My WH is still in contact with OW. He still lives at home but sleeps on the couch. He says he sleeps on the couch because he doesn't want to use me if he doesn't feel a certain way. Also said he doesn't want to be with two women.

What do I say when he says these things? Also I asked him if he doesn't want to be with me why is he still living here. He said because he is stuck with no place else to go. Also said that he doesn't want to be with me because he doesn't feel the way he should about me. Of course he once did but he can't see that his feelings changed when she started becoming more than just a friend to him.

I told him if he wants a divorce he knows what he has to do. I just don't know why one day he is so sweet, caring and the man I married. Then the next day he is back to the butt again. Just like last night we were joking around about something and I made a comment. I said " you never know maybe you will decide to guess us a chance." He said "maybe." Before he would have said nope. Course today he said that he didn't want to try that he already knew things wouldn't change. That he would be wasting my time sense he didn't feel the way he should.

I will do plan B once he actually moves out. But until then I feel like I am stuck in limbo. I may go stay with my mom for a few days. Just to get away. Course that will give the lovebirds the chance to talk to each other all hours of the night.

Tonight he was very tired and frustrated about work. I think he takes it out on me. Sometimes saying things he doesn't really mean. He will even admit that at times. But it hurts.

Do most WS not want to touch, kiss or sleep in the same bed? Guess that makes me feel like his mind is set and there is no hope. He is loyal to her but if he would have shown me the same benefit then we would never be in this situation.

Force him out now...no matter what it takes. The longer you are with him, you can't move forward. Just see your WH for what he is.....not some romantacized version of him that probably never existed. There is no limbo allowed here. Let him go, you can't force him to love and be the man that you and your daughter need. ----------> OUT

LM

He does not want to be with 2 women. Fog babble. Just by living in your home and taking advantage of your hospitality he is with 2 women.

He says he doesn't have any place to go. More fog babble. He does. The OW. Let her meet all of his needs.

SML, there is more fog babble in your post. He is spewing it out soo fast, he is probably spitting up WS venom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Go to where you are safe. If he renders his family homeless as a result, it w/b his fault. If you go to your mom's will you be safe? Will you be able to get back into your home?

You are being subjected to horrible amounts of spousal abuse. Don't let him tell you it is anything less. Let him know that you found out that what he is doing equates to spousal abuse, punishable by the law. Don't go into details, just let that sit in the pit of his craw.

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadMarylandLady:
<strong> My WH is still in contact with OW. He still lives at home but sleeps on the couch. He says he sleeps on the couch because he doesn't want to use me if he doesn't feel a certain way. Also said he doesn't want to be with two women.

This is balony. He doesn't want to have any connection with you right now..has nothing to do with fairness or morailty. His heart is with her.

What do I say when he says these things? Also I asked him if he doesn't want to be with me why is he still living here. He said because he is stuck with no place else to go. Also said that he doesn't want to be with me because he doesn't feel the way he should about me. Of course he once did but he can't see that his feelings changed when she started becoming more than just a friend to him.

So..he doesn't mind using you after all..for room and board. If he staunchly insists that his heart is with her..he can take his body there as well and let her care for it.

I told him if he wants a divorce he knows what he has to do.

He doesn't have to do anything but live out this fantasy until YOU pull down the foundation of the construct. Remove your support.



I will do plan B once he actually moves out. But until then I feel like I am stuck in limbo. I may go stay with my mom for a few days. Just to get away. Course that will give the lovebirds the chance to talk to each other all hours of the night.

I think it is a mistake to allow him to be the author of this decision. He is overtly disrespectfull..I'd show him to the door and plan B now..especially because it is so inconvenient.

Tonight he was very tired and frustrated about work. I think he takes it out on me. Sometimes saying things he doesn't really mean. He will even admit that at times. But it hurts.

Stop allowing him to get away with this. If you have a bad day at work..do you beat your children? Same concept.

Do most WS not want to touch, kiss or sleep in the same bed? Guess that makes me feel like his mind is set and there is no hope.

Don't give it that much credit. It is indicative that he is withdrawn from you. Nothing more. SOP for WSs.

He is loyal to her but if he would have shown me the same benefit then we would never be in this situation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She makes him feel good..for now. He is loyal to his own pleasure..nothing more. If he had adequate standards in place you wouldn't be where you are now. There is much growth needing to occur on your Hs future in order for him to be a more or less adequate spouse and father. Perhaps he will choose to embrace it..perhaps not. Deal with what is in front of you to the best of your ability..no one can see all ends.

How is the baby doing? Have you got a support system in place to help you through the baby blues? Look out for it in a few weeks.

Noodle

Um...some sort of tech difficulty.

You have to read the quote to see most of my reply.

Not sure how I managed that.

This dread machine!

Noodle

I know I say this ALL the time....but I'm going to say it yet again.

People treat you the way you ALLOW them to treat you.

Your H says that he's "stuck" there with you because he has nowhere to go? He's "stuck" there because you are allowing him to do as he pleases. He's getting his cake and eating it too.

He needs to be out of the house. Let the OW take care of him for a while, so you can retain your sanity.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will do plan B once he actually moves out. But until then I feel like I am stuck in limbo. I may go stay with my mom for a few days. Just to get away. Course that will give the lovebirds the chance to talk to each other all hours of the night. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What about modifying it for now while he's IN the house. Go about your business.....since he's so convinced that it's not going to work out....don't give him the time of the day.

As for going to your moms? Why should you have to...make him go somewhere.

He really isn't going to see what he's missing.....until he's REALLY missing it.
Not a guarentee that he will want to come home....but at least you won't be having to put up with the crap.

You said this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him if he wants a divorce he knows what he has to do. I just don't know why one day he is so sweet, caring and the man I married. Then the next day he is back to the butt again. Just like last night we were joking around about something and I made a comment. I said " you never know maybe you will decide to guess us a chance." He said "maybe." Before he would have said nope. Course today he said that he didn't want to try that he already knew things wouldn't change. That he would be wasting my time sense he didn't feel the way he should.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's classic.

He's got you on a line.....when he feels the line is being tugged on by you (in the wrong direction) he does something to reel you back in. Hence the return of the sweet man you married.....at least for a little bit...till he feels he has you back where he wants you. Then it's back to....it won't work...blah blah blah.

Please....I've heard it all....not gonna work, I can't stand the sight of you, you need to start dating.....but in the end....every time I tried to pull away.....he got a wild hair up his butt and reeled me back in. It's a cycle...and one that's damned hard to get out of.

YOU need to take control of this situation and quit letting your H walk all over you and you need to quit LETTING him make you feel this way.

All i can say at this point is counseling, counseling, counseling for YOU. Of course, it would be preferable to do it with SH but I know the money factor is a major reason people don't counsel w/him. but i would almost bet that SH would tell you what many have told you here already. SH even helped me w/things to say to my WH, would even give me time to write it down. I would say to SH what if he says this or that and he would even give me time to write down what he said. and i just kept a notebook and would bring it out anytime i had contact w/my h (usually on the phone or by mail).

your WH CANNOT meet any of your needs right now and do not expect him to change because certainly you can't make him change and he won't change until his life starts going down the drain and that's not going to happen as long as you do not let him expereince some of the consequences of his choices. expect the worse and hope for the best and it won't surprise you the way he is. you could even find it comical and laugh at it.

have you ever read the lostva story? her h got real mean with her, even moved in w/the OW, but she never let things consume her and was even able to laugh at the things her H would say and she just continued to be sweet and he evenutally came back. i think he had even filed for D, not sure though. to be blunt you have got to stop enabling your WH and let him use you.

prayers to you and don't forget to seek the counsel of God, RR

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

" She makes him feel good..for now. He is loyal to his own pleasure..nothing more "

Thats what its all about.

SML,

The best thing my W did was force me out. It was WAY to easy while we were living togeather for me to play down what I had done. While I never wanted my OW in that aspect, what I did want was totally wrong for a married man.

While we were living togeather I wasnt FORCED to see what I had done, the damage it had created.

Tell him if he si so commited to the relationship with OW and she commited to him, he has a place to go. I mean would this WONDERFUL woman really let him be homeless.

And dont worry about it helping their relationship. They will end up seeing the bad parts of each other in the process.

While he is living with you it is to easy for him to only show her the good of him and you the bad of him. He " Reserves " his best for her, and lets himslef go with you. How long do you think that would last?

As usual I am the dissenting voice.

It may be that he is being honest with you.

He isn't living with the ow. This is a good thing.

He cares for you, but he feels guilty for being unfaithful. He doesn't feel like he has the right to be in your bed after what he has done, and while he still has feelings for her.

Why not tell him that you understand, and that you respect him for that.

Why not quietly, gently plan A him, and allow him time to sort himself out.

It may be that he is starting to get tired of her, and the whole mess, and he knows that things aresn't going anywhere with her, but he doesn't know quite how to extricate himself from it.

My advice is to be gentle and loving, be patient with him, pray for him to have the courage to do the right thing.

When you notice that he is tired and stressed about work, rub his shoulders a bit- brief non-sexual touch...to let him know you care about him.

He is your flesh. He is yours. Win him 'without a word', by your loving ways.

I think he is gradually coming out of the fog.

Shul

Thank you everyone for your support. I know that he needs to go. He reminds me that I gave him 30 days to find somewhere to go. Really he has no place to go. His sister may take him back but not with his friend in tow. I told him last night maybe he could move in with OW. He didn't say anything.

I think I may have a little postpartum depression. I do cry a lot. Sometimes I am find then I just break down. The baby is a wonderful baby she is so easy to take care of. Which makes it much easier for me.

Shul,
Your thoughts really hit home. Because that is the way I feel in my heart about what he says. I really feel that maybe he is confused and he doesn't want to give me the wrong idea by sharing our bed until he is sure. Until then I think he will continue with OW.

I guess the good I see is that he does not call her much anymore. It use to be 3-4 hours a day. Now at the most it's 40 minutes. Sometimes hardly at all. I know things are not peachy with him and OW. She is also putting pressure on him. I see little signs of him trying to end things. But he doesn't want to hurt her either. But he cannot gradually do it. Or it probably won't happen at all.

I like the motified plan B that Miss P suggested and I also like your idea of plan A and give him time to sort it out. My biggest problem is I cannot FORCE him out of his home. I already talked to a lawyer about it. I can continue to suggest and remind him if he really wants a divorce he has to be separated for a year so he needs to find someplace to live to start that year.

Can you force the sale of the house?

Noodle

Actually that is what he wants. He wants me to sale the house. We will make a profit of about 100k. He said to pay off all our bills and then I can have the rest of the money.

I guess I just don't want to deal with that whole mess right now. I don't want to take our kids out of their home. I don't want to think about finding a apartment. I have been a stay at home mom for several years. I work for my SIL for a few hours a week but nothing that I could support myself with. I can't even imagine dealing with selling the house, moving, new baby and my husband leaving me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

My husband says he feels stuck. In a way I feel the same. As much as I want him here I want him here because he wants to be here. Not because this is his only option. And I don't want him here going out and calling OW and going to see her when he feels like it. He cannot continue to play those games. When he goes down to North Carolina at the end of the month. If he meets OW that is it. He can find someplace to stay even if it's with her.

Time to *unstuck* him.

Nothing is sacred. Least of all a replaceable stack of bricks and wood. If he needs to leave..and won't..make won't into must.

Just because he *says* that selling the house is what he wants..remember..it is based on his fantasy not reality.

No matter what YOUR life has been irrevocably altered..so plan for the future..plan for a long haul..plan for independence..hope for the best..work towards it.

Noodle

Thanks noodle for your words. I have been told many times I allow my fear to hold me back. I see that now.

When my husband moved out in Oct for two months and lived with his sister. I didn't think I would make it. But after two weeks I started to realize I COULD survive without him. I still wanted him in my life. But I know I don't need him. Sometimes I hold on so much because I fear being alone, starting over, becoming a single mom and losing the one man I ever really loved. I know I lost a piece of myself when I met my husband. He became my whole world. Now I need to discover ME again.

My SIL talked to my husband at lunch yesterday. He told her it's not about another woman. That he feels stuck, his life is going nowhere, he is bored and needs to find himself. That if he isn't happy he can't make another person happy. She told him to take some time for himself. Without contact with OW or me and see how he feels. When he moved to his sisters the first time I wanted him to do that. But instead he pursued OW even more.

It may not be all about OW but I know most of how he feels started after he met her. Sometimes I just sit and wonder what is so wrong with me? How can someone be with me seven years and so easily want to leave me? Not seem to care at all. He feels he can take care of me and make things right by giving me money. I don't want to be bought off. Money is not happiness to me. And his children need more than a paycheck coming in. All I ever wanted was to be loved by him. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

SML,

I feel your pain as I'm kind of in the same sitch. My WW also doesn't want me touching her "it wouldn't be fair, cuz I don't know what I want." My WW is also in a 'finding self' mode. I also think its less of an OM thing for my WW then a growing up and maturity thing.

So to answer you question about WS's, yes I think part of them not wanting you to touch them (affection or SF) is maybe guilt, punishing you ( think my WW is partly doing this as punishment to me), or maybe just actually not wanting to "use" us BS's.

I wish I had the answer, but everyone's sitch is different.

Native

My xWH said all these things, needed to find self, wasnt about OW, he wasnt happy, was bored, didnt want to leave but didnt want to be affectionate towards me either, because it wasnt fair to me! He said ALL and everyone of these same things. I put up with this for 1 yr. (too long) didnt know whether to plan a or plan b half the time. I tried justifying everything, just looking for the crumbs he gave me also. Then, I woke up and said NO More...not one more day of this and told him he needed to go find his own happiness, helped him pack his things, hugged and kissed him, told him I loved him and sent him to the arms of OW! I only wish that I would have taken this stance long before, because I know without a doubt that this was finally the turning point for him!! Now he says if I would have continued to allow him to fence sit he would still be doing it. He says he missed everything, his home, his dog, he wanted his life back, I did not pressure him at all, did not call him at all, he went to her and was finally free to do whatever he wanted and he found out thats NOT what he thought all this time he wanted! He now says he lost his mind for a time.
Just wanted to let you know that I have been exactly where you are without question and I feel for you.

It's just so funny how his actions are so predictable. For five days he was totally loving, caring and I saw the man I met and fell in love with. He barely called her those five days. I knew though things would change. He went back to calling her a little more then that is when I started hearing all the foggy crap again.

He called from work today. I asked him if he was still in one of his moods. I told him he hurt me last night by the things he said. He said he was tired and still is. I said that is no reason to take it out on me.

Sabot,
I have read some of your posts. I can really relate to a lot of your story. Our WH seem very similar. I know what I need to do. Guess I am afraid. But I cannot let fear guide me. Thanks for letting me know I am not the only one hearing these things. Everytime I hear him spout off foggy things I start to give up and feel there is no hope for us.

The OW is posting things on her away message on instant messanger. She said today that she was naughty last night. Several nights ago she posted she met a guy that was a writer. And some other things. I really hope she finds someone down there and leaves my husband alone. I think this will force him to do NC if she tells him she has someone else. He told me the other night that the OW has been having thoughts of backing off. He seemed upset about it. I think things are starting to get a little shaky with them. I just had his baby, he moved back home, she doesn't really know what he is doing with me, he barely calls her anymore and they rarely see each other. I think those things are really bugging her.

I am trying to get everything in order and workout a plan when my husband does leave. I know I need to get my ducks in a row and focus on making my own happiness for my kids and me.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: SadMarylandLady ]</small>

I found out my husband is going down to North Carolina for New Years which is also his Birthday. I asked him if I could go along. I would have my mom watch the kids and we could go out together. He said no. I know already that he will be with OW. He said "It's my birthday, I should be able to spend it with whoever I want."

That really made me sad. Before he goes I will sit down and talk to him. I will let him know if he plans on being with her that I don't think he should come back home. That is to disrespectful and it will hurt to much. I will also give him my plan B letter before he leaves.

Tonight I called him at work. He sounds so distant and depressed again. I have a feeling it has something to do with OW. But I could be wrong. Tonight I am not even going to talk about our R. Because I already know the things I will hear. Tonight I will be pleasant. And do plan A as much as possible. Also I think I will just do my thing and go to bed early. Let him alone may do some good.

Know what would be the best thing in the world to happen to you?

You give him The Plan B Letter to end all Plan B Letters.

He goes to OW.

She dumps him 'cause she is having sex with other people now, and his baggage is no fun anymore.

Then he has to deal with, ya know, that little thing called reality.

I'm crossing my fingers.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadMarylandLady:
<strong> I will let him know if he plans on being with her that I don't think he should come back home. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't think so?

SML, I'm not sure whether I've posted to you, but I really feel for you. I can understand how difficult this situation is. In fact, it has become my belief that, for some BS's, it's more a matter of weakness than strength that they put up with some of this nonsense. (Of course, that may not be a very popular opinion around here, but I'm believing it more every day.)

But, listen to your language. "You don't think" means you're still going to let him call the shots and run rough-shod over you. And, he knows it. He's got it made.

I wonder. . . would he be allowed to live with the OW, or is there a problem there? If you stopped providing him a place to hang his hat, what would he do? Stand up and be a man?? Think about it.

God bless,
PM