POsted by AndrewA*****************************

Lemonman - if you have a minute, some perspective would be welcome. My wife is going to college to become a nurse. The program she's in now will qualify her as an LPN. Lately, she has begun to think very seriously about becoming a doctor. (She is still young - just 28.)Now...I know you see this kind of thing on shows like ER. But in real life, do you know of many nurses who have made the transition? It seems to me that someone in that postion would have a bit of an advantage, since he or she would enter medical school with more medical knowledge than the average new student. But, I'm curious about whether you see any potential bumps in the road.*************************************

Well AndrewA:

I do have some experience with medical school admissions so I will give you my perspective. Despite what many people think, your wife will likely NOT have an advantage in gaining admission to medical school coming from a nursing background. The admissions commitees usually look at allied health applicants (i.e. Nurses, PA's, chiropractors, etc..) with more scrutiny. The age old question will be: why did this applicant leave a good profession for medicine? and the applicants true commitmment will be definitely questioned. I have known 2 nurses who have made the successful transition to medical school but in each instance there were other extenuating circumstances. Both applicants had very very strong academic back grounds to compete for a spot in a medical school class. If your wife completes her RN degree and in the process ALSO takes the rigorous premed science courses than she might be playing on an equal playing field when it comes time for applications . I know this may not be what you want to hear. If I was your wife, and I really really wanted to be a doctor I would put off pursuing any type of nursing degree and immerse my self FULL TIME in a premed study program (a degree can be obtained in whatever she wants) . I know that many people's first instinct is to say go for nursing and try for medical school later and then if you don't get in then you have soomething to fall back on...That is not optimal advice if your first TRUE desire is to be a doctor. If you want big rewards, you have to take big chances. Medical Schools will certainly look at non-traditional applicants like your wife (older than 26, kids, other career) etc..but now is the time to start thinking of the long term future here. The decisions she makes now can set her back years if she doesn't plan it right. Be advised that one has to apply to medical school one year in advance of the matriculation date.

Your wife should really look at her true desire to become a doctor. The desire to "help" people is not enough. There are a ton of excellent health professions that she can do this with. The road to becoming a physician is a long, ardous, painful...and exhilarating experience. ANdrew, YOU NEED to understand also what this decision for her will mean for you and your beautiful children. Long nights studying, stress of constant exams, being on call every third night, demeaning educational experiences, etc... There is no question that physicians divorce rates, alcohol, drug, and suicide rates are HIGHER than average rates. An RN now days can command almost any job she wants and the pay is good to. There is an extreme demand for RN's, so she should weigh everything carefuuly.

However....In my opinion, there is no better job in the world than to be a doctor...I am blessed to be doing this, but I would be lying to you if many a long sleepless night I didn't question this road I took. Please feel free to post to me any other questions. I would be delighted in helping your wife in deciding on a medical career.

LM

Leomnoman,

Thank you!

I know right now my wife is very enthusiastic about the path she is pursuing in life. Being a doctor is a dream of hers. I think you are right, though: if it's what she wants to do, then we should cut to the chase and do it. She's in a community college now, taking some general ed and beginning science classes and doing really well! She says that college has been an awakening for her. Needless to say, I am incredibly proud of her!

She also mentioned that she may have a desire eventually to teach nursing. I think she'd be great at that.

Anyway, I value your insight and honesty. I'm sure I will pick your brain more as we go forward.

Any questions or concerns I would be happy to address...please feel free to ask away. Hey, this is something that I at least feel I have the qualifications to post about here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LM

Andrew:

Just wanted to ask you something personal. Was the congenital heart defect your child had a Hypoplastic Left Ventricle or Tetralogy of Fallot. I couldn't be sure from your post. I was just curious. I am gonna make a small contribution to the Ronald Mcdonald House because of your situation. It may not be much, but every little bit helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ok guys saw this and HAD to add my .02! I am an RN (with more than one degree) so feel somewhat qualified to enter the fray!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Although medicine and nursing are both health care professions the philosophy and focus of each can be very different. Does your W understand this difference? Which philosophy most fits with her own moral/ethical framework? There also some huge commmonalities...lots of repsonsibility, lots of long hours, lots of ongoing education, lots of sacrfices, having skills taken for granted...

Is she prepared for the commitment? Qualifying for either a nursing degree or a degree in medicine can be very competitive and gruelling(at least where I am it is). That's just to get in and doesn't even include the program itself. It can also be very competitive to get in and then try to stay at the top so you are eligible for the best positions afterwards.

As LM said, the desire to "help people" isn't enough. The $$$ won't make anyone happy or make a difference if the profession is not a passion to begin with. As noble as it is to want to help the expectation is that MDs and RNs will technically excellent, all of the time. Just wanting to help isn't enough. Hope that doesn't sound too harsh.

There is a huge knowledge and theory leap between RN and LPN. I'm not belittling any group here. Just pointing out that community college courses may not accurately reflect what university courses are all about. I'm not belittling MD's, they come in handy once in awhile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . What I'm saying is that it is very important to thoroughly understand each profession, it's education process, it's time commitment after completion and the level of responsibility.

I've never regretted becoming a nurse. I wish I had the time and funds to educate people as to exactly what nursing is...I think there are alot of misconceptions out there. What I suggest to anyone looking into the health care professions is that you do your homework before you apply. Explore the philosohies of all and find the best fit. Find out what it takes to get to the finish line.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong> Ok guys saw this and HAD to add my .02! I am an RN (with more than one degree) so feel somewhat qualified to enter the fray!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Although medicine and nursing are both health care professions the philosophy and focus of each can be very different. Does your W understand this difference? Which philosophy most fits with her own moral/ethical framework? There also some huge commmonalities...lots of repsonsibility, lots of long hours, lots of ongoing education, lots of sacrfices, having skills taken for granted...

Is she prepared for the commitment? Qualifying for either a nursing degree or a degree in medicine can be very competitive and gruelling(at least where I am it is). That's just to get in and doesn't even include the program itself. It can also be very competitive to get in and then try to stay at the top so you are eligible for the best positions afterwards.

As LM said, the desire to "help people" isn't enough. The $$$ won't make anyone happy or make a difference if the profession is not a passion to begin with. As noble as it is to want to help the expectation is that MDs and RNs will technically excellent, all of the time. Just wanting to help isn't enough. Hope that doesn't sound too harsh.

There is a huge knowledge and theory leap between RN and LPN. I'm not belittling any group here. Just pointing out that community college courses may not accurately reflect what university courses are all about. I'm not belittling MD's, they come in handy once in awhile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . What I'm saying is that it is very important to thoroughly understand each profession, it's education process, it's time commitment after completion and the level of responsibility.

I've never regretted becoming a nurse. I wish I had the time and funds to educate people as to exactly what nursing is...I think there are alot of misconceptions out there. What I suggest to anyone looking into the health care professions is that you do your homework before you apply. Explore the philosohies of all and find the best fit. Find out what it takes to get to the finish line. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MGM:

Your post was marvelous. I could not have said it any better myself. Andrews wife is getting some great advice here. I think you are right with regards to the "misconception of nursing". Even an A-hole, arrogant surgeon like me knows who "really treats the patient" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good Post.

LOL, LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's all about having the best healthcare team! No "I" in team...

Have a great day. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll have a pc day today here at MB! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong> LOL, LM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll have a pc day today here at MB! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you know...it is always such a struggle for me..LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lemonman,

First, thank you very much for supporting the Ronald McDonald House! It really benefitted our family.

Interesting story: my daughter was diagnosed in utero with Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome. We were prepared for the worst. Our local hosiptal couldn't handle her surgery, so they were going to airlift her to Philadelphia right after birth.

Well..my wife went for an appointment with her OB/GYN the day before her C-section. And..the OB/GYN asked which side the baby's heart problem was on. My wife told her the left. But..the OB/Gyn said that it appeared to be the RIGHT ventricle that was the problem. She consulted with a colleague who said that it did indeed seem to be a right ventricle problem.

That gave us some hope because they could do the right ventricle repair locally - and her long-term prognosis was somewhat better.

Already long story short: all of us - including our cardiologist - were relieved to find that indeed she did not have HLHS.

I'm told that these kind of mixups happen more often than people realize. For us, it may have been a blessing in disguise. We were steeled for the worst. And while we still had a sick baby, we knew that we would be able to handle the challenges of caring for her.

(She's since had three open-heart procedures, one of which nearly killed her, and she is doing absolutely great!)

One other interesting aspect of this story: her identical twin had a less severe version of the same defect. She was able to avoid surgery, instead having just a single catherterization.

MGM,

Thanks for your perspective! My wife has a real passion for nursing that comes from her experience as a mother of a sick child. I know that she admired the skill and compassion of the nurses who cared for our daughter in the PICU...and whose knowledge and even-keel helped us deal with an incredibly stressful time in our lives.

Her eventual goal is to become an RN. She's in a program right now that will lead to an LPN. But..she's already making plans beyond that to get a BSN in nursing.

I do think she needs to settle the doctor question in her mind before she gets much further along.

I do have one question, though: in your experience, will the nursing classes that my wife takes now transfer to a BSN program? She has clinicals and a bunch of "advanced" nursing classes she has to take next year. (She's finishing her general Ed stuff now.)

Should she be prepared for the possibility of starting over again once she gets to a University?

Honestly, it depends on the program. In my experience RN programs have not given equivalent credit for LPN courses. As I said before, LPN and RN are two different things. LPN is very skills focused. RN's learn and master these skills too, but in addition to that they learn all the theory and master more complex skills that are out of a LPN's scope of practice. The "why"...the reasons and the physiology is important in nursing. RN's are also now taught to think critically about issues, this is not a big part of the LPN program, as far as I know. An RN's education and understanding is much more indepth.

The reason it is unlikely your W would get credit is that she is coming from a skills focus and not an RN focus. That being said, she would probably excel in her first couple of years of RN training because she does have basic skills. Her stress and anxiety levels would be lower since she has already had exposure.

My suggestion, if being an RN is her goal and she has the pre-requisite courses, is to talk to some RN's. See what they do, how they problem solve, what their work is really all about. People unfortunately, only see a very small part of what nursing really is. She needs to explore this profession in a realistic light. Know what she is getting into... Then, if she is convinced it is the profession for her I would encourage her to develop exceptional study habits, keep her grades up and apply to a BSN program.

Just so you know RN is a licensing designation. It means registered nurse. An RN can have a diploma or can have a BSN. Passing the licensing exam is what gives us the designation RN. One can have a BSN and if one does not pass the exam one cannot call oneself and RN.

Hope this helps.

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

Hiya...just have to say I agree wholeheartedly with what mgm has said. I'm an RN, albeit in Oz, not in the US. There are definitely some huge differences philosphically between nursing and medicine most of the time (that can vary, depending on the individual doctor, of course). And, although it pains me to say it (only joking), doctors do make some horrendous sacrifices to get to a point where they can qualify. At one stage, I considered doing medicine. My marks were good enough to enter the post-grad programme for medicine in my city (medical training is a little different in Oz). Anyway, one I was out doing my nursing pracs, I realized that with 3 children, and being a single mother, there was absolutely NO WAY I could manage the committment required to complete medicine. I also reassessed why it was I was doing nursing as opposed to medicine. And in the end, I decided I had made the right choice initially. I think the lure of the extra dollars was a factor, as well as the thought that I really did have the brains to do medicine - so perhaps an ego part as well. Anyway, enough of my story..just wanted to say that mgm had hit the nail on the head. Best wishes to your wife in her endeavours.

Moira.