Last night my husband left to go pick up his mom. She lives about six hours away and she will be staying with my SIL for Christmas. Before he left we got into argument about his friend who he brought to live with us for awhile. He also knew I didn't want him to go because I feel very overwelmed with having the baby and everything and I would like his help. He left anyway with me in tears. He called later on his cell frustrated that I was upset. Started going into the whole I just want out of our marriage speech. I just stopped him and said "You know, we are both angry and upset and I really don't feel like talking about this right now." He stopped and said "Well bye then."

We kept talking and he started talking about what he felt that got things to where they are in our marriage. We both got comfortable for one. I totally loved him but I loved him and showed him love the way I feel loved. After reading about EN I realized his was completely different than mine. And he felt like after we got married I didn't care about pleasing him anymore.

After we got married I realize I turned into this nagging woman. I was always on him about something. When we first started dating he would call me and talk for hours. Now he barely talks to me. He said I don't understand him and he doesn't feel like he can talk to me. I asked him what changed. He said "Back then I listened now instead of listening I give opinions or argue his feelings." I realize this now. I know sometimes you just need someone to listen and you don't want advice or opinions. I have a habit of doing that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Also he feels that we are not that compatible. He says we don't have anything we both enjoy doing together. He has tried working out with me. But it was at a time I really wasn't into it and I was very excited about it. Now I really do want to workout since I had the baby. But he says it's to late I already ruined it for him. I think we just need do new things together. Maybe take a class at the local college or learn something new. Find things we both like.

Also I know I need to work on my communciation and listening skills. I want to understand him. I want him to be able to come to me and feel comfortable talking to me. I know he calls OW because he feels she understands him and listens. Just like I once did.

I really do want to work on ME. I guess it really didn't hit me till last night that I have become totally different since we married. I kind of lost me in the process. I know I didn't make my husband cheat. But I can see how I helped our marriage get to the way it is. I know my husband also needs to make changes and also helped to get the marriage the way it is. But I can only control me. I can work on me.

I just hope I didn't realize things to late for us. I didn't do a good plan A at all. I became pregnant shortly after finding out about OW. Every single day I was in my husbands face either angry or crying about the whole ordeal. I really never gave him a chance to work things out. I wasn't patient. And I didn't work on the changes I needed to make. I know what I did probably pushed him away even more.

I am sad. Because I wish I knew a long time ago the way he felt about certain things. I guess sometimes he tried to tell me. But it didn't sink in till last night. My husband most of the time just didn't say anything when things bugged him. He didn't want to upset me or make me made. I think he is a conflict avoider.

I just think I need time to heal from having my daughter. I want to focus on her. She is three weeks old now and she is already growing and changing. I have been totally focused on my husband and OW. I am depressed and feel overwelmed. I just want to put all the other stuff aside for now till after the holidays. Enjoy Christmas with my kids and start on my changes for ME. Because even if he does leave one day. I know that I still need to make these changes because I am not happy with the woman I have become.

<small>[ December 22, 2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: SadMarylandLady ]</small>

I think that after finding out about OW and the whole ordeal my greatest fears came to life. I became even more insecure and tried to hold on even more tightly to my WH. I became the clingy, pleading, begging and demanding woman. I didn't want to but I didn't know how to deal with the whole mess.

I do have so many good qualities though. I hope my husband one day can focus on them. Instead right now he is just looking at the bad things. I know he does this to justify his actions. Even though he is doing what he is doing I still have hope because I still see some good things in him. I know there will be days I make mistakes and fall back into my old habits. But I am determined to work hard on myself.

I know if my husband gives up and really does leave and eventually files for divorce he will regret it. But I cannot force him to stay and fight for our marriage. I know he feels sufficated, bored, like his life is going nowhere and that he made a mistake marrying me. I just want to give him a little space to figure things out without me being in his face. I know I have every right to be angry. It's not right what he is doing. I know he got lost. I know he made a mistake. I know he got himself into this thing so deep and no it's hard to get out. I also know he is a good man still. Just confused and foggy.

I am taking this time for ME. And I am giving him space and letting him go in a way because I love him so much. I don't want him to be unhappy. But I do know that we CAN have a marriage that both of us enjoy and where both of us are happy. And I do know now that nothing I say will make him snap out of it. He has to find his way back to me and back to his morals and values he once had. I can become the lighthouse guiding him back with my love, patience, understanding and love. Letting go is the hardest thing when you fear the unknown... But I know I cannot hold onto him like I have been because that is making him run the opposite direction.

SML,

Your H was and is a very selfish man. None of his words indicates he things about anyone else than himself. Is he the only male child in his family? Is he the most spoiled child in his family?

As long as he remains as is, he will go from one R to another....being totally irresponsible until he won't have a choice. That day is nearer than you both realize.

IMHO, tell him you love the man who was responsible and cared for his family. Talking to him when you were dating was fun but real life as in real love takes commitment. If he can't see past his nose and only thinks about himself then you and the children had better get him out of your lives because he is a diaster already happening for him.

Then let him know that one day when he does decide to grow up, let you know. If you can fit him in your life, you'll think about it but if you can't he will have to grow up another way.

BTW, seeing how he is, I would not change your stance or approach. If you give into his selfish demands, then you will be condemming you and your children to a life of further abuse.

RE: I was given the same line of BS from my WS. It didn't hold an ounce of water in my book. H later admitted, that was a very selfish and cowardly thing for him to say and do. If I had given into his demands, he said he would have kept up that lifestyle.

L.

<small>[ December 19, 2004, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

He admits right now he is being selfish but right now wants to do what he wants to do. I am not backing off. I am just waiting till after the holidays to make any MAJOR decisions. Until then I will be pleasant and try to give him the space he wants.

Also he went to his moms to pick her up. Well his mom decided to come back on Sunday. So you can guess where he ended up. At Ow place. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

He called last night many times and today several times. Just to check on me. But as soon as he is with her he totally ignores us. He doesn't call, pickup his cell or check his voicemail. I tried to call a few times before I realized what was going on. After I realized he was probably with her I gave up calling and won't call anymore.

My son's 4th birthday was Thursday. We are having a party for him on Sunday at my SIL house. I am almost sure my WH will not be back in time. This makes me so sad. This girl is worth letting his children down. One day he will realize things and he will have a lot of guilt for what he is doing.

....and that lesson will be his not yours.

Keep loving your children..... they already love you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

SML,

You are growing. I did the same thing you did. I spent so much time from Dday on worrying about where FWH was and what he was doing, and how much my heart was broke that I didn't realize what a terrible wife and person I had become. Not until I went into a good Plan B did I sit down one day and realize who I had become. I had become this selfish monster that wanted my H to live my life for me. I wanted everything to be about me. I don't accept the A as payment for my treatment to him, but it happened. We are both different people now. I have grown and I have changed so much. I fed off of him. He was miserable all the time. The kids just made him even worse. Now he is on day shift and he is like super dad. He does everything with the kids. We do lots as a couple and we spend tons of time just holding hands. I hope the best for you.

The one thing I kept on saying was if he doesn't want to be with me anymore it is okay, I have made huge changes and I can be a better partner now even if with someone else. By the time he wanted to come home, I wasn't sure I wanted him to.

It goes in stagess. You are becoming independent and growing. Let yourself be free to grow into you. Enjoy those kids and love them. They grow so fast.

HINY

HINY,
That's just it I wanted and was trying to get my husband to live his life for me and the kids. Also I was/am very insecure which made me crave attention and affection even more. When my husband would do something he wanted to do, I would make him feel bad or get on his case. I pressured, patronized and made him feel bad when he tried to do something HE wanted to do. Now he feels like he can't reach his goals and dreams in our marriage. He feels our marriage prevents him from this. I can see why he feels this way now.

Before I kept saying what does this OW have that I don't. And things like that. But now I know it's about he she makes him feel. He feels when he talks to her motivated and no pressure. It's not really her. It's how he feels.

Also with the new baby he even feels more obligation and pressure and he sees his goals and dreams fading away. I need to find a way to support his dreams and help motivate him.

I look at myself today. I don't want to be this person I have become. I know the changes I need to make. I know I need to change. I know it will be hard. I just hope it isn't to late. My husband feels he has lost his love for me.

SML,

You sound just like I did before the A. I didn't like him to do things either. I always felt like I was stuck home with the kids and we never did anything. We have both changed so much now. We do alot together, almost everything in fact. We find a sitter and go together. It is like having the M I always wanted now. I wish I had known what I know now back then. The A might not have happened. I wish you the best and you are truly on the right track. Hopefully with the changes you make in yourself your WH will see them with a great plan A (the best you can do with a baby) and he will come out of the fog and come home. The OW here made FWH feel good too. I totally understand where this is coming from. My FWH told me he could tell her anything. In reality he couldn't, but she made him feel good about himself. Something I didn't I guess.


HUGS!

HINY

Morning SML,

I have only a little time so I promise this w/b short. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please remember that the OW looks fun because he and she have no OBLIGATIONS. Trust me, once they choose to be together, the obligations will come full force and he will be in the same boat but this time with kids in multiple places. He is digging himself into a deeper hole. Not better, deeper.

So it is unfair to compare a mother with a carefree single girl. That's like asking a baby to drive a car.

Now plan A is about making changes in you. If you have already done that, you can stop dwelling on your past shortcomings. It is vital you focus on the correct things or you may make yourself fail. You are not a failure so don't burden yourself that way, ok?

If you feel you are done in plan A, then move forward to plan B. If he still has his head up his [censored], then go plan B w/b your safety net.

If he turns around, then plan B will help you be safe until he proves he has earned or is earning your trust back.

Hope this helps.
L.

I, too, see great growth in you, SML. I also hear the caution in Orchid's posts. You are realizing a LOT about how your M got to the state it was in to be so vulnerable to an A. IMO, that is an important step to take. I remember the day H and I talked, one of the first real communications we had after a couple months of separation.

I told H, with great humility/embarassment, about all the things I realized I had done in the past that I regretted. Things I did just once that I was regretful of, and things I realized I had done over and over again that had disrespected H. You know what??? These were all things that my FBF/OW had pointed out to him, as well. During their A. When I told H these things, it took away all OW's power in that area. If she bad-mouthed me again to H about it, what would he say?

"Yeah, I can't believe Spidey does and says those things, either!" Nope, not anymore. After that day, he said things like, "Yeah, Spidey realizes all those things, and is working really hard to change them."

That throws a chink in the A, I tell ya!

You can only control you. Lead by example. Until he comes back to the M though, IMO, you really can't support him or help him. That is just ENABLING him at this point, as Orchid said.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to find a way to support his dreams and help motivate him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a great goal for if/when he comes back to the M and the family. For now, though, your attention needs to be focused on YOU and the kids, not him. He has already taken up too much of you. I understand he had unmet needs, that he wasn't happy, yada yada yada. But running is not the answer. He should finish one relationship before moving onto another. His continuation of the A and selfish behavior, especially now that he knows it is such, is unacceptable. If he wants to carry on the A, he needs to do so elsewhere, IMO. That is just being a MAN. My H realized he didn't want to stop his A on D-day, he moved out. It is inhumane, IMO, to carry on that behavior in front of your family ~ especially a woman in your fragile state of being pregnant and now a new mother.

IMVHO. Keep on keeping on, SML.

Spidey

SML,

I don't know if you read my one post to you about taking care of yourself in the midst of this all? I had a big smile on my face when I read your post realizing the person you've become. Why? Because now you can open the door to yourself and be the person you want to be.

Try to look at the blessings you do have in your life. Do things that make you happy.

Thank God MB is here I wish I would've known about it when my first marriage was ending because of an A. I did have James Dobson's Love Must Be Tough and that right there helped me keep my dignity and self respect. I remember my Aunt telling me that my xh just didn't respect me, at first I didn't agree with it but after reading that book, my eyes were wide open. I wrote a letter to my ex and that was it. I learned a lot about myself and felt so good. It was pure hell the first 8 months, but I became a much better person, he saw it himself.

I remarried and well we are in recovery, this story is way different but I'm still learning about myself and seeing how it affects my life.

Stay strong and work on you!!!

Thanks for all your comments. I guess I was just putting my thoughts down. I was afraid to post this. Afraid to get 2x4's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I did not do a plan A at all. I thought I did but looking back I was pregnant hurting and miserable. And I LB every single day. I was in his face, following him around, crying and angry about OW,R and constantly asking him when he was going to stop. For 6 months he was wanting to try in our marriage. But I think I helped push him to where things are today.

He is back home. He did not bring his friend. He told him to stay in North Carolina till after the New Year. Today he said he may tell him to stay down there till I am not in the picture. Which means when my husband gets out on his own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But I realize that may be the only way he will really realize anything. If he ever does.

I will write more later. Just wanted to say thanks for your comments and advice. I feel normal now. Especially hearing HINY say she thought and felt the same things. I just don't know where to begin with the changes. I know it will take some time.

Plan A seems very overwhelming, but take it step by step...

1. Realize the worst LB you are using.
2. Apologize for it, and talk with WH about ways you can get better (ask for his help, or tell him what you will do instead)
3. Every time you LB in this way, stop as soon as you realize, apologize, and tell him what you will do next time.
4. Look at the other LBs. Cut out ALL LB's the same way...
5. Ask him to fill out EN questionnaire, or think about what his top 3 EN's are.
6. Look for ways you can fulfill those top three EN's.
7. Spend AT LEAST 15 hours a week together, undivided time (without kids hanging around...) Time to be creative here...

SML:

It's not you...it's him. he has problems within himself. If he doesn't fix those don't expect permanent change from him. Sure you shouldn't LB and yadda yadda, but you don't have to change yourself completely and sacrafice alot for this man who seems like he won't even appreciate it.

Buena suerte...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by XangelX:
<strong> SML:

It's not you...it's him. he has problems within himself. If he doesn't fix those don't expect permanent change from him. Sure you shouldn't LB and yadda yadda, but you don't have to change yourself completely and sacrafice alot for this man who seems like he won't even appreciate it.

Buena suerte... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Xangel:

Uhhhh, your post is not exactly in line with MB principles now is it? The premise for SML is to change those things about herself that are "not good", so that the WH will see what great changes she made, etc,... and choose to get his EN's filled from her. While SML did not make him have an affair, she didn't fill needs so he chose to find an OW to fills his needs.

Hopefully, SML will do enough changing with all of the things she feels she needs to change so that her WH will come back and give her another chance and allow her to win him back. She needs to give the man a lot of admiration, respect, and not raise "issues" that would upset him and be seen as confrontational or judgemental, etc... It is all such a great idea I must say. I hope that SML WH will give her the chance to win him back someday. I hope he can see the changes she makes and will give her another chance to meet his EN's, etc. I guess it is good that she came to this realization before divorce happened so that her WH will come back to the marriage and children.

<small>[ December 20, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Uhhhh, your post is not exactly in line with MB principles now is it? The premise for SML is to change those things about herself that are "not good", so that the WH will see what great changes she made, etc,... and choose to get his EN's filled from her. While SML did not make him have an affair, she didn't fill needs so he chose to find an OW to fills his needs.

Okkk I'm suprised you called me out on this lemonman, since when do you follow MB principles hmmm?

I agree she should fix those things like nagging, and so forth, things that might make her unbecoming to her hudband, but what I'm saying is that IMHO I don't think she should sacrifice a whole lot because her husband (from her descriptions) doesn't seem like a very nice man, who is even trying to salvage his marriage. So what about if your like a perfect wife, and your husband or bf still cheats? You know there is scenarios like that..

also lemonman this was once your quote: "What are you saving in your marriage if in the process your losing yourself?" (well it was something like that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by XangelX:
<strong> Uhhhh, your post is not exactly in line with MB principles now is it? The premise for SML is to change those things about herself that are "not good", so that the WH will see what great changes she made, etc,... and choose to get his EN's filled from her. While SML did not make him have an affair, she didn't fill needs so he chose to find an OW to fills his needs.

Okkk I'm suprised you called me out on this lemonman, since when do you follow MB principles hmmm?

I agree she should fix those things like nagging, and so forth, things that might make her unbecoming to her hudband, but what I'm saying is that IMHO I don't think she should sacrifice a whole lot because her husband (from her descriptions) doesn't seem like a very nice man, who is even trying to salvage his marriage. So what about if your like a perfect wife, and your husband or bf still cheats? You know there is scenarios like that..

also lemonman this was once your quote: "What are you saving in your marriage if in the process your losing yourself?" (well it was something like that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Come on X, do I need to spell this out for you. Sorry for your confusion from my sarcastic post. I am in one of those moods today.....just probably a tad too sarcastic for this board on a Monday and if I continue posting in this vain, by tonight I will be getting a nasty post from Justus banning me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . You know me better than this X, right?

LM

SML,

I see you willing to make all kinds of changes...and he willing to make none. Okay, so your Plan A was far from perfect...you were pregnant and cranky and didn't do things as well as you should have. Now he's let you know just how you failed....and he's willing to "let" you try to do better....but is he willing to stop all contact while you try? This has been going on a long long time SML. If you do a Plan A NOW....please....make it a short one because unless he is willing to end contact...doing a great Plan A right may actually extend the fence sitting and cake eating. Stop love busting FOR SURE!....but please do NOT try and fill needs while this man is blantantly visiting his lover...it will set you up for more heartache. If I were your coach...I wouldn't keep you in Plan A beyond three weeks....long enough for him to see the marriage and you are attractive...no more. This has gone on far too long....and you are far too willing to try everything except the strategy most likely to work....Plan B. It's been my experience that the strongest and most loving women....can always find something "wrong" with their Plan A. If done for any length of time...this will enable rather than end the affair.

<small>[ December 20, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Lol....ok Lemonman just checking...


I second starfish's post...

My biggest problem is the fact that I realize what I did wrong in our marriage. I know some of things I need to change. It's just hard getting out of old habits.

I guess I need advice. While my husband is living here. When he goes out to call the OW and I know what he is doing. How do I handle it? Usually I tell him it hurts me what he is doing and that I wish he wouldn't disrespect me. Should I even say that or should I just say nothing?

I am not a patient person. I can't seem to stop R talks and talking about OW. But I know I need to. I know this is pushing him more towards her. He feels pressured and he hates feeling like he can't do what he wants. So the more I say it's wrong or to please stop he wants to do the opposite.

I know I cannot change overnight. I realize there will be days I mess completely up. But I think it was a major step realizing what I did wrong and what I can work on in myself.