Why oh why do we always seem to fall into the trap of believing a WS is it just human nature to cling to that last vistual of hope.
Because let me tell you I firmly beleive now that is that they only know how to lie they have forgotten how to tell the truth.
Venting finally realising that cake eaters fence sitters need to be torpedio ( spelling????)
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Yep.

You can't believe a cake eater, that is for sure. I would stay in a relationship only if the affair was ended on DD, if not I would go right into Plan B.

I know I cannot live in fear, nor can I live in an environment that is not safe for me, ie lying.

Of course I try to live by Plan A every day now that I know what LB's and DJ's are, so I can go into Plan B immediately.

(now I am in Plan broke up, just so you know)

How has your Plan A been? and long long have you been at it?

I have been doing Plan A for about 10 weeks but last week just kind of lost it left for a night WH did not try to contact me told kids that Mum was not happy and that it was his fault.
This week told him to go or stay make a decision one minute he said he was going would go to parents house bottom line he never even took one piece of clothes out of the wardrobe. Heard him telling friend on the phone that this situation is so stressful "dah" that me and OW are both desperatly pushing him.
He is lying all around he is like a rat caught in a trap.
Question do I sit and wait or push him out.

Only you know if you are capable of Plan B. Can you stick to it and not waffle? Can you go as dark as is necessary for Plan B to be succesful?

If things are starting to turn bad then I think it is time to get your Plan B letter ready, post it here and in the mean time go back to doing a stellar Plan A for a few days until you have all ducks in a row.

that me and OW are both desperatly pushing him.

This is bad. He should feel that OW is doing the pushing, not you. Stop pushing!!!!!!!

Follow the Plans!

Yes I thought that statement was bad for me as well and I should do stellar Plan A but I dont know if I have the energy any more.
I know he is letting her believe he is going to leave me but he is also telling me that his A will just fizzel out.
We all work together I want her out he says he has ruined her life so has to help her set up new business he is giving her money. She just wont leave wants to be near him at any cost.
I feel that if he can really do that to me then he is really just playing me for a fool.
I now think he really wants to leave but the professional and family fall out are to much for him to bear!!!!
He does not want to fight for me so I am begining to think why am I fighting for him.
Ok Ok Ok feeling low sorry for dribble

Secure your finances and go to Plan B.

It is time.

Did you expose this affair to the appropriate people?

right
Mind over matter
Will really try to no I will do a stellar Plan A
I will I will I will I will I will I will I will
What is it hat the Budist say about patience wait and it will come.

weaver sorry cross over post
I have secured a lot of the finances as much as I can.
I was trying to go to Plan B when I told him to go the other day and he would not pack up I told him to go sort it out with her and stop being a ******* prat. But I dont think he did.
I think that there is mor of the time that I am ready for Plan B that ther was.
No exposure culture difference exposure would definitely enable A.
But maybe now it is the time
Okay it looks that I dont know what the hell to do but I really do think its time for Plan B of sorts.
He owns business she works there both doctors I run it financally.

Dear Dyinghere,

I'm sorry you are in this bad place right now.
It might help to see your H as an addict right now - not thinking straight, hurting the people he loves, doing anything to get his "fix", just like anyone addicted to alcohol/drugs/gambling does.

There is a time to plan A, to see if there are changes, if there is a willingness to "detox". I can only imagine how painful this must be for you. I feel like Weaver - continued contact would be an absolute dealbreaker for me, I would tell H to go an live with wonderful OW and let her "wash his socks and enjoy his snoring" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

But if you can see H as an addict who is desperately trying to get his fix AND do the right thing at the same time (doesn't work, does it?) and you have hope that he'll be able to get rid of his addiction... patience is a good thing, plan A, being there for him.

If nothing changes, if there is nothing that will give you reasonable hope for change, it's up to you how long you'll wait to the next step. Dr. Harley recommends approx. 3 months for plan A towards a WH, if I'm not mistaking. Keeping plan A going for much longer might kill your love for your H and make him think he can get away with being a cake-eater without destroying your love for him.

HE will have to decide he'll detox. NC is like the life-long "NC" any addict will have to maintain with his drug. WH might think "one cigarette" or "one drink" or "one phone call to OW" won't hurt... wrong. He will have to stick to it.

Thankd Brownhair

Have been here since beg october know your story you are doing great keep up thwe good work.
Yes I do believe that my feelings for him have started to shift.
Really in my heart of hearts I know I have to tell him to leave.
All this cover up is draining me completly its got to the point where I just cant do anything I am thinking about the situation the whole time and I know that in order for me to move forward I must think of myself and kids only.
You are right he is getting his fix and will continue to do so as he cannot make a decision he is waiting for someone else to do it. Well its time.

dyinghere, I think perhaps your WH and mine might be clones! Fencesitters and cakeeaters. Amazing how thick the fog is in certain places. What do you want? Read some of the things people have written me. They have given me some words of strength. Phrases like "There isn't room for 3 people in our marriage" "I miss my husband, the kids miss their father. But we don't want OW boyfriend in our lives." They are helpful.

I think you don't need to push. You just need to be the stone wall. Figure out your boundaries and when they are crossed, shut him down. Firm and consistent. It's hard. I'm struggling with it too.

How are your kids doing?

Post deleted by dyinghere

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brownhair:
<strong> - continued contact would be an absolute dealbreaker for me, I would tell H to go an live with wonderful OW and let her "wash his socks and enjoy his snoring" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

But if you can see H as an addict who is desperately trying to get his fix AND do the right thing at the same time (doesn't work, does it?) and you have hope that he'll be able to get rid of his addiction... patience is a good thing, plan A, being there for him.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting thoughts I must say. NOW, in one paragraph, you say that continued contact (aka continued drug use) would be a deal breaker for you, but then you say...well if you hope he can get rid of his addiction, etc..you should PLan A.

NOW, it is my sincere opinion, that if you are going to use the "addicted to drugs" thoery in rationliazing your husbands actions, then how can you drop him if he tries and gets another fix. Fighting alcohol and drug abuse is a very very trying and difficult endeavor for the addict and ofcourse his family. I don't ever think it is realisitc to think that an addict is going to "be clean" after one attempt. It usually takes years and tons of hardhip (the so called "rock bottom" state) to get full recovery. How are you gonna use the "my husband is addcited theory" and then dump him after one fix.....? NOw, let me be clear here, I DO NOT suscribe to this "addicted to drugs" theory, hence that is why I am questioning your thinking here. Perhaps I am just not able to comprehend this, in that case, please teach me.

LM

NOw, let me be clear here, I DO NOT suscribe to this "addicted to drugs" theory, hence that is why I am questioning your thinking here. Perhaps I am just not able to comprehend this, in that case, please teach me.

Finally! Thank you!!!

As someone who grew up with, took care of, and watched my dad die of alcoholism I have been waiting for a long time on this board to see someone say this.

It makes no sense to liken an infidel to an alcoholic, and it does the alcoholic and their families who are trying to overcome this horrible, genetic, complex primary physilogical desease a disservice to compare both the withdrawal and recovery of to an affairee.

Of course when I said it no one believed me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thank you!

Hello Lemonman,
so we meet again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Hello Dyinghere,
sorry to threadjack, but the following might also clarify my previous statements on your thread. I sure hope you're ok my dear.

Lemonman,
I was only speaking for myself when I said continued contact would be a deal breaker for me. After the things that have happened to me in my life, with the present H and the previous one, there is no room in my heart for the pain of continued contact. If he would love OW so much.. I'd set him free. Plain and simple. But that's my story, not someone else's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>It makes no sense to liken an infidel to an alcoholic, and it does the alcoholic and their families who are trying to overcome this horrible, genetic, complex primary physilogical desease a disservice to compare both the withdrawal and recovery of to an affairee.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry if I offended you, Weaver, that surely wasn't my intention.

After all I have learned about A's I did find that there are some very similar things to other addictions. It also helps the bewildered partner to understand why the WS is acting so strangely, so out of character. After talking to several people in a A and still in the fog I did get the impression they were drugged - very weird. They weren't the same person I knew before. After coming out of the fog (if they ever do..) they couldn't even believe the things they said before.

That is why I make the comparison sometimes. I do understand you're saying it's NOTHING like alcoholism that if you consider the fact that someone who enters in a A has a lot more to say about this, has a choice, where an alcoholic doesn't, is that correct?

I never meant to say that someone in an A is "discharged" of any responsibility because the "poor things" are suffering from an addiction.

No offense to you Brownhair, I know what you meant. And agree about the NC first, 100%.

Dying -

I see some backsliding here. What do you mean wait until he crosses a boundary to go into Plan B, the boundary has already been crossed, he is having an affair, and you have been a party to it for the last three months since DDay.

Formulate the details of your Plan B, post the letter here and in the meantime be a very loving person to your WH.

sorry, double post

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

sorry double post

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

Brownhair, you did not offend me in the least.
An alcoholic and an affairee are just not comparable.

And no the alcoholic does not have a choice it is a genetic physiological disease he is born with. Now I am talking a true alcoholic, not someone who behaves badly and blames it on the alcohol or who has gotten in the habit of drinking to avoid their life.

And I will never as long as I live, given the people I have know who have ended their life because of not being able to quit drinking, feel their addiction is anywhere remotely the same as the pull the affairee feels for their affair partner.