my WW met the OM tonight (and didn't return until 3:30 this morning.)
I suspect she ended the affair this evening (or at least tried.)
I tried callingher a couple of times since I am at work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and it was late.
When she finally called, when she was home. She sounded like she was crying.
I asked her if she had been crying and she responded, what does it matter I do that every night.
assuming my wife had ended the affair, how do I talk to her when I see her again?
Do I ask her what happpened?
Do I wait until she is ready to tell me?
Do I try and console her?
Do I pressure her to answer question that I have?
advice appreciated!!!

F4MW,

Let's take a look at your questions:

F4MW: Do I ask her what happpened?

Orchid: She is a WS, what do you expect her to tell you? The truth? Even if it is laced with the truth, do you need to know at the expense of being put down, yelled at, humiliated, embaressed, angered, etc.?

F4MW:Do I wait until she is ready to tell me?

Orchid: If you can, it w/b better. Don't count on her telling you the truth even when she does. Remember the WS agenda is often not the same as the BS.

F4MW:Do I try and console her?

Orchid: Should you console a WS? If so what type of consoling could a BS give a WS? The WS wants t/b selfishly assured they can continue as a WS. Can a BS do that? No.

F4MW:Do I pressure her to answer question that I have?

Orchid: If you do, then what. In fact what happens when uneven pressure is put on a hot radiator?

What you need to realize is that her info is one way to her and another way to you. As much as you think you need to know, knowing w/b worse. I know this may not make much sense but for you right now, knowing even the entire truth, isn't going to make either of you feel good. Not now.

Later and under much different circumstances and of her own volition w/b a much better time for you to hear it. Also her attitude will play a big part on how it affects you.

BTW, she didn't end it.... yet.... this was just some drama acting out. The real end will come much later.

L.

<small>[ December 19, 2004, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid what do I do know?!?!?!?
I see things progressing.. but the closer I see my M going into recovery the closer I am to just giving up. Everything you post makes complete sense.. but it seems when things are getting better.. they're really not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
(btw I truly appreciate your honest responses!)
I don't want to give up.. but even though I see (or think I see) progress the more I want to quit.
I've even drafted my Plan B letter. argh! that was rough!

I'm starting to think I'm torturing myself with no reward in my future.
I really need reassurance I am doing the right thing!!

(sorry to put this pressure on you and all the other MB'ers who read this!!!)

F4MW,

No pressure, I assure you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am not seeing NO HOPE, what I am seeing is you being used and emotionally abused (toyed with) by a WS.

I don't like that one bit. Been there done that..... from the school of hard knocks. If I can get 1 BS to understand that sooner than I did, that w/b an accomplishment. ....and they have. There are BS' here that learn it sooner than others. Each learns at their own pace.

Plan B is not a spooky or bad thing. Not for a BS. Not sure why sooo many BS' are afraid of plan B. Maybe it's like broccoli or something good for you but yucky to eat. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just want you t/b safe. That MB mom in me kicks in at these late hours. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Broccolli's good though!!! lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh yeah F4 MW

with cheese sauce, black pepper and just a hint of lime juice Mmmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

but listen to Orchid ANYWAY!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

She is right as I've told you before your WW is manipulating you sorry to say. Maybe its starting to fall apart but watch her actions NOT her words.

<small>[ December 19, 2004, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: aussieswife ]</small>

FFMW4- speaking of BTDT: I've been ooth (WS/BS recently), not heavily fogged with 'soulmate' crap, but heavily fogged with justification for what I'd done - I would have NEVER told my H the truth unless I'd already (foggily) accepted that I could live without him (divorce must be eminant) and that I could stick and twist that dagger of truth DEEP (b/c I had formerly believed the only person who cheats and then tells is cruel and selfish, so I'd have to be a really mean person to do it) - all BECAUSE I was deep in the FOG that I HAD COMPLETE CONTROL of myself and him and everything.

The point is - WS has to rewrite everything in their heads to be able to do what they do. Everyone's trying to warn you of that. You CANNOT expect truth for a while. It takes a while to "unwrite" the story... You can only provide an environment conducive to your own mental and emotional health and to your WS seeing a relatively safe and peaceful place to be reminded of and to regret losing. WITHIN your preset boundaries!

WS does not participate in rational thinking.

My own WS could not think clearly throughout Contact. I couldn't control the NC thing (me control? no - don't allow WS to control it) until two things happened for us: through exercising a loose Plan A (didn't dawn on me until much later that a written plan to 'hang your hat on' is better), realized I CAN be a Better Person for him or for myself or for another in the future and SO, can go on without him, if I must. And, finally doing full exposure. Full exposure does not allow them to continue the fantasy and secrecy and the excitement freely. My H was deeply, emotionally, involved - his own ego and emotions thickly tied into the drama/secrecy/fantasy.

Without both, I am sure this beginning rebuilding would've never progressed as far as it has!

They will tell you it's you, but it's not. There may even be some modicum of truth in saying it was your fault - especially with very clever WS (did it myself), But an A is ALWAYS about themselves. Not you, not the OP. There's a story they built to be able to do what they have done and do. All the advise you get is about stabilizing yourself - for you - it's about stabilizing yourself for the potential work ahead, whether with your S or without (see the posts from both!) It's to protect you from the truly awful things a person will do to avoid REALITY and CHANGE.

Lots and lots of GREAT posters and advice and empathy here. It is a Godsend!

Make a PLAN - it gives you strength and peace when the world is coming to pieces about you (so it seems, but you do indeed get through it!) It also gives you a reference point to prevent you from making potentially terrible mistakes and missteps. Those things coudl still happen, but it minimizes your potential for them.

I could fill pages (as I have and others have) with mistakes, accidental great steps, on-purpose great steps, and anecdotal observations.

What is so wierd, is we feel like we are unique and alone, but the more you read, the more it is all the same. Both for the hurter and the hurt-ee.

My personal learning has had to do with learning to emote. I've been closed off for so long and he went a very long time before making the choices he did. I don't excuse it, but now I understand it. I understand why I did what I did, too.

Hope my unqualified and inexperienced observations help...

<small>[ December 19, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

Just my 02. cents here:

In my sitch ww started her A in May ( 6-7 weeks od phone talk only) before it went PA and then Back to EA. And no i'm not thread jacking YET..LOL

Well anyway, My ww is on day 27 of NO Contact and now being December she is just now able to tell me the real truth about her A, everything before Dec1 st was laced with lies and half truths. We are taking it day by day and trust me somedays she tries to take back the real truth. I feel that by day 120 of nc I should and hope to have the whole truth with no laced lies.

Ws's sometimes feel remorse for what they have done and they want to tell us the truth but it takes feeling safe to do that. I for one always got pissy when she told me the truth and always through it up in her face on the next big fight. I have now gotten better and made her feel safe.

Only ask for the truth if you really and I mean really can handle it. I new that my love for my wife was enough to help me through the truth and it did. I wish you the best. And Orchid is the best, your lucky to have her great insight...

Thanks for the advice..
here's the update. (nothing really)

She told me they decided to take "a break" until they could both work on their own issues. (that made me sick to here.)
In fact I almost through up, I was so upset about her ridiculous comments that I couldn't speak to her. She said she thought she could end it all together but couldn't since she has to work with him. (again just made me sick.)
But tonight she started looking for a new job. (positive sign?)
WW also said, I'm sorry this is not what you wanted to hear. I thought this was a sign of progression.
my response: yea, it's a small progression but it's not enough.
I was just so heart broken by her lack of care about the marriage. I don't think she ever understood what it's like to be married. That she thinks I'm a "super"boyfriend instead of a husband. (that was a friend's comment which I kinda liked.)
I just can't look at her right now, I am completely emotionally exhausted.. I just laid on the couch and cried.
I still see a light at the end of the tunnel.. it just seems to get further and further away... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fighting 4 my wife:
<strong> ...She told me they decided to take "a break" until they could both work on their own issues. (that made me sick to here.)
In fact I almost through up, I was so upset about her ridiculous comments that I couldn't speak to her. She said she thought she could end it all together but couldn't since she has to work with him. (again just made me sick.)
.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again with the broccoli, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Sorry.... just had to rib you. Oops another food reference. Ok, I'll stop.

Sorry you got ill but that's what fog babble does to the sane. So at least you know you are sane. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

See why communication with the WS s/b kept limited? Even when it is a neccessity, it is hard to swallow. Sorry....did it again.

Ok, we have all had our up chuck moments with the WS. If they only knew..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Since you are exhausted from all that heave ho'..... you need to take some time for you. ok? Quality stuff, nothing you can swallow in a pill. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Let us know what that means 2 U.

take care,
L.

I know.. it's just I feel like I can't bring myself to talk to her about all the things I want to talk about because it will go no where. Even reverse babble is too exhausting for me. In fact I almost gave her my Plan B letter tonight, and I don't know if I didn't because I believe things are moving in the right direction (no matter how slowly) or because I need her car since mine broke down Sunday morning.. (I hope it's not the selfish side of me needed the use of the other car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )
She did say again today that she wants go to IC with someone who's covered by our insurance.
Maybe I should do all the grunge work for her so she doesn't have to wait any longer?

Nope, her healing won't go far if you put the brunt of the work on you. As funny as this illness is, less is more. The less you do the more she heals.

Remember you are dealing with a PT WS working t/b a FT WS. You want the reverse, to eliminate the WS t/b replaced by a FT W.

So take care of your W (when she shows up) but let the WS do her own dirty work.

As for the car, if you need it and you have rights to it, that's not selfish....that's survival. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fighting 4 my wife:
<strong>I thought this was a sign of progression.
my response: yea, it's a small progression but it's not enough.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, pal, do you want to do this soon or do you want to do this right?

Hmmmmmm?

You are being extremely impatient.

Is patience one of the Plan A faults you identified that you need to improve?

Slow down, bud. The only thing you can do to move this along faster is to expose the affair to anyone influential in her life and demonstrate your Plan A improvements. All other attempts to force it along faster will be counterproductive.

<small>[ December 20, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Yea you're right. Things are getting better (though it is hard to see at times.. with it moving slowly.)

question: My wife and I had a good evening together. Saw a free movie and then she had to drop me off at work. As usual we really don't know how to say goodbye anymore. We kind of looked at her and I couldn't tell if I should have kissed her goodby or not.
any thoughts on that situation?