I cannot say I don’t love him, I do... in a way, yet I know I could never go back… I don’t believe he’d ever change… and I don’t give up my own vision of what togetherness should looks like…

We have a son (3) and we do try to be the best parents as much as we are capable of at all…

X suggested many times we should do things together with our boy (X wants us to reconcile too, but as he has changed nothing I slowly give up any hope... OW still present, once per month though, he says she's not important anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

I do work hard on accepting father of my son the way he is and trying to get over all hurt in order for us to be as good co-parents as possible…

However, I am aware that the best thing for my son would be having his parents in a good relationship (in front of him we are, but that's just a few minutes, for I couldn't have beared to see the three of us, this way...); we don’t badmouth each other… at least I don’t know he does, but I would never say anything bad about him to our son...).

Well… I’m still hurt, sometimes still mad at X… and I still have some triggers…

X so much wants us to spend together this Christmas, he’d make supper for the three of us, and wants my son and me to stay in his apartment overnight to open gifts in the morning…
And, I know that would be excellent for our son… and I don’t know if I’m strong enough not to have triggers once I see... e.g. furniture I had chose for us once… everything… (When I left him I took our son and personal belongings, nothing nothing else… so much I was hurt and didn’t want any reminder of “us”…)

I know I should focus just on what’s the best for my son.
But, I’m afraid I won’t be able to ‘perform’ well… I don’t want to cry or be sad, not for my son, not for Christmas… It is time of love and peace and forgiving… and yes I let it go (99% <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )… still… I guess I don’t want any consequences…

So, the only reason to do this is my son.

What do you think?

Any wise thought how to handle these holidays, under these circumstances?

Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

While it is good NOT to fight in front of your son, the time will come that your son will need to know if not already. Don't play games with your son. Mine told me that little kids don't like to be lied to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for the WS saying the OW is not that much (once a month)....that s/b once a month too much. He is giving you fog babble. Don't fall for it.

As for your son going over and opening presents, you need to decide. This is more for him (WS's placating his guilt) than your son's but if you think it will help the WS see what he w/b missing then, you decide. Maybe you should let him know that if he takes this Christmas with your son, then you will have the next because that is what separated or divorced parents do.

You may find that a WS can't think too far into the future and that s/b to your advantage. Let him know he will need to sign a visitation agreement before hand as an act of good faith.

I would also say that you and your son are a package deal. Even if you are in plan B, I would not want my child to be in the association of a WS who is a stranger to your child. Your H would not be a stranger but you never know what a WS is capable of. I would let him know this also.

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I would also say that you and your son are a package deal. Even if you are in plan B, I would not want my child to be in the association of a WS who is a stranger to your child. Your H would not be a stranger but you never know what a WS is capable of. I would let him know this also.

If you are still in love with you husband than please try to follow the plans to salvage your marriage. A GOOD Plan A followed by a good Plan B.

edited to add -

oops, I think I missed something are you divorced or in Plan A? Even divorced, I still stand by my posts. If you still love him, then you fight to get your marriage back.

I am no longer with my DD's dad because of his infidelity, although he was the love of my life. I didn't know about marriage builders or that there even was a possibility of a good marriage after infidelity, so I ended it. It is a regret I and DD will live with all our lives because I didn't even try to save our (common law) marriage.

Don't make the same mistakes I did.

Do the plans and do them well.

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Hi BTN,

I'll tell you my thoughts and what I am doing this Christmas.

First of all,I truly believe that you can both be loving parents,effective parents and caring parents,but do that *separately.There is no reason that you should be MADE to be with your stbx or WS physically if it makes you uncomfortable.The best thing your WH could have done for your child is not cheat on his mother but that's water under the bridge now.You can't change what he did and he is not really attempting to repair what he smashed.

I have read time and again that some of the most important things you can do for your children post D or during a time of separation is be there for them,keep their *routines,don't lie to them,don't argue in front of them,love and play with them,keep visitation schedules,listen to them,talk to them and keep them active.You can do these things without having to be with the WS.

It is obvious to me that many WS's would love to be able to still be home and play house while still continuing their A on the side.I will not allow my WH to do that though.I told my WH a long time ago that I would rather my DD's see a healthy,happy recovering mother than a depressed,anxious and angry one because I was expected to be around someone who hurt me so horribly,even though he was my former H.I don't think so.

Another important thing that I have read many times is to not give children a false hope of reconciliation.This I had to explain to my WH too.Everytime I let my WH come and be with us and do family things,it was clear that the children felt like he might actually come back to us.Of course he could no longer do that than cut off his arm.He gave us all mixed signals by his being here and being happy with us while we did family things.It was a farce,we were hardly the "family" anymore due to his cheating and I was SO uncomfortable.I had to stop that from happening.

So,this Christmas is his last at home.I made that decision a couple weeks ago.I gave in but it will be the last.I am going to be changing the locks next year.My WH will be taking my kids to see his parents for half the week and after that,he is going back to where he lives most undoubtedly so he can spend time(New Years) with the homewrecker and her crack pot parents.

If you feel up to it,have your WH at home for your son but just keep in mind that you are not forced to and don't let your WH make it sound like you are to be guilty if you choose not to let him slink back in.If the OW wasn't so important and he was only seeing this person once a month(I don't buy it) then he should just can her once and for all.Geeze.

O

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Just to clarify a bit. Children do need both their parents. This is where I feel it is important that the WS be made aware that when he/she is in the presence of our children, they be in the parent/sposue mode. Not the WS mode.

RE: A ws is not a good parent. The spouse though c/b a good parent. See the difference. Even the spouse has to work at being a good parent. A WS has to shed their WS skin and morph back into a good spouse mode to be a good parent. Meaning being cordial and civil with the BS and family.

Hope that makes sense.

L.

I happen to agree 1000% that children and their mothers (or dad if mom is a drugie, adulteress nut case or the like) are a package deal.

Now if you go through with divorce, of course your child will still need his father, but not in the same way he would have had him if you reconciled the marriage.

I wish I had the words to try and explain this better, I will try -

I wanted desperately for my baby girl to have her dad so I sacrificed much to keep him in her life. I completely let go of my relationship with him and pushed a relationship between he and her.

So far so good, except now he is remarried and I turned over 50 % physical custody because I felt I had to for my DD's sake and to be fair to him. - WRONG move! Now she lives in two totally separate worlds, mine and his/stepmothers. They like the idea of them being her parents and me disappearing some where as I don't fit into their family portrait. They are NOT respecting the mother/daughter bond we have nor my place in her life.

I should have made it work with him (if I had only had the tools to try) or kept her in my world as a family unit with me and kept him on a visitation cycle. One home (mine) and a parent from a far and a good friend (him).

That is what I believe O girl is aiming for and she is right on in my opinion.

Thank you all so much!

My computer at home totally crashed (X said to come and fix it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ) and here, at work, it's too hectic...

I'd love to respond, but, for the time being just want to thank you all, hoping I'll be able to answer (and ask a few more questions probably) before Friday, if not I'll write how I handled (IF) Christmas Eve... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Merry Christmas, a lot of happiness and love and peace!

Orchid,

What do you mean by "Don't play games with your son. Mine told me that little kids don't like to be lied to." please?

I don't think I do; he's 3 and no way I'll tell him now the reason his parents are not together.
Yes, he'll probably know one day, and that will be day HE asks for reasons, and no, I won't lie (i.e. OW is just one of reasons)...

As for the WS saying the OW is not that much (once a month)....that s/b once a month too much. He is giving you fog babble. Don't fall for it.

She lives 3,5 hours away, and he has our son every second weekend (she's not there at that time).
Anyway, even if 10K miles away, I won't fall for it, i.e. once or 30x per month or once per year - what's difference for me, for 'us'... but it says a bit of their relatonshio, isn't it?...

...but if you think it will help the WS see what he w/b missing then, you decide.

No, my only intention was/is to try to be good CO-PARENTS, moreover, to have e.g. once per month the three of us met, as civilized people, and have some activities together with our son... for my son's sake ONLY...

Let him know he will need to sign a visitation agreement before hand as an act of good faith.

This is done, I'm totally out, and full agreement was signed about visitations, in details and as per quite many requirements to be met as I requested&insisted till I had them signed by him, in order to protect my son in the future...

I would also say that you and your son are a package deal. Even if you are in plan B, I would not want my child to be in the association of a WS who is a stranger to your child. Your H would not be a stranger but you never know what a WS is capable of. I would let him know this also.

Hmmm, WS or H or X, he's father of my son; so far he's not harm to my son I'm fine they are building dad-son relationship...
(Some people can be good friends but not good Hs, some WS can be you-know-what-they-already-are for their spouse but not bad for kids... I distinguish him as a WS to ME vs. as dad to my son SO FAR he's good for my son...)


Weaver,

I still love him but, in my case, this has nothing to do with wanting to go back to him... Love is fine but it is not enough...
No, I'm done, no regret, not for that... He had excellent chances, blew it... soon I'll forgive him totally (to finally set myself free), but consequences are not going to be changed...

If you still love him, then you fight to get your marriage back.

(My) Just Love is not enough... doesn't go without respect anyway... if it does, that's a very unhappy combination... been there... would rather be alone for the rest of my life than go back to that... (Better alone alone than alone beside someone...)

I am no longer with my DD's dad because of his infidelity, although he was the love of my life. I didn't know about marriage builders or that there even was a possibility of a good marriage after infidelity, so I ended it. It is a regret I and DD will live with all our lives because I didn't even try to save our (common law) marriage.

My case is a bit different; I tried before I learnt of his A... After that I did not tried at all, he had to, and he didn't (did, but not enough, 'too late too little'), and I never feel sorry I with my son left our home...
He did something that is - unacceptable.

I wanted desperately for my baby girl to have her dad so I sacrificed much to keep him in her life. I completely let go of my relationship with him and pushed a relationship between he and her.

I understand that; many times I switched weekends, and before we had papers done I had allowed X to see our son WHENEVER he wanted...
Now I insist on respecting schedule and am still very tollerant... not easy (have to change my plans very often) but still think that's good for my son...
And - that's all, nothing further...
I'd never allow (as much as I can do to protect it anyway) my son living with him.
No, Not because he hurt me so much, but because I can give so much more of good upbringing to our son than X ever could with his drinking and the rest of issues...

Weaver, sorry it ended this way... but you tried what you thought would be the best for your child, and all good mothers do that, and all of us make some inevitable at times mistakes too...


Octobergirl,
First of all,I truly believe that you can both be loving parents,effective parents and caring parents,but do that *separately.There is no reason that you should be MADE to be with your stbx or WS physically if it makes you uncomfortable.The best thing your WH could have done for your child is not cheat on his mother but that's water under the bridge now.You can't change what he did and he is not really attempting to repair what he smashed.

Yes, I agree.
But I read it's the best for the kid (ideally) if parents stay in 'friendly' relationship...
And I want to at least try that...

I have read time and again that some of the most important things you can do for your children post D or during a time of separation is be there for them,keep their *routines,don't lie to them,don't argue in front of them,love and play with them,keep visitation schedules,listen to them,talk to them and keep them active.You can do these things without having to be with the WS.

And I'm fine with that, I do, all of that and much more...

It is obvious to me that many WS's would love to be able to still be home and play house while still continuing their A on the side.I will not allow my WH to do that though.I told my WH a long time ago that I would rather my DD's see a healthy,happy recovering mother than a depressed,anxious and angry one because I was expected to be around someone who hurt me so horribly,even though he was my former H.I don't think so.

Apsolutely same here! And I proved it...

Another important thing that I have read many times is to not give children a false hope of reconciliation.

Here is the place you touch my deepest concern...
No, I don't want that!!
I don't know how much my son (3) get out of all of this, but I'm SCARED if he sees us playing and having fun together from time to time and he sees how much he really misses that in his life... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Like, you don't have something - it doesn't exists, you close your eyes - nobody see you... And that doesn't work either...

Sometimes when X brings our son back my little boy is sad... X really tries his best and plans nice activities with our son during his weekends... and seeing him sad breaks my heart... all I say to him is 'dad went to HIS home, you are back to OUR home, and isn't it nice to be at home, of course you'll again see and be with daddy soon enough, now is HOME TIME...

He gave us all mixed signals by his being here and being happy with us while we did family things.It was a farce,we were hardly the "family" anymore due to his cheating and I was SO uncomfortable.I had to stop that from happening.

I understand... it is hard...
I wander what my feeling will be tomorrow night...
(I 'program' myself to be racional, to focus on my son's needs, to look at X just as my son's father... I'm eager to see how far I am from Dday feelings, how close to being healed... Yes, I know, I'll have moments of sadness seeing my son with his dad and being aware that THAT should have been... well, it hasn't and won't be, and life goes on...)

If you feel up to it,have your WH at home for your son but just keep in mind that you are not forced to and don't let your WH make it sound like you are to be guilty if you choose not to let him slink back in.If the OW wasn't so important and he was only seeing this person once a month(I don't buy it) then he should just can her once and for all.Geeze.

What I meant is the three of us meeting somwhere out, lunch in a restaurant, a play ground for kids... no, not in my home...
Yes, X tried so many times to make me feel guilty ("You left our family, I never would"), but I don't fall for that...
I have my inner feeling of guilt and that is enough... and much harder to deal with...

Re: OW... important enough to stay in a kind of relationship with her (she already is not happy; now when he's free of course she asks for more, and of course he's not capable of giving it...); beside that - not at all...
He doesn't love her (otherwise he wouldn't want me back), he doesn't love me (not enough anyway)... he doesn't love himself either... he looks (and everyone say) very unhappy... sometimes I feel sorry for him (stupid me)...


So, tomorrow evening... I'll be just the mom... Mom the Great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>