My H and I face a rather long separation in the near future [March, coincidentally..our two year D day month].

He is electing to leave the military specifically because he feels it is not a healthy environment for families. I agree.

In order to realistically set this in motion, I have to go ahead of him to make arrangements..find work..establish new insurance etc.

We will be separated about four months, give or take.

If we do not do this, we will have a lifetime of separations of varying lengths as it is part and parcel of military life. Not a risk I am willing to embrace.

So..I am going to bring up negotiating the HOW of all of this with our MC. I could sure use some ideas about what ground to cover..approach, wording..etc. Should I take the children with me? Well, obviously the one still nursing has to come..but is taking them all necessarily a given? I ask because..1) I'll have to pull DD out of school..put her into a new one..then put her into another new one the following year..that's 3 schools in one 12 month period of time. 2) It makes for a family environment..not leaving him with nothing but temptation and finger twiddling..he would have something to do..and company to keep him from being lonely.

Initially I had just assumed that of course all the kids will come with me..it's what I *do*. As I sat here typing though..it occurred to me that it didn't have, necessarily to be so. I feel weird about it..but surely no less weird than he must feel about such a long separation from them also. Huh..maybe that's something else we can go over with MC.

Ideas?

Noodle

[well, I got most of the typos]

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Noodle, in order for my H to get out of the Army years ago, we did a 3-month separation. The boys stayed with him. He got an honorable, on a hardship discharge.

We looked at it as a means to an end, using teamwork and resources for the goodness of our family.

Teamwork, baby. That is key, IMO.

Spidey

Totally..

But I'm looking for specific ideas. I got to lay the framework so that I can feel safe. So that when we reunite we can make fireworks instead of me dubiously suggesting another six month wait and two sets of std testing.

I need some ideas about extraordinary precautions..some ideas about childcare..as he does have to go into the feild on..say..zero notice and then what?

There is much work to be done..and I need all the help I can get.

Thanks

Noodle

Oh, and also some ideas about what he might do to keep MY LB full..it tends to dwindle when we are separated..the dreams..etc.

Maybe lots of phone contact? Ideas? Can we meet each others needs long distance?

Noodle

How old is DD, and what kind of support system do you have in your current location? Any at all? Are you living on a military base? In the USA?

I love the idea of leaving DD with daddy and I'll tell ya why -

My dad was in the USAF, always gone on TDY and two years in Nam. I never saw him as a child, only my mother, until I ended up caring for him through his alcoholism years later.

I love the ideas of kids becoming close to dads as children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Feeling safe is a feeling you must find inside of yourself, IMO. I do not think anyone can create that for you.

I would suggest phone calls, and also writing daily. Maybe not send a letter each day, but try and both write something about your day, each day, and send it off.

One part of the hardship discharge is that when H had to go into the field, he didn't have anyone (we were stationed in Germany) to take care of the kids. Ergo the discharge. But, to do that, I had to cancel my command sponsorship over there, and we had to legally separate (advice from the chaplin, since H's command refused to reduce his constant working hours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ).

Communication, often and effectively and carefully, is my suggestion to you, Noodle.

Spidey

Weaver,

DD [6] is very close to her Dad, she would be just fine staying with him at least until school is out..but we have zero support system..they are shutting down housing here..everyone we know has moved already..we have also taken a lot of losses with re to people who might have helped, but moved..because that four year mark is approaching for them as well as for us, and their time was done, and they left. Re-enlisted or got out.

DS is a bit of a Mammas boy, but he'd be fine too..except he would HAVE to go to daycare..and he has never been before..and it does make another schedual problem.

DS2 is nursing and has to go where the milk goes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's a long time to be separated from either parent, no doubt..but the alternative is not attractive. better once and get it over with, so we can move on, I think.

Noodle

SS,

I just have to disagree with you. Unless specific boundaries are in place..how can I feel safe without being foolish?

This move is sort of shoving our recovery into high gear because there are things that we are going to have to discuss NOWISH that might have been better approached at another time.

Noodle

Noodle,

I only have 1 child and when H went overseas to work (not military but temp as a FEMA contractor), it wasn't a question of where our chlid would go. The trust issue is between you and him.

The childcare issue is a totally separate issue. The decision for childcare s/b for the children's best interest. IMHO.

Yes, his time away c/b very tempting and make any BS uneasy. I had my moments. H has been gone for 4 months. H is scheduled to come back end of this month. He hasn't even seen our home yet. But he is the one who is earning our trust back. He is the one who has been keeping in daily communication for the most part. We both call each other but he does most of the calling.

I must say that he has done quite well during this time. We even discussed his time away and how he has been handling himself. He seems just as concerned about me though I haven't given him reason t/b. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I may be totally out of line on this one (due to no military exp) but I would keep the children with the parent who has more stable presence. It is up the Xws to earn his family's trust. It c/b a learning experience for both of you.

L.

Well he's not going to be going to the bars if he is caring for the children. So that is one good thing.

You're focus is going to have to be on child care. That is where I would start finding a good child care person/center and getting DD and DS (if he stays used to it before you leave), use to it/her and finding out if it will work out.

I love letters, long hand written letters. When my dad was gone, my mom and him did tapes but of course you can do phones I suppose and computers to remain close.

You are also going to have to find child care for the baby if you are going to be looking for a job and working. That is going to be a big concern because babies can't talk.

You won't be comfortable or be able to do this without good child care.

Well I guess I've only stated the obvious.

not much help I know.

What kind of job will you be interested in?

Weaver,

What kind of work. Heh, we are moving to our hometown..which just happens to be home to about the most overeducated population imaginable. Phds driving busses, I kid you not. [censored] me it's hard to find a job there. It's a great place to live though..and to grow up..and the educational opportunities are fabulous.

When I had my son, a few months ago..the epidural man [whom I was briefly in love with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> he filled my love bank up real good] just happens to have graduated from that college. We reminisced <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So I'll take anything that pays decently and carries good insurance.

Noodle <--- not too good to get her hands dirty.

As for leaving the kids with H. He hates being alone. Hates it. Oh, for a few days, but then he starts pining . I was thinking..that although I believe that he wouldn't plan to re-enter the scene...he has also not got any support system at all here, and I would really like to come up with some ideas to help him.

My paranoia is my problem..as is my germaphobia ..but setting up a no-fail environment is really a no brainer.

We'll have to use child care no matter what. I have a lot of family though, where we are moving to. More support. Not by coincidence. I'll probably end up taking them with me. It would have been nice to at least wait for the school year to end though. Might still think about that.

Orchids probably right.

Noodle

Well I still don't know what country, but I will assume USA or Canada.

Look into the import/export business Noodle. If you can pass the Customs Broker exam you can practically write your own ticket.

There is no school for this exam, it is a 4 hour open book exam that has from a 3 to 20% pass rate through out the USA, depending on how hard customs wants to make it that year.

If you are not near a major hub (air or ocean) then you can work at a major corp as a customs expert.

Even in Canada with the new Bioterism Act on food imports you could write your own ticket at places like Kraft Canada who does major imports into the USA.

I love the business and in exports (I am in Canadian imports into the USA) you must learn the customs laws of ALL countries you import to and export from.

You have the ability to retain, so you would do well in this business.

I have friends in the business 20 years who still can't pass that dang exam.

Just a thought!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just have to disagree with you. Unless specific boundaries are in place..how can I feel safe without being foolish? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boundaries are one thing, but "feeling safe" comes from within, I truly believe. I looked for ways to feel safe in my M for 8 months in MC. Bottom line, I have to trust myself. I have to trust that if something is amiss again, I will not go into the denial again (as you aptly posted to someone else this morning, there are crocodiles in there!). My H can show me each day through his continued NC, but I don't think those actions will have a soothing effect on me until many days (years?) have passed with his consistent behavior. In the meantime, I have to trust myself.

The boundaries I spoke of earlier, for me, would be constant, consistent, careful communication. Being real with each other, looking at yourselves as being on the same team. Like in the football huddle: "Noodle, you cover starting our new life, I will handle ending the military life, ready, set, BREAK!"

I think you will do just fine. You are communicating very clearly about your fears, your worries, and you are setting up a system that will help you feel comfortable. And you have all of us here cheering you on! Yay!

Spidey

Hey, Noodle:
Just read your thread.
1. How far away is the town you are moving to from the one you are in?
2. After you find a house and get set up, will you need to find a job right away?
3. Do you have employment insurance or something like that?

Sorry, my analytical side just comes out. Facts, ma'am nothing but the facts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

THe reasom I ask is that my WH is in the Canadian Navy. ANd on my This is WAR thread, I made the decision that I would send DD to his city even before I went. I am not near as far along as you not even started in REcovery. BUt, WH HATES to be alone. WH Loves his DD. WH would NEVER do anything to harm her. He normally is a great father.

Even though I was and still am PO'ed about the Dork's decisons, I REALLY think that sending DD early is good for so many reasons. Lots that have absolutely nothing to do with his bizarre behaviour and choices. e.g He gets a taste of what it is really like to look after children 24x7. And, if he does have to go to sea, HE will have to figure out the daycare, etc. NOw DD is 12 and we do have friends and even my SIL in the area. BUt still, a good learning experience for him. And, this is also a great way for DD and F to get closer and perhaps work out some of their problems.

So, if you can start looking into daycare and the what-ifs such as if he has to go to the field at the drop of a hat, kind of thing, other than the fact you will miss them like crazy, it could be a real persona growth time for you H as well as the kids.

I get the feeling from your posts that you are well organized and a take charge person. So, maybe this is a chance for your H to do the same in the family department.

If you need to work, the logistics get far more difficult, but I believe nothing is impossible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Heck, look at me! I am fighting a one person war. (With my allies at this site along with friends and family)

Brainstorming on this board and with H could reveal some unique ways of dealing with this. Thinking outside the box! can come up with some creative plans.

I know you will come to a good decision.

ANd (a big but/however) From personal experience, if WH gets so lonely and there is nothing in place to counteract that, IMHO that is setting him up for failure. Even if H has to prove his commitment and reliability, why tempt fate?

MY WH was okay for 2 years without me and DD in the same city because we got together a couple of times a month. THen he went to sea and had no family ties around him to remind him of what it means to be married. Now he is so far gone, I met never get my H back <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> So, there you have it, My take. Not MB PC but another take on what could be at stake.

You are in my prayers.

:::MY WH was okay for 2 years without me and DD in the same city because we got together a couple of times a month. THen he went to sea and had no family ties around him to remind him of what it means to be married.

Noodle, you also said your H hates to be alone. I know my H's time alone caused him to change slowly and subtly, influenced negatively by the environement around him and being male.

After my dday a very wise friend told me that men can lose the plot about who they are and what they think want if they aren't around their 'normal' support system. e.g. family.

This is not the case for you and your H now though. You've both had one hell of a shock and obsessiveness aside, your H is unlikely to want another of those for a very long time. However I believe it would be best all round for you to leave your DD and probably your DS with your H. It's a show of faith, belief and trust in your H in a different way - the necessary separation is promoted to a joint venture where both partners are contribiting greatly to the success of the plan.

I have some reservations about your DS and his separations issues - this would certainly be a demanding time for daddy and give him plenty to occupy his mind. However it's a unique opportunity for him to bond with his son in a way that might help them both in the years ahead.

Practially speaking? There's Netmeeting on the computer. Any chance of setting that up at both ends? Phone calls are pretty ordinary, as I'm sure you know. Also you should be fairly open about expecting the financial outgo to be kept VERY transparent. If money is being keep a close eye on, it's just another obstacle to get past if temptation comes knocking.

We have four weeks apart coming up in January and I am nervous about it - mostly it's irratonal fear inherited from the infidelity trauma. The other aspect is that healing is slow and it's imperative that a couple be together for it. So I see your being apart as the a major problem for the overall health of your relatonship. However, eventually you have to test the waters.

Is there any possibility of a weekend visit or four? After our years of watching money very carefully, we have done a back flip over it, with the relationship being put first. In short my H's A has eaten into our retirement savings by thousands. We are looking to retire soon and I know I'm going to remember the thousands of dollars that went on airfares, back and forth from Asia, to both attend to the things that I used to attend to alone (plus both mothers died after d-day - more double airfares).

If this isn't possible in your case then it isn't. We were a lot further along in life than you and had the money there because of years of putting aside for a rainy day that eventually arrived.

If there is any other way ..... ???

AN

After my dday a very wise friend told me that men can lose the plot about who they are and what they think want if they aren't around their 'normal' support system. e.g. family.

I find this very interesting, as my ex travels for a living. Never listened too much to him when he said it is so hard being on the road all the time. Maybe I should have. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

With Noodle her DH might be in that excitement frame of mind because of the upcoming move and total change in life style regarding leaving the military. I know with me, when I have something to look forward to and plan for and think about I am in a very good mental place and not likely to get into trouble. Do you suppose men are the same way?

I think women are much better at being on their own than men (more self contained or something).

Weaver, I don't know your story. Do you have it somewhere I can read it. But it will take me a couple of days now to get back on the net (weekends isn't so easy for me). Btw, wish me happy birthday. As of 10 mins ago it's my b'day - which means it's my bed time.

Yes your comments about Mr Noodle. He'd have to be an outright scoundral to have another ONS or an A, when there is so much on offer for their future together. I can't see it myself. But it's Noodle's noodle that is the problem. Her feeling secure about the task at hand.

nite nite.

AN