when I am bored out of my skull.

She just moved back home. She got an unequivocal final message from the OM. You're only just beginning.

Ok, relieve the pressure a bit. I would like that. It might also have the added benefit of delaying any D decision she might be making and give me more time to plan A. (I can plan A because I have no expectations of anything from her).

Thinking about my sitch, I have had this for months. That is our problem, stepping away, seperate lives. This is what got us in trouble in the first place.

We all live separate lives - we have to - we're not empaths. The problem is not sharing, the problem is lack of communication, growing apart, growing different, not sharing, no longer being interested in the other (assuming we know them), no longer being interesting to them.

BDGD-- And as a result of that message she calls a lawyer about D proceedings? Beginning of plan A? I thought plan A was to break the A. Well, it seems broken. Now there is w/d, actually this w/d has been ongoing for months due to broken NC.

Hell, forget the stages. I can't figure it out, just know that I am in plan A for life.

Been so beat up already that I am just tired. Having her home is great (be better if there wasn't that wall, and there was affection, love, etc) but extremely taxing on me. When she was at P's, i could go out there and see her and then get away.

I will say this, those three months stunk, and we went nowhere, but if she was home I would have been LBing all over the place and probably just ruined any chance.

That being said, I feel progress since she has been home (even though she is calling the lawyer). I touvched her on the shoulder this morning when i told herr she was beautiful, I have given her backrubs. A few months ago she was having nightmares of me beating her and repelling from my touch. Now she asks for it (backrub). When she wakes in the morn and is still in foggy sleep, she forgets to be p!ssed at me and treats me like she used to.

I'm just saying, to me and her, she's been home 3 weeks now, it is very early and we just need to give it time. I hope she gives it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We all live separate lives - we have to - we're not empaths. The problem is not sharing, the problem is lack of communication, growing apart, growing different, not sharing, no longer being interested in the other (assuming we know them), no longer being interesting to them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read somewhere that left alone, with no effort on the part of the couple, spouses will grow apart. That's why 10-15 hrs per week together is recommended. I know that's not possible for you now, given your situation, Bear, but it is normal for couples to grow apart. They must make effort to reconnect. You are making effort and right now it sounds like your wife is not. Just give her time and hopefully she will. Just rememember - marathon, not sprint - you have to pace yourself - your job is to endure.

Folks, i get it. TIME. I understand this is not going to be quick or easy. I am just wigging out a bit because WW could be on her way to filing. Yet, if I didn't snoop and find this out, i would be feeling much better as the week went along.

Follow this week. WW goes out, sees OM, OM shuts her down, WW tells me all, is honest, is crying. The next day, she is softer. Things are seeming to get better. Tuesday she talks to a lawyer. My alarm goes off. In emails to me, we used to just exchange info about DS, now she is carrying convo about people at work, etc. Open to breakfasst Sunday. But all this while she gathering info on D.

I cannot read her at all. I'd say, given the circumstances, she is being awful nice if she plans on serving me papers.

Just ordered Art of Seduction, 5 Love Languages, and After the Affair on Amazon (Screwed up my order, they are shipping seperately). I perused "After" at B&N today. It looked real good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot read her at all. I'd say, given the circumstances, she is being awful nice if she plans on serving me papers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a good sign. The thing is, even if she is putting on an act and planning on serving you it's better that you know and are not completely blindsided.

It could be that her feeling of rejection is propelling her towards a self-destructive decision. Or I could be psycho-babbling.

I really don't know; WWs are impossible to read so why bother trying? If she's being nice, I guess, just try and enjoy it as best you can.

Hang in there, it's gonna be ok.

Well, the weekend is here. This is always when the crap starts to fly because WW will want to go out, I will wig out(on the inside) from distrust. It should be better for me now that OM has told her to get lost, that could change though...so...I keep my eyes open.

She has plans for Saturday...wonder if I should go out? If I do, am I telling her that it's ok to lead seperate lives, if I don't do I look like a needy wallflower waiting for her?

Honestly, I would say do what you feel like doing and don't worry about what she thinks. There's no way to figure out what they think.

I understand your dilemna; you want to set a good example but staying at home while she goes out is way too subtle for an alien to comprehend. So I would say go out if you can do it and enjoy yourself. If you're going to be tempted to check up on her at the club(s), that could be a problem; I wouldn't recommend that. (This from a guy who used to drive by his wife's apartment at all hours to make sure her car was still there)

Whatever you need to do for yourself.

hey, bear!

I haven't checked in for a while and just wanted to offer my support.

Also, think about this... do you have a close male friend who is aware of your "sitch"?

Tonight, shower up, dress up a bit more than usual, and tell WW you are going out. Go to your buddies house and watch movies, whatever, but leave a little mystery in where you are going/went, and what you did/didn't do.

Be looking good and smelling good when you go out the door.

Drives most WS's crazy...

SD

<small>[ January 07, 2005, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

I think all this is effort is futile right now. I have just become aware that for over a month WW has just been trying to figure out the next step in her plan to D (become financially more independant, save up funds, line up a place to live, etc.). I believe her mind has been made up for some time and there is really nothing I can do. It doesn't help that her support group is a WW going through a D and a W who was just recently left and D by her a**hole H.

They are all fogged and buy into her fog. I have been called a jerk, idiot, and everything else. For what, being a faithful H and trying to keep my family together, albeit going about it the wrong ways at times, but trying nonetheless. I have made mistakes, yes, but just want a do-over.

My WW is not leaving me for OM, she is leaving me for noone. She got caught in an A, now decides that she wants out. This M has spiraled out of control and I don't know if what is in motion can be stopped. Maybe I shouldn't stop it, learn from it and move on to a happier existence. No, I should give my best effort.

I'm here, buddy. Listen - in God's hands. Give it over to Him and let Him wrap you and your marriage in his arms and do whatever He is going to do. No, you cannot make it work all by yourself and that's why you're burning out. If that's what she does than so be it. All you can do is continue to love her and protect the love that you still have for her.

There's gonna be ups and downs and you just gotta try to ride it out.

I never counseled with MB over the phone but I've heard that they're great at bringing things into focus and helping get you pointed in the right direction. You might want to schedule a session. They are expensive but it might be worth it if you can manage it.

I'll be up for a little while - another 30 minutes or so and then I gotta get some sleep but I'll hang with you for awhile.

Thanks, you've been here all day for me.

No, I can't afford the SH sessions. I just feel that she is making a mistake she is going to regret (judgemental, yes). I see it and the people who care about her most see it. I step back and look at the picture, who is telling who what. Noone close to me has said, "just leave her", they are the ones who care most about this family. The ones who have been there and will always be there. Who is talking to her, people in A's, people who had A's, going through D's.

What is wrong with this picture? Of course I think she is getting bad advice from people who will not even be in her life a year or two from now. I mean, this is madness. Of all people, I should be the one hell bent on a D, when you really think about it, yet I am the one who is fighting the most to save our family.

In God's hands, funny, I just asked Him about 20 minutes ago to touch her heart, touch her soul as she sleeps. I hope He heard me.

Thing is, right now, I don't even care about the A's. I don't even care who she slept with when. I only care about us and preserving our M, our R. My focus, everything else is secondary.

Of course He heard you.

Yes, she's getting bad advice. And if she listens to and acts upon bad advice she will get very, very bad results. And then she might lapse into brilliance for a moment and ask herself why she is listening to a bunch of miserable unhappy people.

I really think there is hope for you and wife. I really do! But if she goes down that road that you think she's going down she it will dead end - I guarantee it.

God hates divorce. He is working with you - yes, God is on your side! There - I said it! He will, I pray, put obstacles in her path if she is going where He doesn't want her to go.

Maybe this is God's way of telling me I need to come back to Him. I am not a wicked man, but nice, kind, and caring. But I do not praise him enough and do not make him a big enough part of my life.