I opened a crack in the door 10 days ago...and she stepped through it after a very tearful, 2 hour phone call Sunday night (I previously posted my story). I finally asked her whether she wanted to put this on hold (mediation/divorce)...she tearingly responded with a yes, I do.

I firmly believe the A is over after I exposed it in May to the OM wife...but I was threw with the lying and BS and filed (with her) for D. She is a very stubborn woman but I did hear a few peeps and squeeks from her the last few months but I was not biting.

Anyway, I contacted my attorney Monday morning and cancelled our mediation date which was scheduled for tomorrow. Now, she had booked airfare to return for the mediation...and she does not have to come here but has chosen to come here to see me as she wants to talk...and, she is planning on extending her trip through the weekend for an extra $100 fee.

We spoke 3-4 times on Monday (she actually flirted with me a little) and she asked me this morning if I was going to pick her up at the airport (I am). She then suggested dinner at one of our favorite restaurants after talking about what bathing suit she was going to wear in our hot tub (our home is for sale).

I plan on trying to be cheerful and greet her at the airport with a hug and show my best side to her. I also want to have fun and just see how things go.

Last spring, she was not on board with MC which appears to me to be critical for our future success....but I do not want to talk about our R immediately, but hopefully she will bring it up and we naturally can go from there.

How to act? Just see how things develop? I have only seen her about 3 times in the past 6 months (last time-4 weeks ago-I left her in tears and just walked out the front door).

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions as always, you guys are great.

I feel like no matter what happens, I will be fine but realize we may have another chance and I do not want to blow it.

I am still prepared to move forward with the D unless she accepts at a minimum seeing a MC with me....I do hear her sorrow and realize I played a role in the downfall of our marriage.

Nature

Nature,

First, I hope things go well for you.

I guess my concern in this situation is that whatever develops wouldn't be "real." Or at least...I wouldn't know if it WAS real or not.

It sounds like your WW has plans for a romantic evening. Are you ready to deal with the possibility of being swept up in the emotion of the moment?

Nature,


No real recomendations here of any substance. From readng your past posts, I know you are a much more romantic person than you would let on. I say trust your instincts and if it apears to be too good to be true, protect yourself in the clinches. Remember there is always a neutral corner in every ring that you can find sanctuary. Think this through as to where and what you can do IF you get in that situation. I guess what I am saying is be prepared for any scenario so that you are not " winging " it and end up hurting yourself more that what SHE has done to you.

Best of Luck.

BTW, I can't help but feel a bit of jealousy. I have been in a damn good Plan B for 8 months and it looks to be a lost cause. Oh well, perhaps the Lord is watching over me a lot more than I give him credit for.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
Oh well, perhaps the Lord is watching over me a lot more than I give him credit for.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I imagine this is very true.

Pep

Pep,

Thanks a lot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It just seems I am so emotional again just when I thought, like Nature, that I knew and understood my wants, needs and dreams.

Andrew--who knows, this could be a big game on her part to try and soften me up. The financial consequences of a D are huge for her. Yet, I doubt this is the case. I really do not think she would travel back here and take the time to see me in a possibly romantic fashion if she did not have feelings for me still. In the past R discussions, I always heard it never was about the OM but the issues between us (we didn't talk enough, my family did not respect her, I didn't stand up for her, etc.). I think I can deal with anything as I am much stronger and confident in myself. A true test will be when I question MC, this seems like a deal breaker to me if she is not on board....and it could get complicated real quick, I live 2000 miles away and would have to leave my job to move back east with her.

Cy-thanks as always. Yes, I am much more romantic. I was almost thinking of bringing a single rose to the airport but I don't think I will do this...I would hope to see something like that from her, however. I am actually taking off work for half a day to be with her...and I guess I am following her lead with her suggestions. And, please, please, NO reason for jealousy, my friend, you are a good man and no one knows what chips lay ahead for each of us. Continue to focus on you and disregard her. You are the better person. I am still thinking this way, it's still all about me, but maybe she is now interested, who knows?

Hi Nature,

Well,I guess your WW is with you today? so I hope you can slip in a quick update when you get a chance.All I wanted to say was PLEASE take it real s-l-o-w.When you start talking hot tubs and dinner,etc,I just think that is way too fast.Nothing has been established except that your WW is testing you to see where you're at.She hasn't agreed to anything yet except that she wanted you to stop the D proceedings,but what is she willing to do to support the marriage now? Do make sure you talk about MC and not get caught up in the emotion that will definitely be there.Remember,that path can lead you quickly down into more pain and suffering if you get your hopes up.

Like any WS,she has to agree to certain conditions for you to consider working on the marriage again.After all the pain,lies and betrayal.Just don't blindly accept her back OK? I know you won't,just a reminder.Let us know how it goes.Your MB family is just looking out for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

O

Thanks OG.

Yes, I am confused at the moment. After all, I waited so long, I only really wanted to save my marriage. Of course, it takes two to do this.

I gather from speaking with her, and I echo a few of Ark's comments, she is still trying to believe in me again, the man she once knew who she could talk to about anything and she could count on. She has always exclaimed it has never been about the OM.

Brief history for those still reading this soap opera:

An incident occurred 5 years ago where a co-worker GF was exposed by another co-worker male and my WS was sitting near her GF when it happened. My WS was never exposed to or hit on, but the person who did it was locally based at the time and my WS had to work once or twice a week with this person. Anyway, a big HR issue unfolded, and this is all we spoke about for 3-4 months...I mean, like, nothing else to the point it really started to bother me, she was playing the drama queen role all the time. I, of course, stood by her side, listened, offered comments, etc....until her boss finally said to me I think she is making more out of this than there is...I finally spoke up to her and tried to tell her I'd like to talk about something else, this is all we talk about, etc. which apparently made her completely upset at me, depressed at times, she told me she could not go to work somedays, etc. and she felt I no longer cared for her....this supposedly began the decline of her emotional connection to me.

Sorry to ramble, you are correct, I need to take this slow...yet I want her to have fun with me again, it's hard at this stage of the game.

Thanks, I will check in here from time to time.

Hi again,

?? Not sure what the story was about actually.Some guy flashes your WW and the GF and then she can't let it go after 4 months? Was she that "traumatized" is that it?

You know,one thing I guess I may need to post a new thread about is this "fear" that WS's have toward us BS's .I don't understand it.You would think we were all some kind of muggers or rapists by the way they think of us and not "feeling safe" around us.? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I mean,aren't we the ones they married and all of a sudden,some new homewrecking OP that they know only days or weeks is the one to feel safe with? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Also,maybe because they weren't entirely open and honest with us and instead became sneaky,dishonest and selfish we are to be feared?! They can't face us.

I think Nature that your WW needs to believe in HERSELF again,not the wayward person/alien she became who is looking for safety somewhere,hiding from the public.None of us is perfect,certainly not an OP by ANY means so why is it that your WW needs to believe/find you,the man she HAD right there the whole time?

It's a big circle.WS is unhappy or disappointed in relationship for reason X ;denies or refuses to talk about it to spouse;goes off and finds OP/stranger to make it all better;finds out OP isn't so great afterall and problems are still there;turns around and starts looking back toward BS for answers or validation;back to square one.This is of course if you are lucky enough to have a WS come back(did I really say that?).Many go off and continue in the adultery,or hop from one person to the next even after the original OP is long gone.

Just don't lose sight that your WW is the one who better make some damn good changes in herself first.No parties,initmate dinners,hot tubs,fancy gifts,etc.Not yet.This is serious.We are talking about a huge betrayal that she did to you.She will need to prove it to you that she is serious about the marriage,if and when that comes up.You of course will have your work cut out for you too but it's already a given that YOU at least already attemtped.More than she can say.She cannot afford to fall back on old habits and fears and you need to make her work for the *privilege of coming back to what she tossed away and the chance that you may give her by opening up your heart again.

Ok.That's it for now.

O

OG--yes, at the time (5 years ago) she was very concerned that this co-worker was going to come on to her, she obviously was not interested but was obviously concerned for her safety. So was I.
So, after hearing this huge HR issue develop and talking daily about it for several months I finally told I would like to talk about something else, call me if you need to, let me know if there is an emergency situation, etc. She took this the complete opposite, I apparently did not care about her or her safety. Not that she ever told me this, but resentment was beginning to build on her part.

Her company ended up letting the guy go-and he had a past history of sexual predation. But, this was not known at the time. The guy never did anything to her. But, looking back, I guess my approach to try and change the subject did not work.

I will post later today about yesterday's events....things are moving too quickly...she seems very interested in me again....but I do not believe she has the strength to explore MC with me....no heavy R or M talks yesterday, just fun stuff, she is definitely trying to reconnect with me.

"She is definitely trying to reconnect with me"

The big question is WHY? Are you the fall back guy? Is she scared of being alone? Is she willing to explore what went wrong within her and the marriage? Is she willing to go to MC? Or,is she just looking to have some fun and ignore the most obvious issue facing you both at this moment?

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Regardless of what her "true intentions" are in returning, you need to set & both agree to some very firm rules BEFORE she moves back in.

For example, counseling x times per week/month, no contact with om, she is to immediately let you know if she even hears his name in a conversation, etc.

Do it now before she moves back in and it will be easier fo ryou both to live up to.
Leave it to "discuss" later and there will be no need to do it because she will have already moved back in.

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

but I do not believe she has the strength to explore MC with me....no heavy R or M talks yesterday, just fun stuff, she is definitely trying to reconnect with me.
That's okay.
And you may not need to get serious right away.
But you should absolutely set a time frame of when you WILL get serious (and what that means) and have that date firmly established.

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Thanks for the replies, quick update as she left this morning to go back east.

Good question, OG, why...I think I know the answer, I believe she is very lonely and I am probably just filling that need right now.

Things started slowly after I picked her up at the airport Thursday. She did pay an extra $100 to change her return flight from Friday to Saturday, I took her to lunch, and slowly warmed up to each other as we had not spent any real personal time since May prior to filing.

We came home after lunch, took a nap together, made dinner, just laughed and played with me stealing a quick kiss here or there. I gave her a few hugs and tried to show my chivalry with opening doors and letting her talk quite a bit, she really did open up to me about her life, gave me her new address, local information about where she is living, lots of personal stuff about what she has been doing, family information, etc. She spoke quite a bit and opened up to me.

We drank a few bottles of wine, slept together - just snuggles, I went to work yesterday, she came and met me for lunch and walked in the park holding hands....and again, made dinner, drank wine, danced in the kitchen, kissed, snuggled, etc. I rubbed her back a little this morning, we held each other very close in bed, I did a few sweet talks, made her bath, washed her back while she was in the tub.

And, when I offered to wash her back, she made a comment about that is all I had in mind, right? I said, yes, I just offered to wash your back, she said because I am not ready for THAT yet (sex), I then gave her a deep hug and held her tight.

She also told me more than once about how she thinks she is fat and ugly (she currently wears size 6 pants) and pinches her little pot belly and shows me wear she feels her thighs are fat. I tell her what are you nuts, you are a beautiful woman, I kiss her eyes and cheeks and try to boost her up a bit. She was always very insecure about her looks, until the A started way back when.

I noticed she was definitely kissing me back, but it was me that had to initiate. Not surprising as this was only the 3rd time seeing each other in 7 months...and we just put this D on hold 5 days ago. Again, I think she is trying to believe in me again.

Anyway, I know I cannot control her or her actions. And, I was bothered that I went online today and noticed that she checked her match.com and yahoo personal links (I know she joined these services about 5 weeks ago, we never discussed this but she left her history intact at the time). Also, I had been reviewing themarriagebed.com earlier in the week and added it to my favorites. She also clicked on it yesterday morning and was apparently reading the site which is listed as "Intimacy and Sex for Married Christians".

So, it's pretty obvious she is not serious, at least yet, and maybe never.

It hurts a little that I seem again to be the one throwing compliments her way and trying to reach out to her.

Maybe I am overanalyzing things, let me know what you think, thanks.

Nature,

My feelings are that you gave her WAY more than she deserved. This is absolutely NOT a criticism of you. I probably would have been tempted to do the same!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she said because I am not ready for THAT yet (sex), </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish that statement had come from you! She VERY cleverly put you and your needs down in what I see as a blatant episode of both control and punishment(In her mind YOU are/were to blame for HER A)

I hope not to discourage you but this sounds like the same person you left, IMHO.

*sigh* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Nature.

What can I say.Well,if it matters at all,I too think you gave too much physical time to your WW when nothing has been established yet as to her MOTIVES.Why is she checking match.com/yahoo while with YOU if she is supposedly home to stop the D and spend time with you?!? Don't you see? I'm sorry, you gave yourself away to her and she didn't deserve it right now,as CY said.The kind of soothing and caring treatment you gave to her is what should have taken place AFTER there is a proposal to work on the marriage.

Did you end up talking about MC by the way? Sounds like no and you just went with stroking her ego.Which is great, if you are happily married couple invested in the marriage.

Like in my previous e-mails I was hoping you wouldn't do such personal things with her at this point in time.I just don't want you to get hurt again.I don't want anyone here to be hurt repeatedly.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out now that she knows she has you there,waiting for some kind of answer to this past weekend.Do you both go quietly into the night? Do you make plans to see each other every so often? Does she continue to look for OM on websites? Or does she commit to a MC and reconciliation? Why? is still hanging there in the air.

I don't think that your WW should be trying to believe in YOU again,she needs to start believing in herself and how she treats people and what she wants in life.Neither of you can just come together without a plan,not if you are going to recover the marriage since the D is on hold.She has to realize this Nature.She can't just come back and not be held accountable for what has happened.She has to face it and deal with it.

The alternative is to side step the big elephant in the room and how long do you do that? Until maybe she feels comfortable? When will that occur? How long do you ignore the habits and behavior pre-A that lead you to where you are now? No.If you are going to open yourself up again to being with this woman,you have to have a least a modicum of committment from her in that direction.

Let us know when you hear from her again and what happens.

O

Thanks for the thoughts.

I wanted her to feel comfortable with me again and just let things go and see what develops. I wanted her to have fun with me and try and see the guy that she once knew is still there.

Maybe I gave too much? Possibly. I think you both are correct in the sense that if she was serious then why check these other websites, albeit briefly while she was here?

I almost want to call and lay the cards on the table today. I mean, if she wants the M, what is the plan?

I also wanted to add I did not want to push her away or LB while she was here.

Ark's posts always made me think that the BS needs to try and entice the WS back by making them feel safe and secure, no LB, etc. Make the environment open and loving.

I wasn't able to make her feel safe with me last year and was not able to entice her to re-establish the bond we once held since I was very insecure and needy at the time, of course, that was due to her behavior.

So I guess I wanted to try and make a few deposits to her love bank while she was with me. Remember, we haven't spent any time together in 7 months, let alone quality, personal time, chatting about life and such. And, if we spoke, it always about the D, financial paperwork, etc. No real personal stuff at all.

I know she is trying to believe in me again....and I know it's crazy to think why does she need this after what she did? Bizarre, I know, I must have the patience of a saint to deal with this insecure woman right now. My closest friends will think I am crazy to be even talking with her again and trying to make this work.

I am still in the driver seat but in first gear. I am planning on shifting soon, however, to move this one way or the other.

So, I just gave a quick call to her, we spoke lightly about her trip back, what we did last night, the agenda for today, etc. I asked her when I arrive in NYC early Tuesday if she could meet for lunch...she said if she was working in the city she would but she doesn't think she will so probably not. She leaves Wednesday for a 10-day trip to see her parents in Florida.

Thanks againk for those still reading this opera.

you need to set & both agree to some very firm rules BEFORE she moves back in.
What do you think of this?

Hi again,

You know,no one is suggesting you be mean to WW in any way or LB.Of course an open and honest discussion and appreciation of what she is telling you is sufficient I would think.Not all this snuggling,sleeping together,dinners,pampering.Ark may suggest "enticing" the WS back home but isn't that a little like selling yourself out? Would she be coming back home for the *right reasons? I understand where you are coming from but I imagine we may disagree on how to approach this subject.Which is ok if YOU are ok with what you did.No one here can force you to do what you don't want but I think I would have gone about it differently is all.

You said you haven't spent much time at all with her in the past 7 months.So,why all the catering and intimate time? Would you do this on a new date? Isn't it about getting to know one another again first?

I guess what I would be looking for is a light bulb switching.Where she knows,"ok,I may have another chance here to make things right.My BH is receptive to just hearing me out,I have to make the best of this new opportunity".Something that says she will not squander away another chance for you now that it is on the table.I don't hear that from what you said,she sounds like she still isn't sure which way she is going or what she really wants.If the M has any importance right now to her,she has to pick herself up off the floor and start making some changes,in one direction or another.This isn't just going to happen for her,nor you.You will both need to make it happen and again it comes down to knowing that in order for a marriage to work succesfully and have meaning,2 people need to be working on it.It's not one sided "what will you do for me" games.It has to be a partnership.

Well,as usual,keep us updated.I hope I am all wrong about your WW.We shall see.

O