That sounds like a good plan K,

do your Christmas shopping, come home and BUSY yourself...do not answer phone calls, doorbells, anything, and don't be alarmed if phonecalls and doorbells don't come to. He's probably been expecting this...

Let them revel in their warm, lonely, stressful, cheerful(?) Christmas together. Let him see what he'll be missing without you for this holiday.

I agree with ark, the signs have been there for a LOooong time, now proof.

After d-day FWH promised NC and sent an email...then he proceeded to be nasty, surly, jerky, you name it for hte next month and a half, even though I was being sweet, sweet, sweet. I had no proof of ongoing contact, didn't even suspect it, just figured he was carrying a torch for her and resented me for keeping him from her, I asked him to leave and moved to Plan B. I found out later after TRUE recovery started that contact had not ended after that first email...

Follow your gut on this one...but keep your emotions in check. I think the WS feels a little better about their decisions if you rage at them...they can justify the A and they can let go of some guilt at the same time...like they are enduring punishment. Be graceful, strong, and distant. You deserve better!!!

Okay.....

I shouldn't go up there and leave his bags in his car? With the letter?

I want to go there to go shopping anyway, and DD lives there. I would like to talk to her.

He will drive all the way home.....60 miles....to find his bags packed, and me gone?

K

K, I'm with Ark on this one. Why are you going to the Christmas party? Are you feeling in a Christmasy mood? And your comment "Guess I could tell him then?" Honey, there ain't no guessing here. And what difference does it make if you have his passwords? It gives you the ability to intercept even more sleezy messages from OW and have more proof? How much proof do you need?

K, I'm pretty sure I did write this before. It's something that I heard and actually just posted on Recovery yesterday. Listen closely. "When the pain you feel from avoidance and denial (defense mechanisms) become greater than what you are trying to deny and avoid, then you will take action." Do you want this dysfunctional person, your H, making life choices for you? Or are you going to reclaim your life? Has the pain finally gotten great enough for you to love yourself enough to do what you need to do, because I think you know your H will continue to choose dysfunction.

I understand the benefits of exposure. I guess my question to the experts here is the Christmas party, in the state you're in, the best time and place to expose? I want you to come off being the classy lady you are. I think if it was me I would not take one call from your H today, and I wouldn't show up at the party. As Spidey said I'd have his clothes waiting for him with that Plan B letter. And if you have any good friends to be with, be with them when you know he'll be home. Just my thoughts. realize I am feeling angry for you right now. CV

bags??
One change of clothes..
toothbrush...unless it is being used to clean things at the present time.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what was your plan B plan..

was he leaving
were you...

gotta figure he will need clothes and things....
do you have intermediary....

will you let him in this weekend to get the rest of stuff...
will you have someone else bring them to him...

if you see him ..you will verbally engage with him....
there is no way to avoid it..

what do you believe his reaction will be...

denial
blame
regret
remorse..
and how hard will he try to talk to you..
gotta prepare for these things...

ark

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

K7,

Yes. Let him make the drive home. Don't go to him.

that works for me..plan b letter you gone...

but was that your plan b plan...that you'd go...
or was it that he'd go...

if he comes home...won't he just come in and make himself at home...which is fine if you are not going to be there...

ark

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong> Okay.....

I shouldn't go up there and leave his bags in his car? With the letter?

I want to go there to go shopping anyway, and DD lives there. I would like to talk to her.

He will drive all the way home.....60 miles....to find his bags packed, and me gone?

K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K,

This is just MY opinion. But, no, I wouldn't take his bags.

Go up there. Go shopping. See DD.

Why take your time and your energy to load his stuff?

Why put yourself through going to the bowling alley, where you know he is, or to work, where again, you know he is?

That would bother me and I would be hard pressed to not see him since I was so close. I'd want to have it out on the hope he would realize how dumb he was, declare his love and swear to do everything right to stay with me.

I'd need to hear I'm wrong and WANT to have him explain it away.

The most dangerous lie is the one you want to hear.

Then again, you are different than me. I think it is just a small torture to yourself to do it.

As for him driving 60 miles and not finding you there?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That's just me though.

That's 60 miles of thinking he has the wool pulled over your eyes.....

and 60 more to think about K being serious about kicking his butt to the curb.

And No Talking! No Conversation. At All!


NONE! [Don't make me drive out to wherever you are to stuff your ears and tape your mouth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ]

You are so vulnerable to his lies and rationalizations that even when you think you ARE standing up for yourself, you still miss the big picture and he wins. He's clever, and good at misdirection. It's easy to spot from this distance.

Do not even explain to him what you are doing, or why.

Just a letter with a big bow on it [FIM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ]

Noodle

Also!

I agree..he'll just disregard you if he possibly can. Change the locks before he gets home today.

Noodle

Thanks for all your replies.....you are all too good to me.

I can take my dog and go to DD's place.

I will not answer his calls. I'm done. Let him explain to his friends why I'm not at some of the things we have planned.

My Plan B letter:

WH

It is with great sorrow that I feel I must write this letter. I love you very much. However, I cannot go thru this again. There is no room in our M for 3 people.

You have continued to be in contact with OW. You have lied to me about. All the excuses you gave me for contact were just that....excuses. And you still have not told me the whole truth about anything.

I am asking you to leave. I do this because I can no longer allow you to disrespect me and our M. You made a lot of promises to me before you moved back home. You have not even tried to fulfill any of them. I hope you realize I am not playing "head" games with you. Our life together means more to me than that.

If you decided you want to stay married to me... you must:

Have no contact with OW. What so ever. Of any kind. Period. Even if you have to change jobs.

Go to a counselor. You have always been very strong, and strong willed. But I feel that you have gotten into a position where your strength is not of help to you.

Radical honesty. And you must be WILLING to do what ever it takes to help me feel secure in our marriage. Your life must be an open bood to me, as mine is to you.

Be 100% committed to the recovery of our marriage.

Marriage counseling, or marriage coaching by telephone.

I will send your mail to you at work. I will deposit the rent money and the money for the 4 wheeler payment into your account, and send the deposit slip to you. All payments and financial arrangements we have can remain the same as far as I am concerned.

Please do not contact me. If you do come to the realization of what our marriage could be, and how happy we could be together, you will find a way to get in touch with me.

If you should feel like doing anything to hurt yourse, you must first think of your children, and what any of your actions would do to them. Everything we do in our lives affects someone else. Especially those closest to us.

I am asking you for a reason to continue our M. Please give me a reason. In my heart, I still have hope for you, and me, and our M.

You already know how much I love you. I need to feel the same from you in order for us to continue. You have always been the love of my life. I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

K

Okay?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>Right in front of his boss and everyone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you never plan to see your H again, and never get together with him again.. you could do that.
If you plan to go to plan B.. ask yourself what you would gain from this action? Does it help stop the A? Or is it a way of venting your (quite understandable) frustration that will do your M no good if you ever get back together?

I think it's more important that you take time to make your decision. It's like quitting smoking - you know it's not good for you, everyone is telling you it's not good for you, but YOU have to decide. You are the only one who can say "no more, you have gone too far".

Next thing is strategy. How will you implement your decision? What will be most efficient? If you go to plan B, do you want someone there with you when you tell H or do you want to do this alone? Can you handle being alone afterwards? What will you do if H start to plead and beg and promise "he'll never do it again" ?

If you decide to let things "be" and continue.. what will it take for you to feel good about your M ?

WH

It is with great sorrow that I feel take out the words feel I must write this letter. I love you very much. However, I cannot take out cannot and say will not go thru this again. take out again and say anymore There is no room in our M for 3 people.

next paragraph should be acknowledgement of what role you played in the marriage that assisted him in feeling like he needed to go elsewhere...and an apology

You have continued to be in contact with OW. You have lied to me about. All the excuses you gave me for contact were just that....excuses. And you still have not told me the whole truth about anything. too much blame...he knows what he has lied about...as do you...

I am asking you to leave. I do this because I can no longer allow you to disrespect me and our M. you can't stop him from disrepecting the marriage you can only stop your exposure to his actions...change the wording... You made a lot of promises to me before you moved back home. You have not even tried to fulfill any of them. I hope you realize tell him you are not playing games....i am done with the chaos. I am not playing "head" games with you. Our life together means more to me than that.

If you decided you want to stay married to me... you must: change this to I hope you want to stay married as I also desire nothing more than a fullfilling honest marriage with you..or something like that...

Have no contact with OW. What so ever. Of any kind. Period. Even if you have to change jobs.

don't admonish ...just state no contact with third parties in our marriage

Go to a counselor. You have always been very strong, and strong willed. But I feel that you have gotten into a position where your strength is not of help to you. counseling to figure out where things went wrong how to make them better...and never return to such a dark time together agiain

Radical honesty. And you must be WILLING to do what ever it takes to help me feel secure in our marriage. Your life must be an open bood to me, as mine is to you. that's a recovery issue not a plan b issue...gotta keep it realistic...people that don't believe in honesty...can't imagine being honest..let alone radically honest
Be 100% committed to the recovery of our marriage.

Marriage counseling, or marriage coaching by telephone.

I will send your mail to you at work. I will deposit the rent money and the money for the 4 wheeler payment into your account, and send the deposit slip to you. All payments and financial arrangements we have can remain the same as far as I am concerned.

Please do not contact me. If you I pray do come to the realization of what our marriage could be, and how happy we could be together, you will find a way to get in touch with me. how much I believe in you

If you should feel like doing anything to hurt yourse, you must first think of your children, and what any of your actions would do to them. Everything we do in our lives affects someone else. Especially those closest to us.
cut this why plant such a seed???

I am asking you for a reason to continue our M. Please give me a reason. In my heart, I still have hope for you, and me, and our M. cut this

You already I hope you know how much know how much I love you. I need to feel the same from you in order for us to continue. cut that line You have always been the love of my life. I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

K

K 7:

First, you have my sympathy for STILL being in this situation.

This is going to come across as negative.....(which I regret), but it is necessary from time to time.

SO Honestly, what's soooo different this time??

This isn't the first time you've caught him at this or that. (or worse)!

This isn't the first time you've come on here emotional and hurting.

Yet, WHY is This Time any different?

Your pattern is to get upset, ask for advise/support, get a plan together.....

Then you begin to calm down, OVER Think Things, never follow through....

Then your H comes in, talks his talk and then you are back under his thumb.....
(Then unfortunately, the cycle begins all over again). Arrrgh

In your H's mind, Why should he change?

He has NO Incentive to to so......as YOUR the only one that doesn't like things the way they are right now.
Hate to have to tell you that......but its true.

So I'll go back into the background and wait to see if you actually DO make him face SOME Type of Consequences for His actions.

For your own sanity as well as emotional health.....I truly hope you begin to take actions that will indeed help your situation......instead of thinking that your "self sacrifice" is somehow worth this illusion of "keeping the peace"!

Is change scary?
Unfortunately, in most cases it is. We ALL understand that.
Yet if You want things too change.....its up to you to be the catalyst to make it happen.

Sadly, none of us can Do any of this FOR YOU.
You have to Help Yourself!
I wish you success in doing so.

(P.S.--- I will be Oh so happy if you take this as the oppurtunity to prove me wrong). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm routing for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It looks like the decision has been made while I was typing my last reply, K.

Surround yourself with good people. Make yourself strong.

((((K)))))

K, I'm curious...

Is the Four-Wheeler his? If so..why are you agreeing to continue paying for it?

The loss of his toys should be one of the consequences of his actions. If he can't pay for it...that's HIS problem, not yours.

Please know, there are many people praying for you K.

also... don't forget to change the locks.

Dear K,

should you be tempted to talk to H "one last time", give him some sort of "last chance"... What would be the possible positive outcome of that?

He might deny, thus "insulting your intelligence".
He might say it's all quite innocent and that you should't be overreacting.
He might get angry.
He might promise "he'll never do it again".
etc. etc.

Is there any reaction that would make you feel good? That would really help you? Would you believe him, give him another chance if he says "But from now on things will be different, I promise, you'll see!!"

Try to be logical. Your might feel lousy at first, going through your own withdrawl, but you will lose more and more self-respect if you continue to let this cake-eating, fence-sitting happen.

K,
I just HAD to post to you...sounds a LOT like my FWH and myself. After d-day there was continued contact for over 2 years!! Yes, I confronted whenever I found out, but I wanted to believe him so much and he seemed so sincere, that each time, I did.

I did two Plan B's--the last involved taking our 1 y.o. D out of state to live with my parents. Promised NC and he did try, but she persisted and it continued. We were trying to recover, but with contact, it was slow, hurtful and difficult.

I finally reached a point that I decided I could not look myself in the mirror if I continued to stay M to a man who could do this to me---answer her calls "Just to catch up" when he knew how much it hurt me. I told him that I would no longer live like that and I meant it.

I would really like to encourage you to do a very strong Plan B and stick with it. You have a cake eater on your hands and everything you have done so far has not changed that. He is not respecting you. Change the locks, leave the Plan B letter and do NOT talk to him. I know my H is very charismatic and charming, and I'll bet yours is too. Combine that with wanting to believe he is sincere and you could go on with this quite a while. He needs to stop contact and be able to prove it to you, and then start working on your M. Until then, Plan B dark.

Hang in there, you have many thinking of you and supporting you here.

I might not go to the party, K, but your instinct about exposure is PERFECT.

Call the boss this afternoon and apologize. Say you're really sorry that you won't be able to come to the party. And then say, "I'm separating from WH today. I'm sure you know about his affair with OW. He had assured me that there was no contact between them, but I found out today that they are in contact. I love WH, but I can't live with the pain of this situation anymore. I'll be gone when WH gets home, and I do apologize for any disruption this may cause."

It's a beautiful exposure opportunity. Go ahead and use it. Carefully, lovingly, and compassionately. With the understanding that it will infuriate your WH -- and that's just fine.

My Plan B letter is rewritten. I have already talked to DD about spending the night at her house.

Now, I have to pack his things.

What's different this time? Like I said last week, I have turned a corner. I don't know how or why, but I have. I can no longer live like this. It is literally killing me.

I don't know if I can get the locks changed today. But I will try.

I don't want to look into the eyes of a liar anymore. I'd rather look in the mirror and feel good about myself.

K