I posted this on the In Recovery board by accident and wasn't sure how to move it so I just reposted.

Hi, I am new on the boards and this is my first post. Sorry to jump right in and unload on you all but I really need to vent and this seems like the right place to do just that. I am hoping that writing out all of this will help me see things clearer and I would also love to get some insight from others. So please bear with me.

My DH came home from work one day in the beggining of August. I had noticed that he had been distant the past week and so I was encouraging him to talk to me about what was bothering him. Things between us had been normal and I was 7 months pregnant. I never expected to hear what he said. He said that he had met another woman (he is her supervisor at work in a factory) and that he felt a strong emotional connection to her and had kissed her. I of course was devastated. My raging pregnancy hormones and dealing with my 2 yr old and 5 yr old DD's made everything even more stressful.

I really needed to talk to someone and didn't want to involve friends so I talked to his Mother. He was livid that I had done that and this caused even more tension. He was also upset that I was upset and began staying out later and later every night. (still says that he was just out with the boys those nights - but whatever - I needed him and he wasn't there)

A few weeks later was our baby shower (girl/guy) it was a very tough day for me as noone really knew of our problems and I was trying to keep things looking normal. I just didn't have the strength to get into it with anyone. Later that evening, after drinking all afternoon he began cracking jokes about how he could be elsewhere and about older attractive woman (he is 28 she is 39 I am 27). I was really angry and so I went home with out him. He showed up, drunk and obnoxious at 2 in the morning. He wouldn't shut up about how he wanted to be there and she understands him so much....you get the idea. My 2 children were sleeping as was my Mother who was down visiting. I finally told him to get in the truck (he was being verbally abusive at this point) and I dropped him off in front of her place and went home. Probably not the best idea but I am an impulsive person. He spent the next few nights sleeping on her couch (I actually believe him as he has been brutally honest about everything else.)

I went there a few days later and told him either he left there - for good - or he could take a hike. I couldn't handle the ups and downs. He came home, we tried working on things. Things were looking like they would be okay and then at 30 weeks pg I ended up going into labour and developed pnemonia. I had to be sent to a hospital an hour away from home. I was very ill and am told that they almost lost me twice. I was in labour for 103 hours and was in the ICU on morphine. It was a very scary time for me. My Mother met me there and stayed for a few days and he went there the first day. Then apparently My Mother said some things to him that offended him so he decided not to return until a week later. I feel like he abandoned me when I needed him the most.

During the time I was away a friend of mine had our 2 other children and he stayed with her. I returned home and he left. He was all over the place - his aunts - his Moms - her place - he left me without a vehicle and no money. Then when I would not switch the utilities over right when he demanded (I didn't have deposit money - asked him to wait a week) he shut off the phone. Leaving me at home, in a high risk pregnancy with two children and no vehicle.

He came to the conclusion that I had *made up* being sick to get attention. He would say that he loved me but then would say he also cared about her. He admitted that at that point he was sleeping with her. He felt like he wasn't having an affair (and he still stands by this) because he was honest about it all and we were seperating (which was all because of the *emotional affair*)
Anyways, you get the point. Things were bad. I was livid and ready to file for divorce.

Then I had our Son. Of course emotions ran high. He had a huge emotional breakdown. He was sorry, wanted things to work, loved me, couldn't believe what he had done, the whole works. We stayed seperated for a few more weeks, just talking and going out to dinner and then he returned home.

Now it is 2 months later. Things were starting to go really great. But now he still says he loves/wants me but is not willing to give up her as a friend - his best friend next to me he says. He goes out for wings after work, or to a friends house and she is there. And he thinks that I should be okay with it all because he comes home to me. He really thinks that I am being unreasonable for expecting him to give up his friendship with her.

He told me a few days ago that she is having a get together after the last day of work before Holidays and she invited him. He said that he wanted to go as there would be people from work there but that he wouldn't stay long. I told him that I would meet him after work and we could go together if it was that important. Of course he doesn't want that (which I suspected or I wouldn't have said it). Then he mentioned that she also invited him to a New Years party which he said No to. I feel like she is trying to cause tension with us by creating situations that she knows will cause conflict. He of course doesn't see it that way. The last straw was when he mentioned that he was going to buy her a gift! I am so fed up with all of this. I can't stand her and I am at my wits end with him.

I told him that if he went to her place or if he bought her anything that he may as well pack his bags again. I am not playing these games. I am tired of wasting my time, energy and emotion on this crap. Honestly, I don't think that he thinks that I will really leave him over it. But I will. I will even leave the house if it becomes an issue. I told him that he will have until after Christmas and then we will go our seperate ways - if he can't give her up. My only reason for waiting is for our kids who have been through enough this year.

He just doesn't get it though, he really thinks that it will all be fine, because he is happy. Last night he went out after work (he works 3 - 11) admitted that he went out for wings with a group of people and sat with HER. He says that they parted ways and he went out with another guy. He came home at 3 am. This morning some of my family came to visit and for lunch. He didn't even get up until it was time to leave for work. I am so furious. and fed up.

The hardest part for me is that I love him so much. even though he is acting like a jerk. He claims to love me just as much. We have fun together, we have lots in common. He says he wants us to work. This is so hard. My heart and my head are telling me two totally different things and I just can't decide which one I should be listening to.

This just all feels like it would be so much easier to call it quits and go our seperate ways. We have been together since we were 16 and maybe our time has just come to an end. I don't know.

Anyways if you made it this far - thanks for listening - it feels good to get it all out.

Hey Jenn!

Welcome! I am sorry that your situation is so difficult. You'll get a lot of good avice here.

My two cents: this is an inappropriate relationship. Friends or more (and I suspect they are much more) - it doesn't really matter. You've told him that it upsets you that he is so close to her and that he spends so much time with her. He obviously doesn't care.

You can't control him. But you can let him know clearly what your standards are. It sounds like you have done many of the right things already.

I think you need to take the next step and break this affair - because that's what it is. You may need to expose it.

This woman is single, I take it? Can you expose the relationship to his family or your family? Are their other people around who have influence that you can expose it to?

The experience of many people here suggests that you won't make much progress in your marriage until she is out of the picture. He needs as a first step to commit to no contact.

Thanks for your reply Andrew.

As far as exposure goes - everyone knows. They work together and everyone there knows as well as all of our family and friends. I can't really say that it did any good - in fact at one point (a few months ago) he said that it would be easier just to be with her as everyone knew about it and were learning to accept it anyways. He said that when we were apart he met her family and friends.

Jenn,

Have you read up on Plan A and Plan B?

Andrew,

I skimmed over them but I have not had a chance to really read them. I plan to do so tonight after I put the kids to bed.

Hi Jenn! I am so sorry you are hurting so much and in this situation...You have a lot to deal with right now...

First of all, you need to decide if you want to stay with him or not...you cannot be kicking him out of the house every few days...I know, I did this and it is devestating to the kids...Secondly, read up on Plan A and Plan B...It is recommended to do a strong Plan A before attempting Plan B...Plan A will ususally do the trick if done correctly, but not always. YOu have to be the strong one now. Your H is incapable of making decisions and being the strong one.

You need to set some boundries and some rules. No more going out after work...PERIOD...no going to parties, without you there with him...PERIOD. It sounds to me as if they are still sleeping together. He is in an A, no matter what he says...just because he is brutally honest, which is very cruel to you btw, does not make it right! ARGH!

All WS say the same things pretty much...It is like text book. I love you, but not in love with you...I care about you, but also care about OP...etc, etc...

I suggest you read up on Plan A and start it immediately. It is tough, but you can do it...

Jenn,

Again, I'm no expert..and I'm relatively new at this myself.

But..I do think that you are going to be spinning your wheels until your H gives up the OW.

One thing for you to consider: are you meeting his emotional needs? Is he getting something from this OW that he's not getting - or that he thinks he's not getting -from you?

Here is a link to the MB Emotional needs questionaire. Ask your H if he will do it with you. If he is honest, it will give you a lot of good insight.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

Also, you mentioned yoru H drinking. Does he have a drinking problem? How is the baby?

Also, one more thing...He must give up that OW, no friends with her, etc...He then must write a NC letter and possible quit his job or change shifts. But you need to do a strong Plan A for the time being. Read, read and read some more...the more you read the more you will learn...also buy "Surviving an Affair" it is an easy read, one nighter, that will help you tremendously.

Andrew - I am not sure if I am meeting his emotional needs. He says that I am but I have my doubts. He says that she was simply an escape from all the stresses of everyday life. I will look up that questionaire and ask him to fill it out.

As for drinking - During our seperation he was drinking alot. He still has a beer once in a while but stopped drinking the way that he was.

And the Baby is wonderful - he brings SO much joy to my life - as do my other 2 children. I think that he is the reason that I have been able to keep it together. Thanks for asking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Moving Forward - Thanks for all the great advice/insight.
I agree with not having him move in and out that was to hard on everyone and I do not want to put the kids through that anymore. As far as leaving his job - I brought that up to him but he doesn't want to as he has been there for 9 years, and has many perks - including 6 weeks vacation time a year - and doesn't want to start back over from scratch elsewhere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jenn_27:
<strong>
Moving Forward - Thanks for all the great advice/insight.
I agree with not having him move in and out that was to hard on everyone and I do not want to put the kids through that anymore. As far as leaving his job - I brought that up to him but he doesn't want to as he has been there for 9 years, and has many perks - including 6 weeks vacation time a year - and doesn't want to start back over from scratch elsewhere. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi jenn...i am sure the oldtimers will be here soon....I have been trying to get my WH to quit his job for 10 months! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> unfortunately it is part of the consequenses the WS must face when they have an affair. Stay on this site and you will learn soooo much!

Of course your WH doesn't want to quit his job...his OW works there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...also, he is willing to give up his FAMILY and start over, but not his job..I hear this on a daily basis from my WH...Jenn, just keep reading here, you will get so much info...also, just keep on posting away, and a little tip...dont just keep this thread going so we dont get too confused as to what is going on with you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well I have had a chance to read the Plan A/Plan B. I have already told him that he needs to break off all contact with her, or I can not be with him. He stands firm that now they are only friends and he will not give up that friendship. Do I jump right to Plan B???

Jenn-

First off, congratulations on your baby boy. I have two girls and a boy as well and boys are so different than girls. It's almost like never having had a baby again, you see so many new firsts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I understand the hurt, anger, and confusion, but don't make any decisions for at least another few months. Especially with your just having had a new baby, your emotions are running wild. I got really angry for you when I read the stuff about you in the hospital and your H's attitude, but he was already heavy in the A. If it wasn't physical by then, it was emotional enough already to have him hooked.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Things were starting to go really great. But now he still says he loves/wants me but is not willing to give up her as a friend - his best friend next to me he says. He goes out for wings after work, or to a friends house and she is there. And he thinks that I should be okay with it all because he comes home to me. He really thinks that I am being unreasonable for expecting him to give up his friendship with her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're not being unreasonable. You are a woman who wants her M to work so you're asking him to do the necessary work. Let me ask you something though. When you talk about how he needs to give up OW, do you demand or do you respectfully ask? One thing that many BS do is demand that WS give up OP. We cannot control WS and we cannot force them to give up OP. You e can, however, tell your H, in a non LBing way of course, that his continued contact with OW really hurts you and your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The one we started with was His Needs, Her Needs. Then Not Just Friends. Then Torn Asunder. They all have great info in them. Now I am reading Forgive For Good. Just got it yesterday. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of the books mentions by naivegirl, I think the best one for you to look at is Not Just Friends. First you read it, then have your H read it. Don't force it on him, just let him know that since he's agreed to work on your M, this book was recommended. But before picking up that book, I'd read Surviving An Affair by Dr. Harley. I think your H should read that one first as well. It has a lot of useful information in it that spans a variety of different types of situations.

Your right to say that a friendship between your H and OW should be a deal breaker, but I don't know that you are far enough along in Recovery to make that ultimatum quite yet. In fact, your H's A hasn't ended. What SAA points out so well is that Recovery and Rebuilding your M cannot really begin until contact has ended entirely. What your H probably does not understand is that everytime he sees OW, he puts himself (and by default, your M) back to ground zero. The longer this goes on the more difficult it's going to be to rebuild.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He came to the conclusion that I had *made up* being sick to get attention. He would say that he loved me but then would say he also cared about her </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is almost funny. My H asked me almost the exact same thing. For myself, I had to go to the doctor's office to be monitored (for about 2 hours) because I couldn't feel my baby moving. Luckily everything was perfectly fine. (I didn't know there was an A going on at the time. I wonder if that was him, or OW, talking??)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well I have had a chance to read the Plan A/Plan B. I have already told him that he needs to break off all contact with her, or I can not be with him. He stands firm that now they are only friends and he will not give up that friendship. Do I jump right to Plan B??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, you said you've read up on Plan A. Did you really really read it? The purpose of Plan A is to pull your WS out of the A so you can begin rebuilding. After a set amount of time (Harley recommends six months), you move from plan A to plan B. For plan B to be effective, plan A has to be really, really good. You have to fix in your H's head how wonderful it would be to stay married to you so that he'll want to leave OW. Remember, despite his protestations to the contrary, your H's A is still ongoing. Oh, and your H's thinking that this isn't an A simply because he's always been upfront with you about it is simply ludicrous. It's 100% fog talk. Your H and OW CANNOT just be friends. He doesn't get that yet, because he doesn't want to give up whatever it is she is doing for him that you are not.

You've been at this for a very short time and, under the circumstances, couldn't devote all of your time to plan A or him. You've been in and out of the hospital twice (including your delivery), you're dealing with having a newborn in the house again, and I'm guessing that you've only recently been "released" have SF again? If you didn't ask your H, would you be confident that you're meeting his EN's as they need to be met? You said your H told you you're meeting his needs, but, under these circumstances, I wonder how well you're meeting them. This is not meant as an insult, by any means. I remember what it's like to have a new baby in the house, and with all of this other added stress, I just wonder how it's possible that you're meeting his top EN's the way they need to be met.

You've said you're going to try and get your H to do the questionnaire, right? If he doesn't have recreational companionship as one of his Top EN's I don't think he's too in tune with himself. From all that you've said, and from the amount of time he wants to go out, I'd say that it's in the top 3, probaby number 1 (although I think most guys will say SF simply because it's expected). So...if you're home with the kids and he spends his time out with either his work buddies, OW, or some other group of people, how are you meeting that EN? The problem with this is that OW is filling this need for him so he doesn't realize he's even missing it. He's not missing it, but he is missing it from you. Does that make sense?

Floppy;

Thank you so much for your advice! You are absolutely right I should not be making any major decisons right now - I think somewhere in the back of my head I knew that I just had to be reminded.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let me ask you something though. When you talk about how he needs to give up OW, do you demand or do you respectfully ask?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly - I was calm and respectful about it but have started to get very upset about it and more demanding. I will take a step back on that one. (isn't that so hard though!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Okay, you said you've read up on Plan A. Did you really really read it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmm maybe I haven't read it - I came across an article that talked briefly about each plan - I thought that this was it but maybe there is a more detailed description somewhere on the board. I will have to do more searching for that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just wonder how it's possible that you're meeting his top EN's the way they need to be met.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't worry I didn't take this as an insult at all. I had the same concerns. Between a new baby and dealing with our 2 other childrens emotional needs I have been having a hard time dealing with my own and his. Perhaps this is part of why I am feeling so frustrated right now. I am so tired - exhausted really - and I just wish that he would tell me what he needs - it would make things so much easier for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So...if you're home with the kids and he spends his time out with either his work buddies, OW, or some other group of people, how are you meeting that EN? The problem with this is that OW is filling this need for him so he doesn't realize he's even missing it. He's not missing it, but he is missing it from you. Does that make sense?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have been making it a priority to go out at least once a week, without children together. Yet that still isn't enough for him. He is out again right now as a matter of fact. For all I know she could be there and quite frankly I am just to tired of this all to worry and stress about it. It just feels easier to give up.

I guess that I am just scared that I am going to be putting my heart out there again in an effort to give this an honest, fair chance and he is going to tear it apart again. I was in such a deep depression for a while when I found out and I honestly felt like I was living in hell. I am not sure that I can risk being hurt that deeply again. I love him so much but I just am reluctant to see how there is really a chance for us to work this out if he will not give her up %100. He of course says that I am the one he comes home to every night, if he didn't want to be here he wouldn't, he is just friends with her, he loves me and is in love with me, just was to confused to see clearly.

It is so nice to have somewhere to get this all of my chest. I am so glad that I found this board.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Floppy, fka Feeling Alone:
<strong> Jenn-

One thing that many BS do is demand that WS give up OP. We cannot control WS and we cannot force them to give up OP. You e can, however, tell your H, in a non LBing way of course, that his continued contact with OW really hurts you and your M.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />