I am considering sending her this message that I copied from a post on this board. She is living in another city and not the same city as OM. Although I suspect she is still in contact with him. So should I send this--she told me he is my soulmate:
"The Soulmate?

It's a mythical creature, much like the Unicorn and the Pegasus. Sighted about as often. A favorite delight of those who consider themselves "romantics". What they fail to recognize, until properly educated and fully matured, is that the closest thing to a "Soulmate" on earth is not someone or something that you "stumble" upon; but rather something that you create...usually the result of many years of work building trust, friendship, and love. Many people in "A"'s sacrifice their true "Soulmates" for something that matches someone ELSE's interpretation.

Thus sayeth a romantic...."

I saw that too, Hopeful. You could try sending it to her, but it probably won't make a dent in her fog.

Are you still doing okay? I know the holidays are hard.

i tried sending a couple of text messages to the OW and she always had some smart reply which made me feel even worse. i wouldnt bother. she's not worth the effort.
reewil <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

After thinking about this overnight, I have decided not to send this to her. Probalby wouldn't faze her, she would think I am trying to control her. So I will let her sit in her own juices.

Believer, I am doing OK. My youngest son came home from college yesterday so now I have so company. He is 19 and doesn't stay home much but that is OK. Oldest son wants his mother home for Christmas but youngest son doesn't. I have discussed this issue with my daughter. What do you think? Do I invite her for Christmas?

Let’s see Hopefull,
Last I herd you were in Plan B and I guess that technically asking your WW into your home for the Holidays would be a major Plan B snafu.

Given the emotional impact of the Holidays on all of us, a purist would probably conclude, what better example could you provide to your WW of what her life has become, then her being alone for the Holidays? And I guess that this is one way to drive home the very essence of what Plan B is all about but I wonder. I kind of think that your WW is one very stubborn woman, so I’m wondering if this thing hasn’t become a test of will between you two rather then an issue of infidelity.

Do you think that possibly, the focus is now on winning the argument rather then saving the marriage? Do you think it’s possible that now that your point has been made, that your WW might be more receptive to a new Plan A? And don’t mistake my meaning here. I’m not suggesting a sudden full court press to get right back into the resumption of the relationship as it was before but instead, maybe you just putting out an Olive Branch and acting toward her like just a friend.

Maybe you could build on this kind of gesture and could resume having a relationship initially based on a new friendship so that she could begin to see you again in this role rather in the role you used to occupy for her. And I’m not talking about you calling her every day or dating her every night or pressing her to sleep with you again. I’m talking about something very casual yet very sincere. Something that would happen very slowly. I’m talking about you two getting to know each other again. Laughing together about things and enjoying the commonalities you two share as people.

I’m talking about a relationship where it’s taken for granted that she is “dating” other(s) and just not discussed. I’m talking about a relationship in which the marriage as it is right now, is never discussed. I’m talking about she and you coming together as old friends and you asking for nothing more and NOT OFFERING anything more. I guess what I’m talking about is a new beginning. A new start where she comes to the conclusion that she doesn’t want to date any else.

I just kind of think that if she could see you in this role then maybe she would begin to remember you as the kind loving man you are, rather then the impediment to her willful behavior. Maybe the OM isn’t impediment you think to you two getting back together. Maybe the impediment is something as simple as a woman’s stubborn pride.

And so, if it were me, then yes Plan B or not, I would ask her home for the Holidays. And in doing so I would be very careful to treat her as a friend and a guest. A valued friend and a guest but a friend and a guest never the less. And if she’s human I would hope that this will break her heart and maybe open her eyes just a little bit.

Coach

Wow, I like coach's solution. I know it is not according to the MB program, but I think he is on to something.

But like he says, no relationship talk, no pressure. You have been very strong, and I think you are one of the few that can do this.

Thanks Coach and Believer for your kind and thoughful response. I think I will invite her for Christmas. I don't want to be alone on this special day especially since all of our children will be there. An olive branch extended is not a bad thing. I just wonder if she will accept. If she does great, if she doesn't that's OK too. I will make the offer.

HINC,

I also like Coaches suggestion. LIke everything in this sort of mess, there is no clear cut answer, but the one thing that tips it for me is that your children want her home. Frankly if it was just you I would say stay in plan B. Make her have Christmas in some strange place away from you and friends, but this is something your kids want and I suspect you want as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Be friendly and see how you handle it. It may be harder than you think. I would NOT expect her to "see the light", "come out of the fog", or really change her course because of this, but I think this is your children's way of trying themselves. So have a talk with them, and if it is really what they want to try, then go with them.

You may regret many things by doing this, but I doubt you will regret extending your hand in kindness toward her and I know you won't regret helping your children feel better.

God Bless,

JL

I agree. H left me alone at Christmas. It was the most depressing thing I had ever experienced. I drank my face off, and cried the whole day.

I woke up alone in my townhome, with no tree, and without my husband to open gifts with.

Sounds cruel, but it's an eye opener.

JL, good to hear from you. I respect your opinion so much. I have been pretty dark for with her. I will take you and coach's suggestion and make the offer. I don't know if she will take my offer or not. When she was here for T'giving, youngest son who is very opioninated had it out with her. He is still very angry with her. My oldest daughter did not have it out with her but did express her displeasure with her mother's decisions. But my middle son, who lives in Florida, wants to see her. I suspect the other 2 want her here. It won't be the same without Mom her for Christmas. And to be honest, I want her here. So we will see if she will take my offer.
As to the matter of timing, when should I ask her? I am thinking this weekend. Any suggestions?

Hi hopeful,

Well,it sounds like you made up your mind already but I am going to go against the grain here and say that I don't think it's a good idea to invite WW back home.Part of the consequences of not being with family including around the holidays is that she chose to be with someone ELSE.In her view,it's the "soulmate".Gag.

IMO,your WW needs to rejoin the family under certain conditions don't you think? Isn't this just giving her more cake and allowing her to step all over everyone and ignore her poor behavior? You extend an olive branch only so she can snap it off and use it for the fireplace back at her current residence.

This to me sends a conflicting and negative message to your adult children who are watching you and how you deal with this situation.You mentioned that at least one child does not want her there at home for Christmas.Why are they not visiting her at her place? Is it too far to drive?

I do think you can reach out to a WS at a certain point but not when they are obvioulsy living another life,away,in contact with an OP and not committed in any way to the family or marriage.There is the BIG difference to me.How many times do you keep opening the door for her to walk through and then leave again? Holidays are difficult for sure but it's the same as any other day in my book when it comes to adultery.They don't get to have the cozy warm home full of laughter and merryment at my expense and that of my children just so they can have their moment of fulillment and then take off again,getting their fix.You are a loving H and father hopeful.You are not to be used at will.She comes home and takes a piece of you and meanwhile you die a little death each time when she doesn't stay or commit.

Plan B is Plan B.If you are going to break it then be aware that you may just be hurt in the process,and so will your children.

Please take care.

O

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Hopeful - As a woman, I think you should ask her right away. That way she has time to decline, think about it, and then accept. Also it will give her time to do a little planning.

Octobergirl, certainly your opion is valid. And I don't have a logical reponse for it. My youngest son agrees with you. Let her stew in her own decisions. I am torn. I haven't as yet extended the invitation. I don't know for sure that she is still in contact but I suspect very strongly she is. Although not living in the same city as OM. Yes she has choosen to live about 300 miles from me. Not too far to drive but oldest son has only the Christmas weekend off and my daughter kives 300 miles the other direction from her. Youngest son doesn't have a car, so visiting her is not a real good answer for the kids. So i will think long and hard. Thanks for your response.

B,

I don't normally disagree with your posts but this is not some romantic ball that she may or may not go after deciding, "Hmmm,should I go? What to wear?".No planning.If you have been following the posts,this woman does not deserve this courtesy at this juncture,sorry.

O

Octobergirl - I'm torn too. But his WW (not sticking up for her) seems to me not to be the typical one. She did sign their house over to him. It seems to me that she does realize that she is doing the wrong thing, but is rather stubborn.

Hopeful has done a great Plan A. This has been a tough year for the whole family.

Hopeful has stood up for himself and laid out his boundaries, which are that WW cannot live with him and call OM.

I still like coach's idea. I know it is not the MB Plan B. Maybe others will give some input.

hopeful,

Ok.Let's take the OM out of the equation for a minute.If you and your WW do not survive the Infidelity,visitation is still going to be a problem because if you D and you are like most people who spend their holidays with their kids seaprately,not in one home,this has to be dealt with at some point only now it's here and staring you in the face.What to do? This is just another painful and sorry consequence of splitting a family up due to selfish adultery.

Kids are caught in the middle,no matter how hard we try not to let that happen and then part of the process becomes how do children get to see both parents who no longer live together.

I am dealing with this too.Only,my WH is going to be responsible for seeing his kids,making the time to see them and making arrangements.This does most definitely put a big damper on his relationship with the homewrecker.As it is,he only sees her EOW too,just like his children.Only I always thought his children would come first,so they unfortunately deal with a part time dad.He has to keep the new adulterous relationship going to some degree or she just might finally have had enough and bail on him so he gives up his time with the kids to see the homewrecker.See? My WH has to now start shifting around his schedules,time and driving(he lives 4.5 hours away) to accomodate his newfound life.But that's not my problem.It's his.

Same for your WW.But,I'm not sure this is a big concern for her yet and it won't be if she is allowed to come by the house to see your kids at home.It is convenient for her and she will most likely take you up on the offer unless she just cannot handle to pressure of her family knowing what she has done.

Back to the table though,you still have no committment whatsoever from your WW and she is living far away.Your last confrontation with her left you upset and she is still deep in the "fog" or whatever she is in.Ahem.

I understand how nice and easy it sounds to have your WW at home.Sometimes it just feels like the right thing to do at the moment but then how many times I have read here when an attempt like this is met with disaster and more pain.Just know that it is a risk you are taking and that it might very well not go so good and then the Holiday is left with a stain upon it,for another year.

Ask yourself,what exactly Do I hope to gain? Is this really in the best interest of my children given the state your WW is in?

O

P.S. Go back and reread what foggy-nomore wrote.Even a FWW confirms that being alone at this time of year is a time to reflect on ones decisions,as much as any fogged person can that is.

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Octobergirl, thanks. I see your point. OM is still, as far as I know, still living at home with his wife and kids. He has a 19yr old and a 13 yr old. The soulmate who so wanted to marry my wife has not left his family. I suspect he won't. It would cost him big bucks. Did I memtion that he is pretty well off. His wife has tolerated for what ever reason the phone calls. I can't.
You have made a very sound and logical call. But yet I am still torn. I have every hope that we can restore this marriage. We have 30 years of history together. Part of her problem is a MLC. I went through that very early in my adult life.
I will consider your opion very carefully as well as the others that have been so kind as to post to me.
I have got to get this off my mind for a while. I will check back later. For now, I am going to play a little golf and have a little fun.

Hi again,

Yes,do go off and have some much needed fun.Get some holes in one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just for later reading when you get back,as you know,ultimately we all have to make decisons for ourselves.We are only a message board here and give opinions based on experience and knowledge.It is up to you how you want to deal with the holidays.

I'm not sure what lots of money means in the grand scheme of adultery.Yes it's great to be able to spend spend spend but it's a very superficial veneer to adultery that can only support it's evilness(is that a word? lol)Even wealthy people have problems that surface when it comes down to the HUMAN aspect of life.Not what THINGS you are able to obtain.The OMW I am sure would do very well if she decided to D the OM which may be one reason,albeit a selfish reason,for the OM not to want a D or go through with one.

He would be taken to the cleaners,as I am doing to my WH.He will have virtually no money left over to spend on the homewrecker after we are done with our D.I am not out to destroy him but ther ei sno way my children and I are going to go without for some homewrecking OW.No way.

I know you have a lot invested in your marriage.I do as well.20 years total together,best friends,14 year marriage,two beautiful daughters,great families,beautiful home,dog,etc etc.You can have hope for your marriage but for many of us there comes a time when you really have to accept what IS versus what isn't.That would be me.

Ugh.What a tangled web they they weave.....

You'll figure this out hopeful.It's great that you will have your children with you.They are truly little blessings,angels here on earth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

Octobergirl and others, thanks for the input. I especially like waht you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can have hope for your marriage but for many of us there comes a time when you really have to accept what IS versus what isn't.

I am trying my best to accept what is. It is very hard to do. I keep remembering what was instead what is.

I haven't made up my mind about the holidays yet but I welcome any input.

My 2 cents....

Invite her for dinner... and a few hours of family time ... and she is NOT invited to sleep at your house...

If you decide to invite her, be sure to tell her to book her motel early as they fill up fast.

She should be there for family time with the kids, and then ... she needs to leave to sleep somewhere else. Make that fact very understood.

You offer gracious co-parenting, and nothing more. You are not running a motel for wayward wives.

Pep