Well what do I have after my affair?

I still have my family.

I still have my husband BUT at what level of sanity he exists in I’m not sure. The war took him and returned him to me singed and stitched, a patchwork of horror in every cut, a mind I’m not sure processes reality too well right now.
Then I ‘trap’ him into staying by being pregnant with our new child.
Does he want to go or not? No idea he doesn’t talk to me about that. Isn’t that ironic. Just a few short months ago he complained I would not talk to him!!

SF. Well it feels right and seems real from him I have hope it means he can express love for me I certainly am not getting any let me just have my fun so I can turn over & go to sleep sort of thing, or that his mind is elsewhere at those times. Mmm yes hopeful.

Still love each other? Yes I really think so but not sure if he ‘likes’ me much at times. Since hes been back , only a few days, hes been very affectionate but distant though is that the PTSD we were warned about? Not sure.
I have read a lot in recent weeks on PTSD.
I know the numbers, all the stats on divorce, suicide, murder, assault, insanity. Those things we don’t like to discuss because WE sent them there in the first place. The incident chart sky rockets in relation to the intensity of the action they were in and what the action involved.
Cant do much but be there for him and let him yell or scream or break things.

Well reap what you sow


What have I lost?

His trust .

Inclusiveness in his life. Used to discuss a lot about what he did in general, never any details, now there is nothing. Secrets seem to have slithered in between us.

Stability in our relationship. Who knows what will happen next. Sometimes we seem to lurch from one pain to another.

Respect

Confidence

Honour

Time. I of all people should realise that life is transient there are no guarantees for it and it could end tomorrow especially for a soldier these days.


What have I discovered?

I still love Aussie without condition, no matter what he wants or does it wont change.

My shame & disgust at my actions don’t diminish with time, they just become less overwhelming as some balance returns to it.

For a long time I have resented and blamed Aussie for not being there when our son Peter died. I used this to justify any selfish decision I made or poor behaviour I displayed for many years. I did not use this for the affair I can at least say that but I did use it for petty advantage, drinking too much when I wanted to, and failing as a parent.
And I'm not sure I want to give up the hurt because then Peter will be finally gone from me.

I know I am now willing to get help to do this when before I would have denied I had any problem.

And this all hurts a lot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What have I lost?
His trust .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then regain it back. Are you being accountable for what you have done? Are you prepared to be accountable for what you will do? Do you have a plan? Make his home safe. His home is with you and the kids. He's got so many outside influences, especially right now...just make it as safe as you know how. Express your love; let him know you are physically there, and emotionally returned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Inclusiveness in his life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tough one to give you anything on, knowing your sit. His life is not normal right now. These things he is feeling (above the A) are not something the brain--any human with feelings--can process logically.

Include yourself. Let him know, "I'm here. I'm back. I'm sorry. I want us." Don't be afraid to ask him either, what you can do.
Stability in our relationship. Who knows what will happen next. Sometimes we seem to lurch from one pain to another.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Respect

Confidence

Honour</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ouch. It hurts even reading them again...and again...and again...but, there's no need in beating onesself up because of it. These are things that are earned with the perspective of others' points of view. And their P'sOV are created by your actions. Can't control one's opinion of you. However, you certainly can portray how you would like to be portrayed. Sort of a Catch 22. Boy, do I know. What are you going to do to be respected again? Confidence comes from within. (ALWAYS wanted to say, "Well, DUH!" to one who says that to me. But what you do will give you confidence. Repetition. It's proven to be the best way to learn. And you do things over and over again enough you will gain the confidence back. Honour? Depends on who you want to be honourable to. Honour, also, relies so heavily on the observer. Don't be so concerned with that. Be concerned with actions. Isn't that what got any WS negative attachments to them? Their actions?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Above the A, I think of how much time I have wasted away gambling. Just the time alone. BUT, I can only think to myself that I will not subject my family to that again. And beating yourself up over it, isn't helping AW. There really is nothing you can do about the lost time. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, somebody please correct me, so, I, too can make it up somehow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My shame & disgust at my actions don’t diminish with time, they just become less overwhelming as some balance returns to it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not being sarcastic here: Is it supposed to? Well, maybe the shame. Your actions now define who you are. Disgust? Why should the disgust over the actions diminish? But, how do you handle them, those feelings of disgust? That's the real question that needs to be answered.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this all hurts a lot.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what helped me out on this topic? Knowing that our spouses are hurting that much more. It's self-pity, AW--don't fall into the trap. Yes, the pain is real. It will alwaysbe real. But don't let it define you.

(You're in a real difficult sit here AW. Yes, one where many may never had experienced on MB. I do hope someone who has some experience in this will help you.)

{{AW}}

<small>[ December 18, 2004, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

Hi Liny

Well I kept a journal of each day when he was away detailing everything from the what I did when & where to what I was feeling, the good & bad, maybe too honest perhaps but its everything just like Jl advised me. I gave it to him 3 days ago & explained what it was he just looked at the diary and chucked it on the dining table & there it has been since. Does it mean he doesn’t care or he s not that interested I’m not sure.
As for the PC, mobile phone & phone ALL are in his name & he has total control of the accounts, everything, I don’t even have a separate bank account. So I think I have accepted his right to total accountability. I not sure what else I can do.
I try so hard to show him my love and that I am back. I’m just not sure he can see that.

Confidence, honour, respect yes Liny so much of that comes from within. Once I was so strong and independent I felt I could do most anything. Well I did that didn’t I. Now, well now I wonder if I can do much that is real or important let alone do anything well. I feel I really need Aussie to get past this part now. Maybe its just his support but hes central to it all.

Time Liny, yes gone for both of us. I regret it deeply eternally, but its gone. Well a deep breath and start over .

The disgust & shame no it shouldn’t go away but I hope it becomes easier to handle one day.

As for the pain, how could it not define me in some way, The pain of the affair & Peters death will always effect me. I suppose it will come down to how I will process this pain. It no longer haunts me but it still hurts. But I can talk about it now without being overwhelmed. I guess that’s a start

AW -

Unfortunately the loss of a child takes a heavy toll on most marriages. A great percentage end. I suggest you get the Grief Recovery Book by James and Cherry, I think. If you can't get it there email me a digsblues@aol.com and I will send it to you.

As far as Aussie goes, I think normalcy is the best thing for him right now. If you read about PTSD, those who have it worst are the ones who are least likely to seek treatment.

The vets from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have a very high rate of PTSD. I think the best thing is to realize this, and not expect them to "just get over it". These guys need our support and validation that there is nothing shameful about it. They are having a normal reaction.

As for your transgression - it is in the PAST. It is okay to regret it, but not okay to feel overwhelming shame, and self-disgust. Realize that humans make mistakes. The trick is to learn from them, and move on.

its strange to think I blamed Aussie for so long for simply not being there when Peter died. I wonder at times did he blame me for Peters death? whatever the case we seemed to get through that, though resentment still rears its ugly head every now & then. Probably the same with him. More than half our life has been spent as husband & wife, we must have worked something out.

I'll look for that book Grief Recovery Book & see if I can get it Believer, thank you very much for your kind offer as I would be happy to take you up on it if I cannot find it here.
I am also getting couselling now too on this from our IC/MC when I brought this up last week. In some ways its taken over the MC work the last 3 sessions. Well I think I need it. Its so hard to let go of the last little bit and should I.

As for PTSD and Aussie it does frighten me a little. He looks at me so strangely at times its rather disquietening to say the least. I dont think he ses me but something or someone else.
Would he go get help? I wouldnt put money on it.
He may see our IC/MC who does some work in this area ......perhaps

well he hasnt given up on me so I'm not giving up on him.
Though he worries me a bit.
Early this evening we went to the local park to hear Xmas carols by candle light, mainly due to me asking and asking very nicely just for some fun and to remember good times we've had in the past. Its the first time I've ever heard him sneer at hymns and say prayers are not worth sh*t.
So I kept my big mouth shut and just hugged him to me on the way home. Can't argue something like this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I realised I need to love him even harder now.

I know you are right about not allowing the past control my present, especially with this new life growing within me. No OUR new life growing in me. I did a very ugly thing and I can't make it go away. But it was the past. We do have a future I firmly beleive that with all my heart & soul.

3.00am & thank God his pacing has ended so perhaps we can now go to bed & get some sleep so I can wake up in the morning & puke while not half asleep.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I kept a journal of each day when he was away detailing everything from the what I did when & where to what I was feeling, the good & bad, maybe too honest perhaps but its everything just like Jl advised me. I gave it to him 3 days ago & explained what it was he just looked at the diary and chucked it on the dining table & there it has been since. Does it mean he doesn’t care or he s not that interested I’m not sure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Easy, AW. No, it has nothing to do with caring. Baby steps, right? Hold off on the journal. He'll read it when he's ready. Don't take offense, though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for the PC, mobile phone & phone ALL are in his name & he has total control of the accounts, everything, I don’t even have a separate bank account. So I think I have accepted his right to total accountability. I not sure what else I can do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's good. Keep going--it takes time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I try so hard to show him my love and that I am back. I’m just not sure he can see that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DON'T GET DISCOURAGED!!! Keep showing him, AW. He needs that now, more than ever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel I really need Aussie to get past this part now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Woah! I know this is genuinely how you feel (and I've felt too, really) but it's his timing. Patience. I know we as FWS's just want to get over it and move on, but this is *his* timing to "get over it." A lot has to get worked out in his mind--on top of everything else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time Liny, yes gone for both of us. I regret it deeply eternally, but its gone. Well a deep breath and start over .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*sigh*

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for the pain, how could it not define me in some way,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe it was a poor choice of words on my part, and it may seem like I'm playing semantics here, but yeah, it should effect us--if it doesn't, what have we learned? It *should* be a reminder to the place of where we were and could have been--could have destroyed *everything*. (Like we haven't done enough damage, right?) BUT, what we have learned should define us. Not the constant beating yourself up. It's a fine line. I suppose. (And I just reread this and not sure if I clarified it any. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The pain of the affair & Peters death will always effect me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely, should always effect. I cannot fathom everything the two of you have been through.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suppose it will come down to how I will process this pain.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I think you explained it best.

Keep showing him you love him--little, "simple" things. You're doing fine. You'll be OK.

*sigh*

so much for ending the pacing. Now hes walking around the house...just jumped over the super six side fence, walked through the front garden, now back over the side gate ... God I'm tired... 3.35am and counting

AW, just wanted to add my support.

When Aussie was posting on here he talked about the war a lot more than he talked about your A.

I really think that's what you're dealing with here and I really think he needs more help than you are qualified to give. I do think you're doing brilliantly with what you are doing for him.

Hugs for you AW. It must be h*ll for you watching him go through this.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really think that's what you're dealing with here and I really think he needs more help than you are qualified to give. I do think you're doing brilliantly with what you are doing for him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My-our (brown is right here too) senitments exactly. You are doing the best you can, everything *YOU* can under the circumsatnces.

Isn't there a psychiatrist/chaplain/somebody that can offer aussie/all these men and their spouses some support?!?!? Didn't they give you all a number to call in cases like this? My goodness, what the both of you are going through!

{{{{Aussie/AW}}}}

I've got the number right here but this behaviour is 'normal' according to the duty officer WTH ????? well nomal being its a common response to his mind set right now.
its supposed to be checking the perimiter to protect his 'men' that me & our daughter apparently.

Well enoughs enough. I'm going to try the age old woman thing and see if he stops & will come in or I get a black eye. Its past 4 am and I need sleep and so does he.

Sure it's "normal" but where's their support?!?!?
Gentle, AW. Love him. Let him know you are there. Let him know there is love there. Let *HIM* talk about everything if he wants. Don't force any subjects now. He needs to process everything. Be there for him.

AW - Be glad he's only posting the perimeter. Lot's that came back are doing worse things. Locked out of the house? No problem - kick the door in. Wife locks the bedroom door? Not to worry, that gets kicked in too.

made slight error last night I tapped him on the shoulder from behind.

Should have known better, read all the the data and listened to the lecture but still messed it up.

So now I have a bruise on my [censored] and a freaked husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Attempting SF was a bit painful for obvious reasons. So is sitting down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<small>[ December 18, 2004, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: aussieswife ]</small>

Inclusiveness in his life. Used to discuss a lot about what he did in general, never any details, now there is nothing. Secrets seem to have slithered in between us.

This jumps out at me as a biggy. I would address this in a big way. I know from looking back, that in the two big loves of my life that failed (my DD's dad and my ex fiancee) I can see now that this was the beginning of the end.

Not saying that it is so in your case, but I remember thinking right before I called off our wedding that we never talk any more. I couldn't even remember him telling me about who he was working with. You know I used to know everything about all his co-workers and all of a sudden I knew nothing. I think I stopped talking about my dreams to him, in fact I think I stopped dreaming. I wanted so badly to take in foster babies, and all of a sudden one day it was like we didn't even talk about that anymore. It was completely forgotten by both of us. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think you are such a great gal, and I wish you could put your affair behind you.

"Regret is like rocking in a rocking chair, you can spend alot of time doing it but you never get anywhere."

Start talking about your dreams to him again and start asking about his, and all the day to day stuff in between. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AW,

Hey, you lovely preggars, you! I want to try to communicate something that is hard to communicate, so will you do me a favor and try to stretch your imagination as far as you can as I write this??

I also suffer/suffered from PTSD--mine is from being beaten as a child and from an abusive husband. As a person who has PTSD, it very much feels like being numb and on "automatic pilot." See, in order to just physically survive some horrifying things, your mind has to turn off some parts and let other parts just "take over."

In my instance, for example, in order to be a child and not die from being hit with a broom handle, I had to not feel the physical pain, not feel hurt feelings, and not cry. For me, I focused VERY HARD on the pattern of the couch or on the lightbulb in the lamp so that I did not feel those things. Thankfully, I physically survived the ordeal AND somewhat emotionally/mentally survived too! However, lots of my ability to feel physical pain was just "turned off" (like, I can cut, burn or bruise myself and not feel it too well and it doesn't sting)--my emotions were basically completely disconnected PERIOD (I had to learn to turn them back on)--and stuffed any tears that I had WAY down and rarely if ever cried.

In order to "unlearn" some of the lessons that I learned to survive, I did have to have professional help. I did have to get counseling to reconnect to my body and have physical sensations feel (not sex stuff--more like, "oh, I bumped my leg...that may leave a bruise"). I did have to get counseling to learn how to feel safe enough to have emotions again. I also had to have couseling to learn how to cry (can you believe that??)

Finally, even now, after some counseling and working on myself, I have incidents of unexpected PTSD. For example, I was at a local thrift store and saw an old 70's couch that had the exact same pattern as our family couch that I had concentrated on so hard. It messed with my mind a little. When I saw it, what kind of happens is not just a flashback...it's more like a timewarp. You are no longer in the present--you are back there and your mind is reliving all the stuff that happened. All the trauma stuff feeling like it's happening right now. Luckily, I have had counseling, and I was able to recognize it and try to do specific things to come back to the here and now. I don't think Aussie is there yet.

If Aussie is pacing at night, it's probably sort of an "automatic pilot" thing that he HAD to do in order to survive over there...in order to assure that his unit members and friends survived too!!! But AW, I bet there are times when you can kinda tell he is "here" and other times when you can kinda tell he's not...right?? When he IS "here" see if you can talk to him about it (like: "When you pace at night, I keep waking up and get very little sleep--and since I'm in a delicate condition, sleep is necessary. But I also realize that pacing is something you may need to do for a while, so how can we work out something?"). When he IS NOT "here" one thing you might try (let him know ahead of time--don't just surprise him by trying this!!!) is bringing him back into the "here and now" by using the five senses. For example, I look at the flowers in front of my face...the color of clothes I'm wearing...the curtains...anything I can see, or the sounds I'm hearing NOW (music, fan, heater, cars driving by), or the smells I am smelling right now, or touching something that I find pleasant right now (like something soft or smooth like a worry stone), or.... The point being to use the five senses to bring him back into NOW.

Some of the other stuff (like feeling physical pain, or feeling emotions) are probably going to need deeper, professional help. But speaking as one person who has PTSD, hang in there kid. He's in there...just sort of numbed out and on auto.


CJ

Wow CJ

you have him right down to a T.
I can tell when hes'here & when hes 'over there' and its freaky until you get it right.

Well the version of waking him up I used didn't work too well did it.. ouch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ok I'll try the focus on one item at a time and see if that works. He seems to scan your face and can usually come back after that or if not it likes he recognises no threat and walks around you.

But I'm taking him to the clinic tomorrow he promised he would attend after our little incident last night.
But cripes hes driving me up the wall like a old mother hen. Am I ok, does it hurt, are you sure we shouldn't go to the emergency centre, HONEY its a BRUISE on my butt for goodness sakes!!
But I'm doing a count to 10 and smiling and accepting it all because he needs and wants to give it.
On second thoughts I shouldn't complain at all its rather nice isnt it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I wonder if I could push it to running a bath and a foot rub???

CJ I am so sorry to hear you suffered that and have PTSD now. I never understand hurting a child like that, never will. But happens all too often. I'm also glad to see you have overcome that and the pain and refuse to allow it to rule your life.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with this darn thing with me. Its very hard to get people to understand whats happening.
What I dont understand though is why does the Army expect my man to suddenly get over it and go back time after time.
Did you know they are trined to NEVER give up, not ever, not to surrender unless that is made a standing order in circumstance A , B, C etc.
So he'll keep going until it kills him or hes too old. Come on 45!!

Dear AW,

This is somewhat of a ramble, so please bear with me.

I think Jenny is correct. Aussie's problem is not about you nor your A, it is about going into combat and returning so fast.

Our Army found this to be a problem during Vietnam. Before then, troops went into action after travelling there by ship. They had weeks to mentally prepare for action. After it was over, they had weeks to decompose as they traveled by ship back home. Starting with Vietnam, Flying the troops was faster and more effecient. However, within just a day or two, troops were going from homelife to combat. On the reverse side, they went from the horrors of combat to their families without any time to mentally prepare themselves. The Armies have got to find a better way to deal with this.

I do believe that is what Aussie is going through. I'm positive Aussie wants you, needs you, loves you, and apprceiates you more than he can ever express.

When this is over, I'm willing to bet WAT's boat that you will receive from Aussie run baths, foot rubs, and anything else your heart desires as he struts around while you bet bigger with your new future growing within you. Just don't forget the other children.

You are quite a woman AW. Aussie is a lucky guy.

Hi Ron

well I got the bath and he hasnt said no to the foot rub, but the poor guy is looking so tired I'll just let him doze off quietly and hope he'll not wander around tonight.

Do you really think the affair does not come into his thinking on us Ron? Wish I was so sure.
I dont doubt he loves me, after all it wouldnt hurt him if he didnt love me would it.
I wonder about where he is in the affair though.

I mean if you remember we hadnt got far really in recovery, were in a bit of a limbo in fact. isnt it likely that as his PTSD fades or comes under control his concerns of the affair will reassert??
I just dont want to assume its ok.

Hello AW,

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents if you'd allow it. I've never been in combat, although have done much live, grueling, intense training during my four years in the Marines. I have heard, read, and been trained on a few things about PTSD. They really push that now a days in todays military. As a SGT. in the Marines I was constently assesing the mental status of the marines in my charge.

I agree with Ron completely, that now a days Marines/Soldiers have relatively little time to "change their hats". They are going from mach 1, watching their back, staying frosty at all times. To then trying to relax, and not let a cracking stick make them jump. It also depends on the experiences, characteristics, of the individual soldier/marine. Their are chaplains in the military that could probably help you H.

That being said, In my own experience, when I came back home and even while I was away, there was nothing more that I thought about when I had a break then home. My home, wife, family was my number 1 saving grace. I'm sure that is the same with many in the military, your H included. Now I hate to say this and hope that I'm wrong. But the life that you H has come home to is not the same for him. So he is probably torn and confused. Of course you H loves you, there is no doubt. He is just hurting and the PTSD if that is what he has is definately not helping matters.

Sorry this is a little long, it's just a few thoughts that I had. Take it all with a grain of salt though as I've only read a few of your posts and don't know the whole story.

Native.

AW -

A long time ago, before I knew you, I posted to Aussie that he had to make the decision to commit to his marriage (or not). He chose to commit to it.

Don't get stressed out about that. Work on getting through this and making your marriage better than before.