I have a question...

How do all of you with kids handle the WS lying to your child? My WH lies to my son about stupid things. It's driving me crazy! I don't like ANYONE treating my son that way. When I know that my WH has lied to my son I tell my son that it isn't true. Should I not do this? If it's silly things I don't say anything but if it's something big I tell me son the truth. How else can I handle this or am I doing ok?

Hi Tr,

You sound pretty upset.Has something just happened again?

In my case,I usually tell my DD's the truth and that if anything comes up that is really apparent that my WH lied about,I will tell them that it was not approriate that WH did not tell the truth.I tell them not telling the truth hurts everyone involved.That in order for me to be able to trust someone,it has to be earned and how people do that is by being honest.

I always tell my children that I will always want to know the truth and that it is much worse to lie about something than to be honest.Like if they broke something and chose not to tell me for fear of reprisal.I tell them that if they want to be trusted then they have to be trustworthy.It's a responsibility.

TR,I think the best thing you can do as a parent is to show a good example.Like in any other area.People all over the world lie,some just a little(white lie) and some vey badly and often but in either case it's wrong and demeans people.Many know the dangers of smoking yet people still smoke and kids still get interested from peer pressure.Show your kids that you don't have to make those choices and that you're ok because of that and even smart not to follow in the foot steps of people who do these things.That they have a brain and can use it to be true to themselves.

Keep those lines of communication open,listen and hear your son.This way you develop a special bond.My Girls know now when my WH isn't being honest or fails on his promises.They roll their eyes and get disappointed but we talk about it and what WH could have done better or what would be a more appropriate choice.

O

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

First off, what is he lying about? And why is it necessary to tell your son that his father is lying?

One of the hardest things I did when FWH and I were separated, was not to use my kids in ANY way to undermine or try and control my H. I didn't think my H should be attending Scout meetings when the OW was there. I thought that was very unhealthy for my boys to see. BUT, taking them out of that Troop would have been hard on them, with so many other things in their lives changing at the same time.

It was very hard for me to sort through what is TRULY best for the kids, vs. what is best for me. I'm not saying you are doing that. I'm saying it is VERY easy to do, and the parents who can totally leave their kids out of their troubled relationship with the other parent, have my AWE. I am in AWE of them. Because I know firsthand how tricky that whole business is.

Spidey

TreeReich,

First, it sounds like you handled the program last night with a lot of class! Good job!

Your H needs to understand that he is playing a dangerous game here. He has become the "absent" father. And...he risks losing his son because of it. He's also making it harder for your H to grow up to be the kind of man that you - and your H, I'm sure, if he were honest - wants him to be.

There is a book that I think might give you a lot of insight into this. It's called "Iron John." The author is Robert Bly.

Basically, Bly argues that when men are distant from their fathers, they distance themselves from the positive aspects of their masculinity. Additionally, men who have distant fathers often come to view masculinity - and their father's - through the eyes of their mother. And because they have no one to initiate them into manhood, they stuggle.

It's a book that has given me a lot of insight into the path that leads boys to real manhood.

Hi TR

I am so sorry your son is being lied to. My WH does the same thing with my D's. Even more frustrating is that usually it is about something there is no reason to lie about. Does this have anything to do with your son's program last night? I know he must have been very disappointed to not see your WH. What is even sadder is that even though your WH was there, if your son didn't see him, he won't believe WH was there. My children have gotten to the point that they know when my WH is lying and they don't believe anything he says. Oldest D will not talk to WH. I hope your son's relationship with your WH doesn't come to that point.

Unfortunately the only advice I can give you is to be honest with him yourself, even when you know it's going to hurt, because then your son has no reason to ever doubt you. I tried to cover for my WH to protect my D's feelings and it has backfired because now she doesn't trust me either.

Tree - It's sickening, isn't it?

You didn't mention what he lies about, but it's safe to assume all WSs lie to their children. After all, they're lying to themselves aren't they?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TreeReich:
<strong>How do all of you with kids handle the WS lying to your child?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's how I'm handling it: Being an example of honesty and integrity.

Will this counteract the lies as they happen? No. Will this "prove" in real time that the WS is lying? No. Will the child instantly know that the BS is being honest and the WS is twisting reality? No.

But in time, I believe my son will soak up all that has happened and benefit from the drip, drip, drip of honesty and integrity I am practicing.

I believe it's futile and damaging to attempt to counter all the lies being told my son. I can't even know them all. Eventually, he'll figure it all out on his own.

WAT says:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You didn't mention what he lies about, but it's safe to assume all WSs lie to their children. After all, they're lying to themselves aren't they?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How True. My STBX lies to my kids right to thier faces, even when they know the truth, and my STBX knows they know.

She says there is no OM, but they see her on the computer with him, she says she does not call OM on phone but they see his phone # and hear her talking to him.

The sadness I feel is that a child has to grow up, knowing thier parent is a liar, and a cheater. The pain my STBX has caused me must pale in the comparison to the pain she caused my children.

To know your parent is carryijng on an affair, lies to you, and punishes you for not believing thier lies. I pray for my kids everyday. What will my son think later in life, how will he take this experience and relate it to his own relationships. What will my DD think of her Wayward Mother when she prepares to marry. I can only believe DISGUST.

Tree, I'll be around. Purrs to you. Have a great Christmas.

Hey everybody. Thanks for the advice!
My WH lied to my son last night. After the program I looked for my WH so that my son could go over and say hello and talk to him for a bit before we went home. I looked around and he was gone. When we got home my son wanted to call his dad and ask him why he didn't talk to him after the program. My WH said "Oh, I was there you just didn't see me." I know that's a lie because I looked for him and his car was gone. My son knew he was lying. It just made me so mad! Ya know....I can't stand my WH but I would never keep my son from him and I was willing to let my son see his father after the program. I would have just waited outside for him. He's also lied about other things lately. My son flat out asked him if he had a girlfriend......my WH said "no"...I just left because I wasn't happy. I know my son is young and I don't think he needs to know everything that is going on but I worry that when this OW comes out of the woodwork after our divorce ......what will my son think about his father? He asked him to tell him the truth and he lied once again. I don't know....I JUST HATE THIS!!!! All I know is that I'm very honest with my son and would never hurt him in any way.

TJ....Hope you have a great Christmas! Puuurrrr!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TreeReich:

My WH lied to my son last night.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's my half-baked suggestion/idea.

You rent that Jim Carrey film "Liar Liar" .... and watch it with your boy.

It's funny.
It has a point.
It might stimulate a conversation between you and your boy ... let him lead you. He will tell you when he's ready to talk about his Dad's problem.

Take care...
Pep

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Thanks Pep. Good idea. I know I've seen that but it's been a wuile. I will rent it this weekend.
I just really worry about my son keeping everything inside. He doesn't like to talk about his feelings and hides it when I know he wants to cry. He will be going to counseling after the holidays. I hope it will help him.

I was thinking, there is some sexual content in that film ... just in case your boy is too young.

Pep

Tree -

My oldest D has witnessed not only flat out lying, but her father would say anything, do anything, any excuse not to see her. She is 18 now and he has been doing it since she was 5!

When she was very young, I defended/excused her F for the longest time in an effort to not have her feelings too hurt. But she got to a certain age that what she witnessed and the excuses I made were obvious. I stopped defending, I stopped excusing. I was not going to lie to her like he was lying to her.

Your S knows he is lying. Don't jump in to point out his lies, but do not excuse or defend them and be open to talk to him if he asks questions. Be non-judgmental but validate his feelings! I made sure I told my D that she had every right to feel hurt, angry etc that her F lied, and ignored her. But I never bad mouthed him.

She has come to the realization of what type of person her F is these days. She has very limited contact - her choice! Once she turned 18 her F wanted all kinds of contact! Guess the "responsibility" was gone so now he wanted a friend/daughter! She knew exactly what he was doing.

Stay strong for your S. I am so sorry you are going through this with you WS.

I liked Pep's advice of renting Liar, Liar. My D and I had a very insightful conversation about her F after watching that movie!

Good luck, Tree.
Hugs, Frags

Pep...I'll check it our first...thanks!

Fraggles...
Thanks for the advice. I am trying very hard to be the better person. I knkow my son will see his dad for what he really is on his own. It's really sad though because they used to be so close. It breaks my heart that things have changed in their relationship. All I can do is be there for my son and teach him right from wrong and let him know that I love him from the bottom of my heart.