There I was sitting on my bed, talking on the phone to my SIL when WH walks in the door. I asked him if he came home to pick up more of his stuff or to talk. He said he came to talk but then didn't say one word. Our conversation was classic fog talk. Not much based in reality.

Okay, so it's up to me once again to start things off. Working really hard on controlling that angry, pizzed off voice. Thank you to everybody who posted on my last thread, HurtingCarol is really hurting, because your advice was invaluable. The fog is really a pea souper. Extremely dense. In addition, We've both been sick with some respiratory thing.

WH starts out by saying he's thinking about breaking it off with OW. (Very small voice here.) I ask when he might make that decision. He says he's struggling. I said, (and thank you to those lovely MBs who put these words in my mouth) I miss my husband, the kids miss their father but we don't want OW's boyfriend around. He asked me to help him brainstorm it. Of course! I say I need him to send a letter of NC, to really mean it and be accountable for his hours, location, activities, cell phone log, and mileage...Oh the fog-bound, he says I need to prove myself to him. I let out only one short, bitter laugh. All I could say was WHO did the betraying? We want you here but only if you come with a whole heart.

I told him that I didn't like the person I became when reacting to his actions. That I didn't like snooping, going through briefcases and all. If this information was made freely available, then I wouldn't have to snoop. I wouldn't feel as angry. That I don't enjoy feelings angry. That access to everything was up to him. He was pretty fogged up about why I'd actually want those things.

He thinks it's a betrayal that I exposed him to his parents. Could not see what possible good that would do. Said it was between the two of us...pause then added, the kids. OW, I chipped in? I asked if he was ashamed? He thinks they will never forgive him. I told him that they forgave me for my long ago A. You just have to prove yourself. A few gears turned at that one.

Then he asked if I thought he should continue looking for an apartment. You will be proud of me. I said, we would love to have you in our house. I would like my husband, the kids: their father. But, if you haven't broken contact with OW, then don't come home. You can't have both.

I also suggested he make an immediate appt with his IC. Emergency appt! That breaking things up with OW, regaining my trust, and a decision on renting an apartment would best be discussed with a counselor. If he's confused, I'm not sure how much I can help.

He's not thinking of anything past today. Personally, I need to know about Christmas! i fear the the false holiday recovery. Especially since our oldest comes home from college tonight.

Okay omniscent MBs. How'd I do and what can I expect.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtingCarol:
<strong>He's not thinking of anything past today. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is good. If WS & OP has plan ahead w/o fantasy, your M will be doomed. You have to stick to your boundry, WS right now is waffeling. Forget about recovery ... A is not ended yet and withdrawal will follow. Does your son know about his A ? ... talk to him and let him know what is going on.

Yup, all my kids know. My oldest is much like me and has been a big support. I didn't want to tell him but he made the mistake soon after Dday of calling and honestly asking how I was. When I broke into tears, he wanted the whole story. He told me I could call him day or night. He is a great kid.

I'm thinking one day at a time too. There's lots of little baby steps to make. Once OW is in NC, we can think about where our marriage is going.

HC, I think you did an awesome job. I think I am going to try to approach my future conversation like you did.
I agree the baby steps idea is crucial. And don't be disappointed if you have to take a few backwards as this things progress. But overall I think this is good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtingCarol:
<strong>I'm thinking one day at a time too. There's lots of little baby steps to make. Once OW is in NC, we can think about where our marriage is going. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should not thinking one day at a time. You should have plans depend on the situation, but you have to know what you want and stick to your boundry. It is similiar to tough love ... I love you but I don't tolerate A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Be Patient, be Presistent and give it Time.

-rh-

-rh-

HC,
okay...seeing a little light here.
The comment about " thinking about ending it with OW " was a big one.

I heard it myself once. I'll let you in on something I said to H when he made this statement....
" I realize you don't want to hurt anyone more than you already have...that's understandable...but how fair is it really to keep everyone waiting around for your decision ? .. someone is getting hurt no matter how you slice it... could be 2 days...2 months... 2 years...isn't going to hurt any less...HOWEVER... every second you chose to NOT make a decision, hurts me as your wife. If you were going to be with her...well you would have left a long time ago...so how fair is it to her to leave her waiting...let her move on to someone that's available".

Give it a go next time.

It's some reverse babble...but did some real work for me.

Remember baby steps...EXPECT BACKSLIDES...I promise you in a day or two he will DENY ever saying he even THOUGHT about breaking up with her. He'll go back to no future for the two of you...love is gone...too much damage...blah blah blah fogese.

This your best Plan A attack. Calm, cool, consistent.

Good Job <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WH starts out by saying he's thinking about breaking it off with OW. (Very small voice here.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">REALLY GOOD !!! You know, smokers always begin by talking about quitting before they are ready to give up the habit. I've never met a quitter who did not talk about quitting first.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says he's struggling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent !!! A struggle is what you want. This means there is conflict in his heart. His conscience is not dead. ~happy dance~

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He asked me to help him brainstorm it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's seeing you as someone who may help him. Good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh the fog-bound, he says I need to prove myself to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FYI....What he means but does not know how to articulate is ---> "Will I be paying for this mistake for the rest of my natural life?"


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He thinks it's a betrayal that I exposed him to his parents.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's rich ! ~LOL~ But, good news, he's talking and is sharing his foggy version of the truth. He must feel some level ofsafety with you . GOOD !!!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then he asked if I thought he should continue looking for an apartment.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, looking toward you for help with decisions. Good !!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How'd I do and what can I expect. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOU did GREAT !!

Expect more of the same. Some "slippage" away from sanity ... and some small steps toward sanity.

Pep

My dear HC,

I am soooo proud of U!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My heart is jumping up and down (where is that happy icon???).

Now don't understimate the progress made today. You have set some very clear messages and it wasn't that hard, was it?

Also he has to respect you and notice how even though he 'tried' to babble, it fell upon deaf ears. You implemented your boundaries and it put up a shield against that fog babble.

This is GREAT!!!!

It is not the end and expect more resistance. In the future, you will be able to use his own statements back to him as a response when that fog babble creeps up.

You will get the hang of the rest of it. You are already on a good path. The point is NOT to fear fear itself. You are NOT the insane one here.

Allow yourself to keep the confidence of knowing you are the one who has the family's interest at heart. I appears your Ws is trying to do the same and that is a good sign but he hasn't vested into it as much as you have so he has some catching up to do.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Be confident but cautious. Know down days will come but you have this memory to help you bounce back.

Keep up the good work.

BTW, I like how you said you did not want OW's Bf in your home. I had to read that twice before it sunk in! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Very good retort. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All the best,
L.

Still strong today. On our way to the airport to pickup my son, WH called on my cell phone. Asked if we were on our way and said he was leaving work. (This was around 7:30 p.m. after at least a 12 hour day) Said he was going to the same place he'd been staying since he wasn't welcome at home.

Be proud: I said, You'd be welcome home with open arms if you made the right decision about OW. I'd love to have you home but it has to be the right way. Bye!

I feel very strong and confident with the boundary setting. Well, it was good yesterday. Let's see what the roller coaster brings today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtingCarol:
I said, You'd be welcome home with open arms if you made the right decision about OW. I'd love to have you home but it has to be the right way. Bye!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Voila' ... say what you mean, mean what you say ... and no LB.

Perfecto !!!

Pep

I think it's pretty much all been covered... you did good, sounds like he's coming around etc. so I will just make one other comment.

He said it is you that have to prove yourself.

What's wrong with that? Now keep in mind this is coming from someone that is 6 months into full recovery so things look different on this end but don't we all need to prove ourselves our whole marriage one way or the other?

I've been where you are and when my FWW said what your WH said I reacted as you did but on down the road it doesn't seem as ridiculous.

Just something to ponder.

Mr.E, I've thought about that. Somebody said I need to prove that I've not going wig out at everything and also give assurances that I'm not going to drag this A and it's garbage out everytime things don't go my way or we have a fight.

I'm really working on the anger thing.

HC,

Very realistic and highly impacting. Good for you. You realize that down days c/b around the corner and seem to be getting prepared for it. Just don't be too hard on yourself, ok?

I am sooooo proud of you girl!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

I'm not even sure that it is proving something as specific as not holding an A over the FWS's head although that very well could be part of the equation, but rather as Dr. Harley puts it, proving that we deserve to be loved.

How do you prove you deserve to be loved? By loving back a lot? By being nice and happy, happy all the time? By being the glue that holds the family together? By baking cookies and putting nice meals on the table?

I'd like to know more about this. It goes to a place I haven't been yet. Seriously....

***How do you prove you deserve to be loved? By loving back a lot? By being nice and happy, happy all the time? By being the glue that holds the family together? By baking cookies and putting nice meals on the table?***

In this case, I think "prove you deserve to be loved" actually means "Promise you will never, ever, ever question me about my lying and cheating. Promise you will stuff it down and act like it never happened so I don't have to feel guilty or be bothered with your feelings. If you don't do this, I will leave you."

JMHO.
Mulan

So, so true.