You and me both. My wife and I just started back to church after not going for about 10 years and it's been really good for us.

Is your wife a Christian?

Yes, we are both Catholic. I have 12 years of Catholic schooling. We were married by my uncle who is a priest. I have not been churchgoing enough, but never doubted God's existence or his works.

WW does not have the same background, yet is a believer. She prays.

How is your son doing with all of this?

He is fine, once WW moved back home from P's house. Here is the thing. I "forced" that move because DS behavior was going downhill fast. You see, that's it, WW didn't see it, nor did her supporters. Children aren't that affected by D, right. Yet, I saw it, our daycare provider saw it, and my support group saw it. His behavior has improved 1000x.

It is maddening to think how a D would affect him. I saw him most every night when we were apart. I just fear what a D is going to do to his life, how he views R and M.

WW saw that "forced" move as a me trying to control her. Trying to get her back. It did a lot of damage. I was not even thinking of her. I was thinking of DS. That was all I was thinking about.

I'm signing off for the night. Take care.

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Bear04 ]</small>

Yes, D is a terrible thing. And people think it's going to solve all of their problems; it never does. I don't why they think it will.

My parents divorced after 20 years of marriage and she regrets it. My dad is a good honest man but he did not show his feelings and so she did not think that he loved her and she was miserable and didn't know how to wake him up. The divorce just about killed him; I saw a strong man reduced to weakness. It was horrible to see him in such pain and not understand how he got there.

Had they known what to do they could have easily fixed it. He tried but he couldn't seem to pull it off. She had made up her mind. But then like I say she now wishes that she would have given it another chance. She's been married and divorced 3 times now. They are both good people but they just couldn't get it together.

Well I hate to bail on you but gotta get some sleep so I'll check back in the morning.

Bear? Are you OK? Check in please.

Wisdom, well I don't know how much I can give. I'm OK. This has been the hardest week so far, harder than the week of Dday. That week I was in total shock, but this week, I don't know, it is just different.

Something to share. For Xmas I bought DS his own TV & VCR/DVD for his room. He's going to be three and I would rather he get his fill of Blues Clues in his room. Plus, our whole M sitch really started going downhill after he was born (not his fault, ours) because to this day he sleeps in our bed. Well, I don't anymore, not by my choice. Anyways, as he grew, there was no room for me in it.

Well, today I find out WW was upset that I bought him a TV for Xmas rather than a big boy bed for his room. First, right after the gift was opened I commented how i would get him his bed top go with it when I got my year end bonus (Monday, yeah). So tonight I mention that we could go to breakfast in nearby city tmrw and afterwards go pick out his bed. WW open to that, but doesn't want to go out of town because she has a lot of housework to do. Sidenote, she has been a cleaning freak lately. This from a lady who didn't do a dang thing the whole time her A was ongoing.

Two things here. One, she is really trying to play good housekeeping mom. Two, she wants to get him bed so he can get moved out of our room. And maybe I can move back in?

I can't read her. It is business as usual as far as planning goes (buying stuff for house, etc) but she talks to lawyer this week? i don't get it. If I didn't know about the lawyer thing, I would be happy and think we were on are way. Except for the lack of affection and total no attention she pays to me.

WW went to game with GFs (BTW, she looked gorgeous when she left) and I am going out with BIL to the bars here in a few minutes. OK, I am totally physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausted but am going out so as not to appear as a wallflower and it might do me some good. DS is happily playing with cousins at MILs, just dropped him off. I was offline all day, enjoying our time together. We went to McD's for lunch and then watched the heavy equipment work at a jobsite (loves the dozers). WW went to lunch with SIL, asked my permission, again.

I'll copy this on my thread because i want to keep this on my record.

BTW, going to 8:30 mass tmrw. First time, long time. I will ask WW if she would like to join, if she'd like, her choice.

Well, nothing much new here. WW & I never did have the talk we were supposed to have this weekend. Went out Sat and had a good time. Got home late, 3:30 AM, maybe spurred some jealosy I hope. Didn't do anything bad, just had a good time.

We went out for lunch Sun and spent a decent day together, although it was filled with a lot of silent moments. I would love to talk more with her, but it seems like whenever I try to start a conversation, I have to carry that conversation. It is a bit one sided and I am sure puts her off a bit. So I just remain silent and enjoy the fact that WW is spending time w/me.

Feelings for the day. I write them here because it gets them out of my system. Today my mood is, oh, how do you say, ahhh whatever. I feel that WW and I can have a happy life together, but I don't know if it will be fulfilling. There is so much baggage now. I have read the recovery stories on here and how happy they are, I just wonder if it will be the same for us...if we get there.

That brings me to this. WW has said all along I was a good man (except for initial fog blasts) and treated her well and don't deserve this treatment and that I deserve better than her. She just keeps repeating that the sexual feelings are not there...and haven't been. That I am like her brother or a good roomate.

Big question? I feel like I am in a plan A rut. I fulfill all the provider needs. Taking care of her, maiking life easier, being a good father, but I need to make a splash in the affection and bedroom areas. WW is not receptive at all to any sort of advances. I fear that we may just be in/get into a rut of this that we cannot get out of. Any suggestions as to what I can do to make her find me more attractive and start to see me in a different way. A way in which she just can't wait to jump me rather than just settling for me.

Bear,

This is a tough one. I think we've all gotten the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech at one point or another. My wife, in fact, told me pretty much the same thing that your wife told you: that she felt like she was living with her brother, and that the passion was gone.

Well....four month's later, our marriage probably has more passion in it than it's ever had.

How did we get here? The end of the A played a huge role, of course. Both of our eyes were opened wide by what happened. But I think we've also benefitted from some very frank discussions about sex and the role it plays in our relationship. We've made a concerted effort to be together and stay connected.

I know your case is different because your wife isn't showing much of an interest in putting humpty-dumpty back together again. Let me ask you this: what was it that made her fall in love with you in the first place? And..what made you fall in love with her?

Honestly, during MC that is the same question our MC asked. I talked for minutes about what I saw in my W, why I fell for her. She said I was nice. Great. Nice. Well, I guess I've also proven myself to be honest, trustworthy, and someone who is safe for her. We've had this discussion. I knew some of her old boyfriends, her history. That I hope she realized that the one person who loved and cared for her and never treated her like crap is the one she [censored] on the most. Doesn't make sense. I said this the night of Dday #2.

To tell you the truth, when we got together, we went after it like monkeys in heat. That was a long time ago. Man, that was great. I'd love to go back to those days.

I think she is just too comfortable with me. Well, uncomfortable now, but I'm like an old shoe.

So my WW had a IC session on Tuesday night. Now, usually after one of these sessions she comes home full of p!ss and vinegar. Not this time. She was, well, not all lovey dovey, but rather in a decent mood. She then told me that I needed to schedule a session for next week (IC) which I scheduled to happen right after her IC session.

So I am thinking, I guess she may not want a D and may want to save this M. I would be very suspicious if next week was an MC session where I would get the "news" broke to me that she wanted a D, in a controlled environment. But, that is not the case, these are IC sessions.

On the homefront, it is getting to be more natural to interact with WW (I might tag her the FWW moniker, I am not sure yet, I would like to hear her plans and some concrete proof of her commitment to M). There is no affection towards me, and she still doesn't go out of her way to meet any of my needs, seems I do everything w/nothing in return (the essence of plan A), but there is much less tension and it is becoming easier to talk. I even get multiple sentence responses from her, a change from the one word responses and shrug of shoulders I used to get.

GDBD- received The Art of Seduction in mail yesterday. Flipped through but haven't read anything, yet. Looks good, though.

Hey Bear,

You've been pretty quiet lately. Glad to hear that things seem to be better; less tension is good. I think that she will eventually open up when she feels that it's safe to do so. She probably has a lot of stuff bouncing around in her head right now. She may not want to share it with you for fear of hurting you or making you angry.

I don't know... just relating to my own situation. I had to learn to just sit there and let my wife say anything she wanted without getting mad or acting hurt. I think that it helped her get rid of her anger and resentment when she figured out that no matter what kind of ugliness she spouted I was not going to react or punish her.

Once she opens up a little then I think you will be on the road towards having more affection.

Just hanging in there. Just have some newly found confidence that life will turn out just fine for me, either way. That attitude might be sensed by FWW as well.

That is very good, and very true.

Need a pep talk. I am in a very disgruntled mood today. FWW got home at 9PM from work last night. No big deal as she was visiting a friend in the hospital, it's just that there is something EVERY night. I feel like all the burden for caring for and saving this family is on me. I take care of our DS every day both pre and post daycare. FWW puts him to bed at night, THAT'S IT. I have logged and tracked everything for the past month, nothing different than pre Dday, it has been like this for 1 1/2yrs.

This morning, I am running late, got to get to work. DS needs to be woken, dressed, and taken to daycare. FWW has the day off, but is going to pickup GF at hospital. Not begrudging that, very nice of her. So, of course, it is up to me to get DS ready. I don't say anything but she can maybe tell I am a little peeved. Makes excuse as to why she cannot help get DS ready, says she has to get going. Makes the statement, "Well, (GF) doesn't have anybody.." I think to myself, "Neither do I."

I ask her if she could start my truck for me to get it warmed up, unfortunately at the end of that request I let slip an "at least". FWW says what is that supposed to mean (takes offense). I replied nothing, it just came out wrong. What I really meant to say is if she wanted to help me she could start my vehicle as she left. Whatever. You all know what I really meant.

So lately I have been asking myself why I really want to stay M to this person. What does she bring to this M? I get no real support for caring for family. Her needs to eat dinner with her friends, or doing what she wants to do but leaving the child rearing to me are getting kinda old. I love taking care of DS, but I am worn out by the end of the day. After work I pick up DS. This week we went grocery shopping, last night haircuts, every night fix us dinner, give him bath, watch Spongebob, etc. I was sooo tired last night by the time FWW got home. Then I was thinking, plan A, time to reach out and save the M now. Screw it. I am exhausted and why is it me that always has to initiate things? What is the point? She doesn't appreciate anything I do, I take care of everything on my own. What does she bring to this M? I get no love, affection, or recognition for what I do. All she brings is lies, deceit, infidelity. Great.

Thank the Lord I go to talk to IC next week, an appointment set up by FWW. Wonder how that is going to be. Probably break me the news that FWW wants a D, maybe prep me for it.

So, remind me, what do I do it all for?

Bear,

I don't have much for you in the way of a pep talk or even time right now to post. All that I can advise is to ask God for help with this. I'll try to get back with you later.

Hopefully somebody else can jump in here with some encouragement...

You're doing it for an ideal. It's so hard right now because there is such a huge chasm between the ideal (love, marriage, God, commitment, the perfect family, whatever your choice is) and flawed human reality that it is hard to keep the ideal in sight.

It might be easier, and you may not want to hear this, if you remember that you, as a human being, as any human being is, are just as flawed as she is.