I've been married almost 20 years... husband is verbally/emotionally abusive. He's a control freak. He isolated me from friends, family, took away all access to money, etc. for years. Four years ago, I began to go through a personal growth that gave me this desire to stand up to him and not fear him (thank you Lord). When he realized I no longer was 'afraid' of him, he began to back down. Now I am in college, making many of my own decisions, although my paycheck still goes straight to him and I never get any money! BUT, the self confidence he stole from me is coming back... but I still hold so much bitterness for him and hatred. Emotionally he has not been there for me.....ever. I turned to a male friend for emotional support, and that's exactly what he's been. An affair of the heart began between us before we realized it. But at the same time, I wouldn't still be married without his support and encouragement to remain married. My question is: Will my husband ever change? Or is it time to move on? three kids 17,13,7 and they have all felt the brunt of his control and verbal abuse. D 17 even asked one day why I was so stupid to remain married to him. S 13 asked me why we couldn't divorce dad and move out. They were both nursing bleeding heart wounds from dad when they expressed their emotions to me...... and I totally understand! Advice is much needed. And...before you ask... I feel the abuse over 20 years has killed any real love that could have been there. The hatred took care of that a long time ago.

RUN from this other man! NOW! No matter how much he has helped you stay in your M. My H fed me the same garbage -- Sophia helps me to understand how to deal with you. If there is an iota of control, it will come out if there is any hint of an affair.

My H BROKE MY ARM because I was threatening to call this woman whom he said was calling him and it would be rude of him to hang up. He was in fact in an affair but the affair developed over a long, long period of time. The proposition occurred nearly a year after twice monthly lunch dates about which I knew.

You need to fix the marriage or get out, not turn to another person. You have no idea the pain that you inflict upon your spouse by developing an emotional relationship with another person. The broken arm, even though it required 3 surgeries and was inflicted 12 days after I had a hysterectomy, was NOTHING -- NOTHING -- compared to the pain of an affair.

PLEASE -- you seem to be coming here to tell why you might be justified in having an A. Every person who has an A feels justified. You know what? From my perspective, absolutely nothing justifies having an affair on your spouse.

You've been married to this man who has been abusive for 20 years. You have had children by him. The best gift you can give your children is to learn how to be considerate of each other. Yes, that takes your husband's cooperation.

Sit him down. Tell him you have become emotionally involved with someone else. Tell him that that fact alone makes you realize that there is something terribly wrong with your relationship. Break off all contact with the other man.

THEN GIVE YOUR HUSBAND A CHANCE...

It is what is best for you, your husband, and your children.

People can change. The third anniversary of my husband breaking my arm is this coming Friday. Things have been difficult, but he is working on meeting my needs. I see the potential. Sometimes, I am hopeful, and sometimes and not, but one thing I have recognized all along is that there is absolutely no substitute for having a lover who is the father of my children.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give him a chance...

Cherished

PS In answer to your question, there are two books -- The Verbally Abusive Relationship and The Emotionally Abusive Relationship -- that have been helpful to me. When my now 8 year old son was 2, he went running around my mother in law's house, with fingers pointed, saying "F... you." When our now 3 year old daughter was learning to talk, one of her first ten words was "Sh..." The Verbally Abusive Relationship deals with more subtle forms of verbal abuse. There's still a lot of that in our relationship, but we are learning to try to deal with it. It works both ways. One thing I have learned is that abusive relationships tend to be mutually abusive. You may not see it that way, but there is nothing more abusive in my mind than to have an affair. You will inflict far more pain on your H by continuing down the path you are on than by anything he has done, based on your description.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

YG:

Love and Hate are both ATTRACTIONS. One positive one negative. The opposite of both is APATHY-- total disconnection. The question you must ask yourself is this: In what manner and to what extent to you wish to be connected to your H? Do you wish to remain married? Then you and he must transform the relationship. The trick is, that you can only work on the you part. the him part is up to him.

Continue to work on your self. Be the spouse/partner/friend you want to have. You WILL have it! Your H my choose to change or you my choose to change husbands.

As for the affair of the heart--watch out A's tend to distort everything and everyone aroud it. We tend to deify our affair partners and demonize our spouses. In your case that seems very easy to do. Your heart--and head--must be clear if you are to choose wisely. Perhaps some space from both can help you choose the path you need. Remember, God'd always with you.

Good luck. You WILL be happy and whole again!!

Thanks guys. funny thing is, I told my 'friend' last week that I felt we should end our frienship for fear it was keeping me from giving my entire self to my marriage. He is in denial that our friendship is more than meets the eye. I will have to pray about sharing this friendship with my husband for fear of his retaliation on me.... his temper still scares me. Thanks for your help.

My H told me the same thing after the A was exposed. He couldn't tell me his true feelings for Sophia because he was afraid of how I would react. That left him open to her advances.

Please don't fool yourself. I remember one of the most anguished things my H told me after the A was exposed: "I kept on telling myself that I wasn't having an affair, and the only person I was fooling was myself."

You are having an affair right now. It is emotional. The best way to break it off is to tell your husband. If you are afraid of his temper, tell him when you are in a counselors office or with family but tell him soon. My H told me it was like a snowball rolling down a hill -- he just didn't stop it.

The damage to our relationship and to our children is so extensive as to be astonishing. Two weeks after 9/11/01, which is when they had their first kiss, he told me that his relationship with Sophia was like the Twin Towers falling, but he had faith and he was strong and he could handle it. Well, he couldn't. He needed to own up to what was happening, and he justified fear of me among other things... The downwards spiral was unbelievable. Please save yourself, your husband, and your children from this. Remember it is not just him and your children who get hurt.

Cherished

If you have something to hide..you already know that the friendship is inappropriate regardless of your marital circumstance. OMs resistance only demonstrates that his level of attachment is over the boundary.

Finish one relationship before you begin another. There is no other way to be clear eyed about the choices you are making.

Noodle

[edited to add..your title line is misleading..you ARE NOT here for help with your husband and marriage..suggest change it to "Can I have an affair now please?"]

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Is the friendship over the line?

http://shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.php

Here's my .02,

If you are in an abusive relationship then get out now! There is no excuse for his behaviour and no good reason for you to stay. A marriage cannot be made better if one partner is abusive.

That being said, having an abusive spouse does not justify getting involved with an OM. You don't need another relationship at this point. IMHO, you need an IC after so many years in an abusive relationship.

Plus, you are not as well as you claim if you are allowing your children to witness or be victims of this situation.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

A marriage cannot be made better if one partner is abusive.

I disagree. BUT the first problem that has to be solved is that of abuse. If there is abuse, it makes communication too dangerous. Add an affair to the mix, and you have a mess.

My H added an affair to the mix, but in this case YOU ARE.

An emotional relationship that has become deceptive needs to be brought to light, and it may well be the wake-up call he needs.

Cherished

I have to agree with the last post.
the other's advice here don't take into account that you are not dealing wtih someone rational who thinks of you as a person.
No offense to Cherished, but her situation is different because her kids are little, and she might beleive that having their dad, at all costs, is the bottom line. Maybe she can protect them from the truth of what he's done, and maybe she knows he won't have an affair or batter her again. {Cherished (if you are reading), your situation makes me really sad-- I can't beleive any of what he did! He had an affair and then broke your arm after you had been out from a hysterectomy-- what kind of man does all that? He doesn't deserve you. I hope he shows appreciation for your wee ones as much as you do.}
But, Sorry Young Gal, bottom line in YOUR situation is that your kids know they are loved (by you). You have no love for your H, and your kids won't hold it against you for leaving. They seem to be saying "anytime now, Ma!" Granted, they are children, and might not know the full ramifications of what that means, but they deserve happy healthy relatinoships one day themselves-- and staying with your H IS setting a bad example. They know what real love is, you've shown them that. But you aren't giving (enough of) it to yourself.
You are empowering yourself to go to school, that is fantastic. Also, great that you are standing up for yourself and no longer afraid. Only have one life, huh?
Right now, H gets your paychecks-- he must think you are on the planet to make him happy and supply him with what he needs. That is not what a "man" is supposed to do. Heck, that is what children do! Drain you of your resources and expect you to always be able to give more because it's all about them. We do this willingly for our kids (within limits, and we don't "give" them our paychecks, but we work everyday to supply them with what they need and give them a future). But our husbands--- well, be nice if he was on your side. I'm glad you are on your side tho! Keep it up.
I can really see your next move, when you are able: keep your money to yourself. Give to the M financially what needs to be given, and sock the rest of it away, or spend it how you want. Get your paychecks manually and open your own account without him on it. If he steals, report it. If he gets abusive, call the police.

I want to say too that I know a few people with amazing moms who have dads that are less than stellar, and as adults they love their moms, and even their dads, but they can't see why their moms stay with him, and I get the sense that they worry about her and would really like to see her do better.
These kids are angels, I think. Buying there mom flowers, and being kind in other ways because they know she deserves more good treatment. But when it comes down to it, they don't understand and it frustrates them, and I heard my guy friend refer to his mom as "A loving mother but an idiot when it comes to taking care of herself." I was shocked that he called her an idiot, and he said "Why? She doesn't care. She knows it." Even tho HE could see she needed treated better, he felt OK to call her an idiot like that because she hadn't demanded respect.
A very conflicted phenomenon.
His family might be unique-- parents were 60 or so once they finally did get a divorce, his folks were still involved-- his mom checked up on him and he'd kick her out, but everyone could tell he kind of liked it. Little by little, the beast that had been their dad started to change. He's still very standoffish, and not at all what I would call warm or loving, but he started to reach out to my friend in ways he hadn't before, not ever. it was very passive aggressive, but was easily translated into "I care about you" and started coming up a lot more frequently. I'll tell you a situation I witnessed myself that made me almost cry: we were broke college students it was hard learning to be independent and financially strapped for necessities. We couldn't afford stuff like comprehensive car insurance, and often puting $5 of gas felt like a lot. We grew up in N Idaho, where snow tires for my friend's old rear wheel drive Datsun were an imperative, and a big deal when considering travel home for winter break. He couldn't afford snow tires but had no other means to get back.
His mom missed him, and really wanted him to come homoe for Christmas, so he drove his dumb car on slick roads to be home for the holidays. Since his dad's place had a bigger dinging room and bedrooms (he was in the old family house, since she had moved out), the kids were staying with him, and I went over to pick my friend up to go to a friend's party because it had been snowing a lot and there was no way his car was going to make it out the driveway and county road (I myself drove an 1977 Toyota Corolla Wagon, but with goos snowtires). His dad was his normal grumpy self, but he asked me what I was doing (first time I can remember talking to him)and I said I was there to pick J up since his car wouldn't make it out the road. We visted wtih his mom and sisters for a while, and made our goodbyes. As we were leaving his dad approached and said "I want you to get new snow tires for your car. Here's a check made out to Les Schwab (tire store out west). Talk to Randy when you get there" My friend was astounded. It was very thoughful. He didn't know how to respond.
Small doses of good things, and my friend takes them-- they aren't perfect, but they are loving.
it doesn't make up for the past, but he has stopped referring to his mom as anything derogatory, and speaks of both of his parents highly.
Not saying your H is like my friends, but what I mean by that I guess is that abusers/controllers don't change unless the rug gets pulled out from under them. Change has to happen, they have to endure consequences. For my friend's dad, having his mom Divorce him and all the kids not seem to mind was enough-- I think having them there at Christmas reminded him what he was missing, and what he had missed all those years. intrinsically, at his core, he is a good, although misguided man. I don't know if your H is like that, but I do beleive mine is.

At any rate, We want to see the people we love do well, and be treated right. You wouldn't want your kids to stay in abusive relationships...
Anyway, that's my take on it. Keep up the schooling and open discussions with your kids. It says a lot about you that they feel they can give you such insights. Make them respect you and let them know without a doubt that you understand their concern and that you beleive you should be treated better too. If you have to stay with him because you do (some of us just don't have divorce in us, and can survive through years of mistreatment becasue of the standards we hold ourselves to), make it clear to them why you are staying knowing it's not what is best for you. Let them know it's not normal or the way M should be. When you see happy couples say outloud "If I had it to do over, I'd have a marriage like theirs."
They don't have you be like you and your H. Let them know there are alternatives and no one is stuck and that just because you and your H aren't happy is no excuse for them not to be and they have their own choices to make.
Abuse is NOT an "all in the family" thing. Not if you don't want it to be.
Peace, and Tons of HUGS.
LC

LC,

No one has advised her to remain in an abusive marriage. What she has been advised against is tossing an affair on top of everything else.

You and I both know that people in affairs will believe and accuse their spouse of some pretty incredible sh*t..whether it is true or not..an affair is not the answer.

Fix or end this marriage. End the affair for certain. This is Not particle physics.

Noodle

Under no circumstances do I advocate a person trying to recover a M with a person that is abusing them!

If the abuser gets the help he/she needs and proves through their actions they have changed then yes, recovery is a possibility.

That being said, being in an abusive situation does not give one the right to enter an A.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

"No offense to Cherished, but her situation is different because her kids are little, and she might beleive that having their dad, at all costs, is the bottom line. Maybe she can protect them from the truth of what he's done, and maybe she knows he won't have an affair or batter her again. {Cherished (if you are reading), your situation makes me really sad-- I can't beleive any of what he did! He had an affair and then broke your arm after you had been out from a hysterectomy-- what kind of man does all that? He doesn't deserve you. I hope he shows appreciation for your wee ones as much as you do.}"

I don't want to threadjack. The point of my story is that marriages can survive abuse. I do not believe in staying married no matter what. My children know that Dad kissed Sophia on the lips and Dad broke Mom's arm. They also know that Dad is very sorry and Dad goes to a "How to have a good discussion" class every Wednesday night.

My story is particularly horrible because my hysterectomy was about 25% a hysterectomy. I was in the hospital 5 days. I had child birth related injuries that required repair to bladder, rectum and small intestine as well as a hysterectomy. I had a catheter bag clipped to the side of the bed when he punched me. The ulna was broken in seven pieces. I went through three surgeries and was in a cast or splint from December 17, 2001 to April 3, 2002.

People can change. Telling your H, under SAFE conditions, that you feel abused and that you have turned to someone else but now you will end contact and want MC and IC for each of you is more likely to result in a successful and happy outcome than continuing a relationship with someone who is willing to help you betray your marriage vows, NO MATTER HOW WONDERFUL THEY SEEM.

There is NO substitute for having the father of your children be your lover.

That said, I have updated my tag line to show that we are now following the MB program, months and months after getting into it. What happened was I woke up and realized that this is my life, too, and that I am unwilling to continue a marriage of neglect, even if there is no abuse and even if there is no infidelity. Tom is working on meeting my needs, and I am working on meeting his. It is possible. The past does fade, but the present needs to be good. That is the issue.

Cherished

Sorry Youth Gal,
Although I don't know if you should stay with your H or not, you have to uphold your own standards because in the end you have to live with your choices. Can you feel you can move on with another R when you are still married? Do you think A's create more problems or do more good? Do you think most people who enter into A's are healthy? One realtinoship at a time is enough to handle.
You have to take care of yourself. The EA might feel good, but it isn't actually taking care of yourself. It's like eating Ice cream when a person is overweight or diabetic-- comforting, but doesn't help, or has strong adverse effects.
I totally agree with Cherish-- tell him about the EA, in a safe place when the kids aren't around. Tell him, like she said, that you feel abused. Use "I" statements- talk about your needs, your feelings. He'll fill in the rest.

Abusers are sometimes good men who need a clue. They need us to be strong in ourselves to see the change in them. They need us to be assertive, and encourage help. Sometimes getting our own help is a good role model. Change IS hard, but possible. He has to need to do it. And so do you.
LC

I have notified my friend of the end of our friendship. I would love for my marriage to work out.... but one can' do all the work! And how do you get past the hatred you've built up for a man that called you names, put you down, stole your self esteem, took away your friends, etc.? I will hand it to him, he has been a better man since I began standing up to him. He just can't give up his controlling spirit. We went to MC for six months. When the C began to talk about H and his family, he stopped the counseling. He has some major issues he doesn't want to deal with. I'm at the end of my rope. My kids are too. I don't like divorce. But am I wrong for contemplating it? I'm almost 40, and don't want to live the next 20-40 years of my life like the first.
Thank for your advice guys.

Try VerbalAbuse.com same format as this.Relates to people in the same situation.Running two relationships at the same time is dynamite.Fix it or finish it and then move on.

YES!!!!!!! Youth gal you need to goooooooooo!!!!
Please, leave him. Your children will benefit from the separation. In staying, you are causing them so much grief and worry. Do you not think your children spend hours wondering about you? Worrying about you? Hating their Dad? You need to end this. And - DON'T TELL HIM ABOUT THE EMOTIONAL/MENTAL AFFAIR. Have you not listened to the news?????? The kind of man you married is the type of man we hear about in the news...."Father of 3 kills family and then himself". The advice you are getting here is extremely irresponsible. You live with an abusive man....one who is also insecure and can't stand up to anyone...including his "mommy"? How do I know? Because he is classic. He fits the stereotype. A man who is week and has no courage to stand up for himself so he picks on those smaller than himself. Don't tell him sweetheart, you will not get a sympathetic ear, not will you get a man who will reflect on the last 20 years and what went wrong, or how he could have done better. Instead, you will face the wrath of his anger, you will have humiliated him and he will take out his anger on you, and worse, his children. Trust me, please. Just go and say nothing. Infact, send him away to visit his mommy or daddy or whoever, move all his stuff to storage, notify the police of your concern, prepare your divorce papers and serve him while he is away. Change all your locks and let your children know to be on gueard. He deserves to be treated this way. He is a monster. Also, one more thing. I love God. I believe in miracles.I respect the sanctity of marriage. I too stayed in an emotionally destructive marriage, so I understand. But sometimes, there are marriages that do not glorify God. They make him sad. They are not of God. You need to move one. You have already moved on mentally and physically, now move on physically.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!
AND YOU WILL FIND HAPPINESS WITH YOUR PRINCE CHARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

opps....meant to say...

"...you have already moved on mentally and emotionally, now, physically move out!!!!

Hi,

Verbal abuse should never be tolerated. It foams out of the mouths of many who either choose not to control it or can't control it. A few don't even know they do it, for they have been doing it or receiving it for sooo long.

Any which way you slice it, it is a bad thing.

You do have options:

1. Get back with your MC
2. MB does phone counseling. Steve Harley w/b a good one.

3. Read the book His Needs/Her Needs. Very good book about learning how to communication to the other gender.

4. Call your local women's abuse hotline. They may have support groups or counselors you can meet with.

5. Don't delay on the help. The longer you do, the harder it will become to stop this cycle.

take care,
L.

The first step in a man overcoming abusive behavior is for him to recognize that he is being abusive. My H started to recognize it when he broke my arm; I didn't. He went to anger management and still goes, three years later.

You can help here, I think. You can let him know that you consider his treatment of you to be abusive. You can say that you want counseling. You can point out how you feel when he says things. It's a long, hard road to recovery, and I think we are only at the beginning of it three years later.

Last night, my H told me I was a bully. This morning, he apologized. He said he went on an anger jag yesterday.

Cherished