Well, I don't really know what I want, but I know it bothers me that my STBX is always trying to hurt me. It is not what she does necessarily that hurts, but the fact her intent is to hurt. Even though she acts otherwise.

My STBX calls me and emails me about how she wishes it would have worked out, etc. blah blah blah. She leaves a phone message for me on Friday night telling me she only wants me, not Cowboy Steve, or her other BF. She just doesn't want to fight anymore...(neither do I)

She always says what she wants, never what she will do to try to get what she wants. For the past seven months I've tried, whenever I've went out on the limb for her or reached out to her she has cut the branch off or bit my hand. Now is no different. She comes over and asks for a hug, I won't give it to her. It is not OK between us, I can't act that way. She is still contacting OM and doing her internet "dating" with him.

She tried to keep the kids from seeing me at Christmas at the very same time she leaves the Friday phone message. Is that the actions of a WW that is would like to work on a marriage? I think she may not be stable.

I know that it is not good to get into other relationships while you are going through this process, but I find myself strongly drawn this way ... and well ... duh! I haven't had a need of mine met for almost a year. Just barraged with love busters and nastyness. The comfort feels good. Planning a very happy New Years ... out with the old - in with the new.

I had a court date this morning. I had to go to court so that I could see my kids during Christmas break. My STBX even told me before the hearing that it doesn't matter. She knew the judge would let me see the kids, but she made me go to court anyway, just to spend the money and spend the time.

Now I'm just blabbering, I don't know what I really wanted to ask.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

TJ, glad to see you've posted, but so sorry to hear that you are still going through all this crap.

I do not think you are wrong in questioning her stability and I wish you had something to prove what she said about making you go to court. Something is just not right with her. She finally has what she wants and she needs to see you lower than she is. We know it won't happen and don't let it...but I just don't understand that need.

Wish I had some good advice...but this is just ridiculous. ((hugs))

brrrrrrrrrrrr....cold out today, huh?

I agree with maddyk, try to get some documentation going. Communicate through emails only if you have to, have a third party intermediary...

Do what you need to do to protect any feelings you may have left for the mother of your children. You can't change her, but you can change how you "do business".

Maddy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Nice to hear from you again. I've been forgetfull to, by the way.

MGM, I'm not really interested in documentation. I have proof of her affair. She readily admits it, admits it is still going on too. I do prefer emails because then I can choose what to respond too, and they seem less hurtful. When I say hurtful, I also mean that I am less likely to be hurtful in an email. And you are right, I have changed alot about myself, and I feel really good about that. All the self-esteem that my STBX destroyed in me is back again, well most of it. Of course, that goes along with having a person around that gives you comfort and support and makes you feel like you are a person of value.

TJ, I think we both mean documentation in regards to the stuff your wife/says now, like forcing you to go to court, even though she knew it was frivolous.

*hugs*

I meant documentation as to what is occuring now re: your kids and her current behaviour.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: spinning the drain ]</small>

I'd say back to her..

I realize that taking me to court and having to involve the legal system...is your attempt to hurt me...
but the truth is that in the end it reflects soley back on to you....


when she asks for a hug..

sure whenever the woman I married arrives again..i will be sure to give HER a hug....

tom...are you two just progressing with the divorce...
no plan b per say...

cause if you are done and moving on....
seek pity for how pathetic she looks and sounds...
and call her on it without judgement..but by laying back on her lap...

ark

Tom - Asking for a hug is kind of a new thing for her, isn't it? She still seems to be wanting to engage you a lot for someone who wanted to be on her own.

Hi TJ,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> All the self-esteem that my STBX destroyed in me is back again, well most of it. Of course, that goes along with having a person around that gives you comfort and support and makes you feel like you are a person of value. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you understand that we need to not rely on others for our value but from within ourselves and our relationship with our Lord. Make sure you don't depend on anyone else because then you may be setting yourself up to be let down...again.

Your wife does sound very unstable. She probably needs IC and possibly meds. I doubt she is the best person to have the kids. The suggestion about documentation at this point is mainly about proving her fitness (or rather, her lack thereof) to be primary caretaker of your kids.

Did you ever give her a plan B letter stating what she would need to do to prove to you she was serious about wanting to keep your marriage together? It is just plain odd that she says things to you to that effect but then defies everything by all of her actions that oppose that outcome. It is odd that she can't see the dichotomy.

She either has tons of pride or she is mentally dysfunctional. When you thought your marriage was okay did she display any of this sort of behavior?
She didn't just get this way when she started to stray, did she?

Have you ever given her a list of things that would need to be done in order for you to even consider reconciliation at any time? It sounds like you really wouldn't choose to reconcile at this point anyway partly because you have moved on to the point of entering into other 'relationships' before you are even D'd...not a good idea although I completely understand why you would do so. It is all easier said than done. It does feel good to receive comfort and support. I hope you've been clear in trying to keep it just 'friends' for now.

Hi TJ,

Good to hear from you and despite the mixed signals coming your way, you sound ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> {{{MB hugz 2 U}}}}

As for the double talk and back steps coming from your W, it is nothing new. What I suspect is that she is testing the waters without making a commitment. If there is an ounce of truth to my suspicion, then you have to decide whether you will allow her to string you along while she checks out her 'options'.

I allowed myself to be an 'option' for a while but when that game was played over and over again, I finally decided to pull myself out of that game and NOT be an 'option'. Told the WS, I was no longer a choice so it DIDN'T matter what he did as long as I WASN'T one of the 'options'.

I pulled back, went into plan B and kicked him out. When he saw I wasn't an option he got scared. Well, that's how it went for us.

Either way, it helped me to pull out of the chaotic web the A was spinning.

Do what you need to do when you are ready.

take care,
L.

Hey Thanks for the replies. I really haven't been here much lately, and didn't realize how much support it gave me, and also makes me keep my eyes open.

Ark^^, those are good, and true about how I feel. I did send a Plan B letter. A bit late I suppose, but I thought we were divorcing and no need for a plan B.

She has been cryptic in everything she says and does. She says things like;
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd throw away the cell phone and computer if I would guarantee her a "happily ever after" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I could erase everyhing and start all over again with you I'd do it. But I know that will never happen. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Putting everything aside is there any chance for us? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She doesn't committ to anything. I am really not in any mood to accomodate that either. She seems like she is cake eating to me. Fishing. I have held out my hand to her and been bitten. But she does not hold out her hand to me, only sees if I'll hold it out to her again.

In addition, she is still doing it with the OM. Of course they are just dear old friends to her, a friend who flys into town and shacks up with my STBX, and has cyber and phone sex with her.

Trix,

My Plan B letter was late. I did give some conditions. Mostly that she stops her contact with her lover. Of course I would want counciling, and some other things. But I want her to offer something too. Something she hasn't done. And Yes Trix, she has been this way for awhile.

She is accustomed to saying "I want" but never saying "I'll do this." She "wants" things and I've been the one to try to figure out how to do them. I'm too tired for that anymore.

I am being careful, I think, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> as far as being comforted goes.

All those things would then need to be part of your conditions for reconciliation. I think it is really up to her at this point...she is the one that has screwed up royally..yes you admitted to your mistakes from the past...you've moved forward a better man, I think. Now it is up to her...can you lay that out for her...or is it no longer worth it for you?

Trix, I feel like I layed it out for 7 months. I don't have to explain to you, but it was the most grueling, brutal time in my life, ... continuous without a break. Maybe I should have gone to Plan B much earlier before all that damage was done to my lovebank.

Anyway, I feel like if I layed it out there again ... and made it any clearer, that I would just be telling her what to say to me . I want her honest truth, I don't want her to tell me something she thinks I want to hear. She has a history of being dishonest, and saying things because she thinks that is what I want to hear. She will have to tell me what she'll do and tell me the honest truth.

LOL did I just say "honest truth". What other kind is there? Well I take that back. There is the WS truth ... FOG.

So Trix, I guess it is no. It is not worth it to me to lay anything out there.

I took the kids to church every Sunday, even when I didn't have visitation. She agreed that I could continue doing that. Then in court today she says she doesn't want the kids to go to church anymore on her custody days. I guess they need to sleep in or something, because she never gets up.

And we pay, or rather, I pay to send them to a private christian school.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

TJ,

I know it just ain't like you to miss my post (esp when you put my name in the title of your thread)...... so just wondering what you take was on that post. If it isn't worth discussing.... no biggie, just checking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

I understand having someone who is good at saying what they think they want you to hear...as well as lying with ease. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I believe you have done the best you can. It is truly her loss...and the kid's loss of a mom displaying any sort of admirable character example for them. I must say she sounds like a piece of work...

I know you will be there for them and be the right example...they'll really need that during their teen years. Teen years can be difficult without all they've been through.

I hope you and the kids have a nice Christmas and are able to spend some of the holidays together..

Orchid, sorry. Almost even missed your second post. I've gotten into the bad habit of clicking on the name of the last poster instead of the thread name. Totally missed your first post, then your second was at the end of the first page, almost missed that one too. Great Googly Woogly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, I am glad that was your perception. Well glad might not be the right word, but you have a knack for seeing through these things and that was how I felt too.

I felt STBX was counting on me to be her "steady eddy" or her "safety net" She told me early in this ordeal, shortly after D-Day that we never should have been married and that she never loved me that way. She married me because she was looking for someone to "rescue her" from her life. I was the stable guy, the always there guy. We dated more than 7 years. She took off with four different guys during that time, behind my back, with my best friend even, and a married man too. As I got older I cracked her behaivor up to immaturity, ... you know young and reckless. I guess I was fooling myself.

I always worried that she was only with me until someone else came along. It sure seemed that way. And she finally said it, was it FOG. I dunno.

I don't want to be an option, or someone's steady eddy. I want a partner, I want someone I can count on too. Not just someone I have to provide for, or perform for. I want someone who believes in the things I believe in.

I think there are people like that out there. I don't believe in soulmates, I believe there are 100 people out there I could fall in love with, be a partner to. Heck a 1000. But I made a vow to my STBX, to forsake them. Even Jesus says that adultury is the only basis for divorce.

OK I'm rambling again. Have to get back to wrapping presents.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

TJ,

Glad U R thinking straight. You deserve and need partner for life and not be weighed down with someone who is using you and your family.

Unfortunately, I have a couple of SILs who think they need t/b drama queens and I have finally convinced the rest of the family (there are 8 others - YIKES) that they need to NOT let these drama queens rule their lives. Seems like when the spotlight is off of them, they go and raise a ruckus. I just hate that.

Anyway, seems like it is finally getting through. The last drama episode shows my H's SIL talking to the drama queen's new MIL and giving her the 'real facts'. That is bound to cause a few waves down south. LOL!!!

The point is that eventually we rid ourselves of these drama queens or they change into real caring human beings. No more 'its all about me' crap spewing from their mouth. If they can't think about others, then others are not obligated to think about them.

Keep on moving forward and I am glad you are still working with a clear mind and a calm heart.

All the best,
L.