Ok. Here is a brief synopsis.

Husband started cheating 2 or so years ago. First online ,and then in real life.

He moved out a year ago and left us destitute. I couldn't stay at our house; no heat, no money , no car etc. I got a job, and I live at my job.

Very little contact with him for several months, except when I contacted him.

As far as I know, until as recently as two weeks ago he was still sleeping with ow on occasion.

He recently moved back into our house, and has been spending quite a bit of time here, with our daughter, and with me. The occasional overnight, (with sf).

A while ago in conversation I told him that he is free, that I didn't manipulate him into marrying me, and that I am not forcing him to be here against his will. I dont' have any 'plans' to move in with him etc.

(Unless and until he is ready to be married- to love cherish and honor forsaking all others, to support us, to be committed , monogamous, and until we are on the same page spiritually, there is no point. We were a house divided, and that house fell down with a great crash.)

This arrangement suits me . It is mainly about our DD, with a bit of closeness between us.

He has been here a fair bit this week working on my car, and spending time with DD. Tonight we went to her Xmas concert. It was very nice. I got dressed up ( for him) and was hoping tha since we haven't been intimate for several days, that he might stay the night.

With me so far?

I asked him if he would like to stay the night. I was giving off the signals.

He said no, that he has stuff to do at home, and to my surprise, he sounded very hurt when he said, "you said you don't want to live together."

This is the second time he has brought this up in three days.

Did I miss something?

HE left ME. Not the other way around. He didn't want to be married.


He abused me, left me , cheated on me, didn't call for months, abandoned his child, etc... and now he is hurt b/c I don't want to live with him????

I think this is bs, and that he is feeling sorry for himself b/c he just figured out that he threw me away and I am not there anymore begging him to come back.

The other day he mentioned that I don't wear my wedding ring anymore. He seemed hurt. I didn't say anything.

I took it off months ago.

I will wear a ring when he says the promises that go with it, and means them, and proves it.

Do I need to spell this out for him?

I can't believe that he is hurt. What did he think would happen when he threw me away? That I would run back there the second he showed up?

Maybe he is getting the wrong idea b/c I have been loving and affectionate with him.

I am safe here, and I am not going to put myself and DD at risk by living with him unless and until I see major changes in him, and for starters, that means no other women. I was clear about that.

I wonder if he even knows what marriage means.

Shul

Yes, you are sending mixed signals.

I won't wear my ring..but we can have sex.

I won't live with you, except when you live here, but not officially.

Where exactly are your boundaries..even I am confused.

[No sarcasm at all..really, do you have some ideas?]

Noodle

Yes, I see what you mean.

I can't live with him.

I see this as him coming over a couple of nights a week for supper, spend time with our daughter, and staying the night, have sex.

A couple, but living apart.

I am able to provide the basics for myself and our daughter .
I want him to pay the debts that he left behind, and help out with extras for our daughter.

Now tell me about how this is not sending mixed signals.

On the one hand..you say..we'll be married when we are "married" and list off the things that qualify.

On the other hand..he comes and goes like he owns the place and has..I guess..illicit? sex with you..since you aren't married..since he did not meet the aforementioned stipulations.

What is going on with this Shul?

Noodle

i would say it sounds confusing as well Shul but at the same time i am not in your shoes and could not at all say what i would be doing or how i would be acting. however, i would also say that it is apparent that he has noticed the changes that you have made and that you are having an effect on him, now what exactly kind of effect i'm not sure.

i'm not sure what you missed because i think it's something that you had to be there for because just by reading what you wrote it seemed to me that he was re-iterating that he didn't want to live w/you and that his occasional stops over are still where he wants to leave things. but then again, I could have missed something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

as always, continued prayers to you, RR

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Noodle,

For me it is about survival.

I guess we need a point of reference.

At one end of the scale, a marriage in which we lived together ( when he was there), but no emotional intimacy. Physical abuse, abandonment, adultery.

On the other end of the scale:

Love. A husband who is committed to caring for his family, and who doesn't do anything that might jeopardise their wellbeing. Mutual respect, mutual accountability, monogamy etc. Ideally, partners in serving God.

Our relationship sort of wildly vacillated between the two extremes.

Until he has dealt with his stuff, I don't know if he is capable of being a husband.

Now I am just trying to survive, and care for our daughter. I am out of harms way.

I have been dealt a very bad hand, and I am trying to make the best of it.

I feel like I should put a disclaimer at the top of my posts, warning people that our marriage is not MB material.

Only salvagable by God, I think.

Shul,

Every single marriage here is in crisis..only salvageable by God. Yours really is no exception..unless you are hanging on when you really ought to be letting go.

What concerns me..is that you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I want a true marriage, you proclaim, until it is inconvenient to uphold that standard. Either he IS your H or he isn't. Make up your mind. If you need to protect yourself from him, then do so..but that means in every area.

We have talked about this before..and I feel a bit as though nothing anyone has to say will make a dent in the path you have selected..and it is your life so be it. Shul..your appraoch has met with zero success. H is STILL with OW after two years..you do realize that in this amount of time..the A could have died a natural death if you were not tossing gas on the fire?

I think it would really help it you ceased trying to justify what is obviously a failing plan with the rationization that YOUR H is special and YOUR case is unique. This is fog talk. He is screwing around, ditching his responsibilities and cake eating..nothing new about that..every person here has a backstory and baggage.

The real question becomes..what are YOUR standards. Is there anything so low you will not accept it?

I would say..get in or get out, and stop being so afraid of failure that you fail by inaction. You may very well lose this marriage..really it has been lost already and as of yet has not recoverred.

You can not love him into being the person you want him to be. It is beyond your control and God isn't accountable to you. Your H has a will as free as any other. You CAN have an active hand in his destruction..and I really feel that you are contributing by allowing him to remain in limbo LONG after he ought to have sufferred enough to make the hard choices.

What is preventing you from moving on until/unless H is ready? What is preventing you from getting out of the way?

This is NOT about survival Shul..it is about denial. You can survive without him..and he without you.

Noodle

RR,

I had the feeling that he felt hurt because I rejected him- that in his mind he came back, and I wasn't there.

It occurs to me that its possible that he thinks he is the one who has been wronged in all this- that he was just out there trying to get a job etc., and that he was entitled to have his freedom at the same time.

Comments like; " we are just really good friends who have sex"( when I asked him what was up with the ow).

When he moved in with her for a month, he commented that yes he sleeps with her , but "only from 11 pm until 6 am".

When I finally took DD to see him after 3 months of him not seeing her or calling, he said I was 'constantly chasing' him. He honestly had no idea that it had been that long. He thought it had been a week or so.

Last night I called him back, and explained that I was disappointed that he didn't stay. I had been looking forward to being with him. Instead of being flattered that I had dressed up and made an effort to seduce him, he was angry that I 'made him feel guilty' for not staying.

Big chip on his shoulder.

Like I said, only God can figure this out.

Hi shul,

I agree with noodle.It sounds to me like you are all over the map,every one is coming and going,hurt still prevails,you've been abused but yet,this man is still in your home? WHY? Do you not think this might be affecting your DD? How can this arrangement suit you? Honestly,is this all you want out of life? I am not trying to offend you ok? Just putting this questions out there.

Let me use a small 2x4 here.You cannot expect any stability and committment from this man as long as you ALLOW this situation,as is,to continue.Plain and simple.You are giving your WH the wrong idea because of your indecision and lack of boundaries,which is the word of the hour these days.

How is this about survival? What exactly is your WH giving you that you could not do without,and better than by keeping your WH out of your life right now until he can make you and the family/marriage a priority? Is his scraps all that you are willing to take? How about a fully committed loving relationship? Isn't that what you and DD deserve?

Why did you allow him to move back in for heavens sake? If your marriage is not MB material,just what is it actually?

You contradict yourself over and over.Example.You let your WH back into your home but yet you don't want to put yourself and DD at risk by having him there unless you see major changes in him.Isn't that supposed to come FIRST?

You need to go back Shul and reread what you posted and see if it doesn't become more clear that you are settling and you don't seem to have a plan for a healthy situation at home or for your self and DD.

O

Noodle, if you are right, then the past twenty years

Um..I think something is wrong with the post..or I need it explained to me..or..something

Noodle

There's an ol saying us country folks have; why buy the cow if you get the milk for free.

Sounds to me like he is getting the milk for free. Just a male's perspecitve.

To put a slightly different spin on it, I would say that you're acting like he's a man who you're dating, not married to.

The problem with that is that there's no long-term approach to solving the problems between you. You each may get some short-term satisfaction out of it, and your daughter gets to see her dad. Those are good things, but if y'all aren't going to figure out how to deal, in the long term, with the problems you have, it looks to me like this is a short-term arrangement. That may be okay as a bridge to other things, though -- so my question is, where are you going in the longer term?

Have you read Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders? (Recently reissued as The One.)

You might want to read it; it'll give you a really good sense of how things progress in couples and where your situation is right now.