all right all.. my WW called me today and said she wanted to talk. She said she had time to figure out what was wrong. She acting nice toward me, and when I saw her today, she even commented on how I look. I'm going to IC in a few hours.. and when I come home we are suppose to talk. I don't know if what she has to say is good or bad.. I need advice on how I should act either way.
Right now I'm very nervous/exicited that things are progressing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
(which way i don't know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )
any comments would be appreciated!!!!!!!

f4mw,

Hey, chill a bit. It is a 'talk' not a NC letter....at least not yet..... So go to your IC, do your Ic stuff.....breathe, remind yourself that she needs to prove to you, she is willing to earn your trust back.....then meet with her to hear her out.

Don't be anxious to share the what to do list..... just listen to what she has to say. If it isn't what you need to feel safe, thank her for her time and leave.

Don't spill all your feelings out...... you may shed a tear or two so carry a few tissues. Maybe a nice hanky. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just go and listen. If you start to feel anxious, take a few deep cleansing breathes and don't forget to EXHALE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Fighting - I suspect you know what you need to do already, Orchid hit it right on.

Repeat this phrase... "I'm listening." as often as necessary.

Listen much speak little.

Talk is worth nothing without deeds to back it up.

Pep

Thanks everyone! now to just get my mind on something else until after the IC.
thanks again orchid.. your replies are always reassuring to me.

Sheesh, hate to meake you feel down, but everytime my WH wanted to "talk", all he wanted to do was justify is awful behavior. Hopefully it will be different for you.

update for all those watching from home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
The fog is clearing for WW. She told me tonight she realized what she had done and why she feels guilty.
WW: I realized that I've had this chip on my shoulder and thought I could do whatever I wanted to make me happy, despite anyone elses feelings. You fulfilled my needs and I soaked it up like a sponge, and then when you weren't able to fullfill my needs I went somewhere else.
I realized that you weren't fulling my EN's and I know if I went to the OM there will be EN's that he won't fulfill. I'm making a decision this weekend of wether or not I'm staying, and if not I'll leave and I'll tell everyone what happened and suffer the consequences.
So plan A working?!?!?!
suggestions on how I can sway my WW to become an xWW and stay in the marriage?
any thought would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hi fighting,

Easy there now ok? Talk is cheap.

I know you are so ready to have this recovery come around but you must take heed and go s-l-o-w.Watch what she does not so much what she says.Many of us have heard words before that lead us to believe that things were going to be alright but did not end up being so.I am not saying this to depress you, just don't go flying off in that balloon just yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Remember what it is that needs to happen for a recovery:

-NC letter
-counseling(check)
-EN questionnaire
-all passwords and e-mails accounted for
-maintain your stability and boundaries
-complete open and honesty

That's to start.Also remember,this is HER journey of discovery about who she is and what she has done.It's great to see a WS start to come to the realization of what they have done but there is SO Much more that you both will undergo.Lots of pain and disappointment but also some joy.They don't say recovery is the hardest part for nothing.Keep that in mind.And good luck.

Stay the course.

O

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Fighting 4 my wife: update <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
The fog is clearing for WW. She told me tonight she realized what she had done and why she feels guilty. .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: This GOOD!! This is progress. But don't read too much into it as OG says, 'talk is cheap.' It is good you listened. Now sit back and watch the actions. As you read on, you will find I have basically dissected her convo.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Fighting 4 my wife's WS: I realized that I've had this chip on my shoulder and thought I could do whatever I wanted to make me happy, despite anyone elses feelings.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Good revelation. Do not minimize this comment by saying anything like: 'oh you aren't like that'. She needs to say it in order to start healing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Fighting 4 my wife's WS: You fulfilled my needs and I soaked it up like a sponge, and then when you weren't able to fullfill my needs I went somewhere else..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Another positive comment. Again she does need to know she owns this issue. This should bring relief to you. Again, don't watter it down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Fighting 4 my wife's WS: I realized that you weren't fulling my EN's and I know if I went to the OM there will be EN's that he won't fulfill..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: She is pitting you against the OM. Don't fall for this tactic. Very subtle. re: when does a W know about an OM? After she has commmited adultery with him in her heart. Also, she has known all along the OM can't fill her needs. Hence the struggle to keep you on the side....at a distance but on the side. The at a distance part is when she gets you all riled up with her lies and decietful ways.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Fighting 4 my wife's WS: I'm making a decision this weekend of wether or not I'm staying, and if not I'll leave and I'll tell everyone what happened and suffer the consequences..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: She is testing the waters. Trying to tempt you into waiting and keep all this stuff within her control. Now this is where I think you need to get a plan together and fast.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Fighting 4 my wife:
So plan A working?!?!?!
suggestions on how I can sway my WW to become an xWW and stay in the marriage?
any thought would be greatly appreciated!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Plan A is working. It got her to this point. Remember turning her from an WS to an Xws is her doing, not yours. Plan A is about you working on you and Plan B is about protecting you and your family.

I suggest a short response to do the following:

1. Thank her for her honest convo. Let her know you understand it must have been difficult for her. That this was a big step and you are proud of her for admitting to her true status. Don't get mushy here, just loving yet firm.

2. Then let her know that after she makes her decision, you will need to think about it and make yours. You can let her know about item 2 either before the weekend or after she lets you know her decision.

In the past, these kinds of sitches haven't matured into a good recovery because in most cases the BS breaks down and gives the WS full spousal status rights. It is too much for the WS to handle and they go back into their A shell.

Think about it. Work on your plan B. OctoberGirl has outlined a good plan. This is NOT the time t/b mushy. Your taker will kick in soon and want results ASAP but that is not a safe way to work on recovery. You can't heal it before it's time.

Here is where a clear mind, a calm heart and lots of patience will come in. Remember she needs to restore your trust in her. Not the other way around.

IMHO, her convo was ok. Not great, just ok....she is still trying to keep her options open so be careful. I am sure you don't want t/b an option. If I am wrong, your being cautious is not enough to end the M. If she threatens to do so, then you need to realize you were being played as a pawn and moving forward will be easier.

This is a delicate time for both of you right now, more her than you. Be catious.

take care,
L.

Saturday night a mutual friend of ours is throwing a party. My stepson is going up to stay with his grandparents since school is out and the both of us still have to work. I asked if she is going and she said maybe, I have to take care of something that night.
(i know that means the OM!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )
I asked her, do I want to persue this conversation further or leave it alone for now.
WW response: leave it alone for now.
(confirmation meeting with the OM.)
should I persue what exactly she's doing? or wait until it is done and then question the WW?

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Fighting 4 my wife ]</small>

Fighting 4 my wife,

Draft plan B letter ... ready give it to her. Why ? Fighting 4 M means never tolerate A.

Don't press on WW ... she will do what she wants to do. Make sure you find out the fact.

JMVHO -rh-

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Thanks.. but i'm still kind of unclear..
Do I ask WW was "she has to take care of"?

Don't ask her anything. Even if you did, you'd probably get a line of babble and what can you do with that? Just get more upset.

Have you drafted your plan B letter? If not, work on it. Have you identified your boundaries? If not, do so.

We can keep you busy enough so that you won't spend as much time worrying or wondering about the WS. Remember plans A & B are about helping you survive. Can't help a WS. Not yet.....

L.

I haven't drafted a plan B letter yet because WW said if she decides this weekend she wants a divorce she will pack her and my stepson up and leave.

btw I did make the mistake of checking our joint email account and saw she wrote an old co-worker and told him that she is "probably getting a divorce" but doesn't know what's going on.
of course that made me extremely upset.
I keep thinking I can handle her leaving.. but when ever I get a hint of her deciding to do so.. i go crazy!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

thanks again for the calming advice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fighting 4 my wife:
<strong> I haven't drafted a plan B letter yet because WW said if she decides this weekend she wants a divorce she will pack her and my stepson up and leave.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What r u waiting for ? ... if she leave you need to give her that plan B letter ... if she stays and wanna to continue A, you need to give her plan B letter and show the door.

-rh-

it's hard for me to kick her out of my life... and I'm kind of "foggy" on what the Plan B letter should say and if I'm able to have ANY contact with her (because of bills/ etc.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fighting 4 my wife:
<strong> it's hard for me to kick her out of my life... and I'm kind of "foggy" on what the Plan B letter should say and if I'm able to have ANY contact with her (because of bills/ etc.) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't kick her ... you put fence (boundry) in your M. Read up on plan B. This is why you need time to work on draft plan B and logistic of plan B.

-rh-

F4mw

Dr Harley states Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my ( Dr Harleys) plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

This is the example Plan B letter from Dr. Harley’s book, Surviving an Affair (SAA).

I hope it can help

My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.
I am willing to avoid the mistakes I’ve made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg for once and for all.
Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other’s emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.
With my love,
Jon


Hoping this can help F4MW & that its ok to say a prayer for you & ww.