OK, I'm also with you guys in spirit but I also remember how completely out of control this situation was a month ago. The anger and the resentment escalated to dangerous levels, and this was happening when there was NC. I don't want to see a replay of that. I know you remember GC; that's why you are asking the right question.

I'll admit that I don't know the whole story.

But I'll tell ya, if my W were 2 say she was interested in coaching with SH with me - or ANY counselor/coach - I'd jump at the chance.

If anger and violence are potential issues, they could always stay apart while they counsel 2gether.

-ol' 2long

Michael,

What a relief that things are going in a positive direction for you. I was really worried about you. It's good to see that you're taking care of you & your children.

I'll have to admit that I'm w/2long & GC on this one. Michael, you have been praying for this day since you first found out about the A. God has answered your prayers. He has been speaking to you all along & you haven't been able to hear Him. What more would you like from God to show you that He indeed has your best interests at heart?

Your W needed this. She needed to have the rug pulled out from under her in order for her to see that you & her children meant more to her than what she thought. When I had talked w/her, I thought too that she indeed was not that great of a person for wanting to leave her own children behind & giving up on everything. But, after much reflection & prayer, I had realized that she was very confused & needed some kind of jolt to wake her up out of the dreamlike state she was in. That has happened.

I'm sorry that you have had to endure so much pain, & I know that you want to avoid that pain again, but there is nothing saying that you have to give up everything you're accomplishing if you start recovery. Sometimes God has to break all the old ties in order to build fresh new ones. This could very well be the chance you had been praying for to start over & form a new R w/your W. She seems repentant. That doesn't mean that you should blindly trust her again. It only means that God is giving you an opportunity to put your best foot forward, learn how to forgive her, and start down a new path of healing & recovery.

I do hope you listen to the others & start to converse more w/your W & give her a chance to prove to you that she indeed means what she says. This is all going to take some time, Michael. No one says you have to rush things. Take it one day at a time cause that's all you have.

May God be with you,
Y

GreyCloud:

What would it take for you to believe she's sincere?

I'm not sure maybe just some time to see that she is doing everything she say's and that it's not just another ploy to get back in and destroy what I am becoming. This is a woman who on a very Cold October Night left my son in her car with it turned off and him asleep and alone for 25 minutes while she was in the OM's car giving him a Bj... I mean come on, I lay awake at night thinking about this and wondering what MOM what parent would do that to there child. And yes I'm angry over it. I have the video the PI took of it all and I have it sitting on my desk loking at me and me wondering when I will have the courage to watch it.


Graycloud,

Your the best and I know you mean well, But i need to know that what she wants is for real and not just another day at the park for her. I don't want to punish her for what she has done, I want to know that she is really sincere and I wish I really did know what it would take. Right now I know Michael needs time, he needs time to make sure the kids are happy, he needs time to stay healthy, He needs time to measure the hurt in months not days or hours, Michael still needs to find a way to save his home.


2LONG:


But you have kids, and you have a responsibility 2 give this a go for their sakes. Love is a choice, it's not a feeling. I think you should choose 2 love your W for who and what she is - your W and the mother of your children - and give this some serious effort.


I owe her nothing because of the children, She left one of our children asleep in her car with it turned off and sitting on a dark street at midnight to climb in another car and give the OM a BJ, so tell me, what should I really do for the sake of the kids and there mother, I owe her nothing...

But I do owe my children happiness and right now they are happy, they don't even miss her and they have no desire to even see her and she knows this because the Law Guardian told the Judge in court that the children have no desire to have any contact with there mother.

The LAw Guardian had each of the children evaluated and he found that her A hurt the Children on such a deep level of trust that they have no desire to see or talk to there mother, But the children have told me that if I want ww back they will try to forgive her as well.


FAITHFUL FOLLOWER:

Michael, I am with GC and 2L on this. She is repentent, she is doing everything required of her and your children deserve a mother. Take her up on the offer of MC and get a couple sessions in the Harley's. This is a gift from God for you, Michael. Accept it. {{Michael and family}}


Once again....I thought we were on day 74 until I walked in her job and caught her on the phone talking to him, I went into my PI buddies office screaming and throing things asking him why he did not tell me she was talking to OM and he told me because he feared I would kill OM...I moved out of my own home that day and the very next day I had CPS put a restraining order against her keeping her away from me and the children. In court the judge gave her two weeks to leave the house and return it to me and informed her that if she comes near me or the children he will have her locked up.

This woman this mother I later found out left my son alone in a turned off car at midnight , so she could give om a BJ in his car...Where was GOD that night..Tell me again why I should rush my recovery and let her back in...


Look I love all of you for your honest answers and insight and thats what I love about this board. But why is everyone jumping on me to rush this. I still have so much anger over what she has done to me and the children, I still have scars from her hitting me and beating on me, The judge told me in court that I should have defended myself and that any officewr would have understod that, But I could never hit my wife, never..Well keep it coming everyone...

M:

"I owe her nothing because of the children"

I didn't say you owe her anything. I said you owe your children the effort.

Please get outside your own thread a bit. Take a look around you at the si2ations we've all been subjected 2. My W's A lasted 12 YEARS. I found out over 3 years ago. The EA continued for at least a year and a half longer, and contact has continued sporadically until at least last summer. It may be going on still.

Violence is a different story. Even the Harleys wouldn't recommend a spouse stay in a M where physical abuse is going on.

I'm not suggesting you take her back. All I'm suggesting is that you take advantage of this oppor2nity you've been given - geez, her parents are willing 2 pay for the counseling? That's a GREAT deal.

She clearly has issues that need 2 be addressed long before you can reconcile. It is noteworthy that she appears willing 2 make a go of it.

One of my main reasons for "pushing" like this is because, if you really think about it, whether you reconcile and stay married or get a divorce, RECOVERY, specifically personal recovery, is not an option, it's imperative.

best,
-ol' 2long

Michael, I am not by any means saying you need to rush things nor do you need to rush letting him back in the house. However, you have an apparently repentent WW willing to do the work and your children deserve to have both parents in their lives. The situation she put your son in is disgusting but at what point do you decide that she has changed? Get into MC with her and watch her actions. Set a deadline if need be to help you feel in control. Michael, step back and look at your kids. If there is a chance for your M to survive they will be much better for it. I am so sorry for all of your hurt and pain. I truly am.

Michael,

While I agree that your WW is SHOWING great signs, the time frame IMO is WAY too soon to permit her back in.

It seems that we all warn about letting a WS back in too soon without having to do the necessary steps for recovery, so I am very puzzled by some of the responses that you have received. Perhaps I am just not as familiar with your story.

Just my opinion, but I would rather let a WS return months later than months too soon. Regardless, positive signs abound.

Mike:

Welcome back. I am with CY above, what is the rush to do anything with your wife now. IN my opinion....(take it or leave it my friend) your wife's WORDS and HOPES for reconciliation mean NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You owe your kids safety.........and right now that is best served with your WW OUT OF THE F-ing House. You should drop any worry about your marriage and wife and focus your energies on healing yourself and protecting and healing your children from all of this. There is no doubt that they are hurting and will need counseling to deal with all of this. You don't OWE your wife anything. Your children I am sure are thriving now with at least some modicum of stability. If your WW is still repentant and SHOWING LONG TERM actions of true change MUCH LATER down the road, maybe you can consider a "chance" at reconciliation then....but to even entertain this now, you are asking for too much.

Micheal........YOU almost ended your own LIFE TWICE.....YOU would have essentially left your children as orphans. PLEASE, focus everything on your OWN recovery and children's recovery. This has long not been about Marriage Building for you.

Goodluck. I pray that you can stay "true" to yourself and focus on yourself this time. Let your WW reap all of the consequences of her actions. IMHO a reconciliation attempt now would be the last thing you need as you try and rebuild your life. Recovery is very hard and draining on the soul, WHY IN THE HELL would people be counseling you to do this now when you are fighting just to stay alive for yourself and children?

I am sorry that I cannot be the rah rah "make your marriage" work at all costs poster, but I just cannot let this slide today.

Goodluck my friend. I wish you and your children continued health and happiness for the future.

Edited: becasue I just don't have the energies to deal with the whole "this is a marriage building site, you should be preaching reconciliation Lemonman".

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Taking this to a more appropriate thread.
Sorry for any TJ.

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

WOW,

Is this a for real story - I am sooo sorry MS, that you are dealing with all this! I canNOT believe that there is a Mom out there that would do all this to her kids. Sorry, not meaning to belittle YOUR sitch, but these kids have been thru hell and high water- and GOOD for you for trying your best for them!!

You know, you were one of the few who responded to my post before and I feel really bad that I did not even know your story! Sometimes we get so caught up in our own probs, well selfish is the word for that, and again all I can say is sorry.

First of all, Protect your children FIRST. And yes, alot of us would like to have our WS say all the things your WW has said, but that does not make what she says the truth. I, for one, would have a hard time believing someone who has gone back and forth so much-and so extremely.

I consider myself an extreme person, but whoa, she sounds like she is definitely in need of some major counseling.

I would also like to agree with all who told you to take care of yourself and your problems first. I do not want to sound as if I am siding with your WW at all - I can just see some past possible probs from her perspective also. Financial Support, yes definitely, this is a point where fixing yourself may fix your M also. And strength from her H, I consider myself a fairly strong person and do not appreciate always seeming to be the strong one in my M, emotionally. She may need some strength, emotionally, from you. This could be another point where fixing yourself may help fix your M.

I am not even saying that you should even be worrying about fixing your M. This whole drama- and I can see that A's can cause a whole lot of drama- should NEVER have gotten to the point where you almost lost your kids and house, because of your WW's confusion. Whew, what a nightmare.

That's as far as I can go right now, I lurk alot, partially because I don't have the answers (although that doesn't always keep me from giving my humble opinion) and also because I hate typing, and logging in and posting can be very much a pain in the butt (I don't know why)!!

Lots of hugs- Just blown way away by this thread!!
JLS

Well, I seem 2 need 2 repeat myself, because it appears Cy and LM are putting words in2 my posts.

I think he should take advantage of the counseling oppor2nity. I know I would.

I didn't say he should invite his WW home.

End of discussion,
-ol' 2long

Michael,

I don't think anyone here is condoning letting your W move back in & act like everything's hunky dory. That's not the meaning of recovery. Recovery starts w/you & it seems like you're on the road of personal recovery. From everything you've been through I applaud your efforts in even keeping alive. Just you being here has shown that you are a man w/a lot of courage & that needs to be applauded.

Like I said to you in my post, all of this takes time. Sometimes a long time. What I did try to convey to you that seems to get lost every time I say it is that God has never left your side. Yes, it may seem like He has, but that's b/c you haven't been in tune w/Him in such a long time, possibly never, that you can't see it. I can see it though & it's all around you. He's in the love, the support you're getting from everyone on MB, He's there in CPS stepping in to help your children, He's in the love you get from your children. Can't you see all He has done for you? You yourself said that you feel better. You feel more physically fit & your children are smiling again b/c Dad's smiling. Can't you see that? He was there at the times when you so desparately wanted to end your life, yet He saved you from doing it. Signs are being shown all around you, yet you can't see them. What would it take for you to see them? A big flash lightning bolt from the sky? God just doesn't work that way & I feel sorry for you if you think He should.

I have to ask you like GC asked, you want to know that your W's for real, but what would it take for you to know that? You want her to get down on her knees & beg? You want her to be completely stripped of everything she has? It seems like that's what you want here. You want her to suffer as much as you have. So if that's true, then when you say that you wouldn't wish this pain on your worst enemy, you're lying.

God tells us to love our enemies & bless those who hurt us, pray for them. Have you even tried to do that? Have you prayed for her? If you have, maybe, just maybe, God is doing it. Maybe He's helping her. That doesn't mean that you have to take her back in the house, it doesn't mean that you have to say okay let's reconcile right now, but what would it hurt to go to a MC & tell her in front of the MC how badly she has hurt you & what your concerns are? Your children have even shown the love of God when they told you that if you want her back that they will try to learn to forgive her. Your children!

God knows what He's doing, Michael. There is a reason all of this is taking place. No, you may not know it, we don't know it, but there is a reason. You know for sure that you can't trust your W, but there is the underlying question. Can you trust God? The answer for you right now is no. You aren't trusting Him. You keep questioning everything. You keep questioning God asking Him where have you been? where are you now? He is there Michael. You started to reach out to Him before, just trust Him. You seem so much stronger now then you were. He helped you get there. Just trust Him.

Love in Christ,
Y

I wanted to thank all of you for all of your sound and very nobel advice. Wife is still out of the home and I am still fighting a strong fight to keep the home. I need to ask some of my friends on here for some help. I need to set my pride aside and ask if any of you could please help me.

I can be found on yahoo most nights after 8:00 pm est..my screen name is Mschluter2002 ...

If you know my story then you know me...I need help and I need it bad...All of you are my last hope of saving my home for my children.

Update:


Well WW moved to her dad's over the weekends so that she can be an hour closer to me and the kids. Last night she wanted to stop by and visit me and talk but the restraining order forbids her from coming near me or the kids.

She asked me if I am still working on saving the house and I told her of course, I feel like life does go on, I was asked out for a drink by one of the young woman at the Martial Arts Center I spar at.

WW asked me how the kids were doing and if they miss her and I told her that they were doing just fine, I let her talk to our youngest for ten minutes and I don't know what she asked him but he told her She broke his heart and that he is sad.

He handed me the phone and all I could hear was her sobbing and telling Cody she was sorry for being such a bad mommy and that she is going to help daddy love her again.

Why is it that it takes such horrible events for ws to figure out the big picture.

I went through hell the last ten months with my ww and it just amazes me that when I finally do walk away she wakes up and wants the Marriage and the family and tells me she misses it.

I called the inlaws and told them instead of wasting there money on the harleys why not help me save there Grandkids home. FIL told me that they were working on taking out a loan against there home to help us pay for some serious sessions with the harleys. MIL told me that she feels like a lot of this is her fault and that maybe her Affair leading to her marriage ending and marrying SFIL might have gave WW the wrong idea.

WW I guess spent last night talking to ger DAD about her mom and stepdad. I guess her father told her he gave her mother almost 6 months and then just could not deal with it and that WW should look at me through a diffrent set of eye's. He told her that he gave it 6 months and yet I have given it almost 10 months and that She should be impressed with that. He told WW that she made some serious mistakes and that she needs to now sit back and maybe start to think that maybe she needs to walk away and let me and the kids be happy. She told FIL that she could never do that and that she wants to save the marriage and be a happy family again and that she would never do this again and that she would rather die then see OM again and hurt me anymore.

So anyway. SFIL and MIL asked wife to move out to her dads because they could not deal with her being so upset over all of this and that she needs to face her demons, She told me she moved out on her own to be closer but I guess thats not really what happend.

I have an Appt with the Bank today to see if they could please give me just a few more day's. I also have a CPS appt at 2:30 today, they need to see if I am doing everything to save the house and where I am at in the process. I was told that if it comes down to taking the children it won't be because I am a bad father just that they need to make sure the children have a place where it is stable until I find a new place and show the courts I can stand on my own. If I save the house then all is good.

WW and I have court on Tuesday. I may have the restraining order lifted for a little while or see if she can come over one day a week so we could talk.

I went to an IC session with her and once I get all those thoughts together on that day I will post it on here. To say the least I was surprised at just how deep her A was and how lost she was in it.

I can say this, her IC told me that WW needs to make me feel safe. He also told me the day I cought her talking to Om was a day she was getting ready to end it and that ww was telling me the truth and that it was something he and her were working on, and that durring that time she was still talking to OM it was all an EA and that she has not seen or been with OM since NOV 5th when he dropped off some of her things.

Well lets here what needs to be said.

How do I let her back and still feel safe and should I.

I really am happy with my life right now and I feel stronger and better. I just need to save this house and I will feel complete.

Hi Michael,

I only posted to you a couple times I think but have been following your thread and watching how people respond to you.

I will just give my opinion as if I were in your shoes.I think you should make a list of priorities that you would personally like to get accomplished and take one day at a time.Your WW essentially claims to have ended the A at the beginning of this month right? She hasn't proven much of anything yet.

There is no reason at all to fly into counseling yet.Afterall,I hear so much more strength in your posts now and you did indeed get to a place that is far beyond despair.You have achieved a modicum of self worth again and it feels good doesn't it? You feel worthy again and that means you walk at your own pace,not what other's are pushing you toward.That is the changeover that I look for.

Your priorities are yourself and children and getting the home settled.Your WW and marriage,sorry to say,is on the back burner for now.Like you mentioned,many WS's start to realize what they have at stake when you take it away.Your WW is wanting to reclaim her marriage but she is going to have to wait.If she is serious about this,she WILL wait.

Take care of your home,children and financial issues first.Good luck with your meetings today and keep us posted on how things go.

O

edited for typos

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

I am of the opinion that your marriage has the best chance for success if your wife is allowed the opportunity to demonstrate long term changes in her self and in her life. As a father you have no choice but to protect your children. For ten months your wife demonstrated no regard for you or your children. You can't take any chances. I think that she should demonstrate ten months of serious changes before she has any major contact with your children .

For whatever reason you stated that you weren't ready for MC. I think you should wait until you are ready to go. Instead continue IC. But in the mean time for as long as you are married, you should not date other women. Once your wife has proof of her responsible thinking and actions, and *you* are ready, go to counseling and began reconciliation.

This is only IMHO. Take only what might benefit your family & discard the rest.

BW

Double post

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: BWise ]</small>

What OctoberGirl posted is pretty much what I was thinking also. First priority is to secure housing and safety of children.

I pray that you can come to a place where you are able to forgive your wife. I believe that in your case you may have to be willing to take a chance in order for the healing to begin. But I don't want you to take that chance until you are able to handle the outcome, no matter what it is.

Leave the door open for her for now and give her some encouragement to continue moving towards the light.

You know, I kind of wish that Mortarman would jump in here; he gives excellent advice and I think he might be able to help. Maybe you want to start a new thread and ask him directly. If so, I would suggest giving a short summary of your story to help him understand where your at.

Sounds to me like your pretty undecided on whether to let her come back home or not. Considering what you've gone through I'd suggest err on the side of caution. No sense rushing into anything. As the other posters have said its taken a long time to get this messed up, if she wants to come back and fix things she can wait for you to be ready.

Hang in there!

Miker

Attended a appt with ww today and then we had breakfast together and I dropped her off at her sisters so her dad could come and get her...


Have more worries about the house and kids then ww and me.

Having a bad day today.. could use some cheering up if at all possible