</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> accurate or not. I am trying, and you all make fun of me. I do my best to follow what the Harleys have laid out. I mess up, I am human. I think I am doing what is right and then find out I messed up. Why is it as soon as something is posted by me I hear that I should not be here, that I am looking for something that can not be found here. What is it you feel I am looking for? I am not trying to start a fight here, I am just wondering. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ,

*I* am the one that said that...because I happen to feel that it is true. You want HIM fixed...you want HIM to change...you want to find ways to change HIM...you want someone to tell you how to make HIM better. THAT IS NOT HERE.

You post about the way that he is treating you...the things that he does to you...the way that you feel...and what are we supposed to say... "this too shall pass"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You are being emotionally, verbally, and PHYSICALLY abused. MB does not help in those siutations. You can plan A your [censored] off...and it gives him license to treat you even more heinously. The chapters of your life on this board are clear to the rest of us...because we are on the outside looking in. You are on the inside...surrounded by your own fog.

Do not get all upset because people are telling you hard core truths...and no longer sugarcoating it.

committed

First off I never asked anyone to sugar coat anything. However there are tackful ways of sharing how you feel. I came here orignally to find a way to help me out of this mess, maybe even as you say to fix him. More so for a fix for us. I stay because I find myself stronger with every day, because I can post here, get insight, and 2x4'd when needed. This is a constant for me. Maybe my SSDD is getting old for you here, however to me it is rarely SSDD, it is a reality, it is something I deal with on a daily basis, some days are good, others are not. But I know I always have here, and presently I feel I am being chased out. That may not be accurate but that is how I feel.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> I came here orignally to find a way to help me out of this mess, maybe even as you say to fix him. More so for a fix for us.

WELL, AS YOU ARE FINDING OUT, THERE CAN NEVER BE A "FIX" FOR "HIM" OR "US" WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN ABUSER LIKE YOUR WH. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN THE PRESENT STATE. TH MARRIAGE BUILDERS PROGRAM , DESPITE IT'S GODLY FOLLOWING, CAN NEVER (AND IT DOES NOT TRY TO)FIX YOUR HUSBAND OR MARRIAGE IN YOUR CASE PRESENTLY.

I feel I am being chased out. That may not be accurate but that is how I feel. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SORRY YOU ARE FEELING THIS WAY, IF PEOPLE DIDN'T CARE THEY WOULD NOT POST TO YOU. I THINK YOU WILL KNOW THAT YOU ARE BEING "CHASED OUT" WHEN YOU START SEEING NO RESPONSES TO YOUR THREADS. THE PEOPLE WHO POST ON THESE BOARDS ARE SOME OF THE MOST GENUNIELY BEAUTIFUL, KIND HEARTED PEOPLE THAT THIS WORLD CAN OFFER. NOONE MEANS ILL WILL, BUT POSTING "TACTFULLY" TO YOU NOW IS LIKELY TO HAVE NO EFFECT. SORRY, BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH. PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT YOU, BUT YOU WILL PERHAPS LOSE PEOPLE WHO COMMENT ON YOUR CASE, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT AND DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE. EVEN THE MOST PATIENT OF POSTERS, WILL STOP POSTING. PEOPLE WANT THE BEST FOR YOU.....UNFORTUNATELY, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT AND FEEL THE SAME FOR YOURSELF....YET <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

LEMONMAN

I have been taking and following advise. As best I can. It is a delicate situation, as many are here. If I were on the out side looking in as you all are i can see where you are coming from. Thing is it is not so black and white here. I can not just up and leave. I see good in my H. However I do, do, do see what you are saying, that is why I am setting up boundaries, I am doing things to make me happy. I AM listening, does it not show? Is the only solution out there for me divorce? I am hopeing that by standing up for myself, and setting boundaries will help guide my Marriage (H) in the right direction. If it continues to be the SSDD then I do plan on getting out.

Dear KMEJ, your situation is one that grabs the attention of the reader. People post to you because they care. Seeing your photo also has made you a bit more real (to me anyway). On your bad days, your WH sounds like an abusive wife-beater and none of us want to see you stuck with a guy like that. On your good days, you see a glimmer of hope but even on those days, you bear the scars of his previous behaviour. Physical and mental abuse stay with you forever and I believe the big picture here is that he won't change. But you are growing everyday and sound like you are changing for the better.

Join the frigging gym. You deserve it. We are all outraged that he refuses to allow it but continues to indulge himself and his hobbies. NOT FAIR. My big question is where the hell, in between two jobs and running a home, will you find the time to get there and work-out? There are only 24 hrs in a day and you sound like you run on pure adrenaline. I know all mums are busy but with 3 small 'tornados', you will totally burn yourself out. Do they have yoga classes - sound like you need some kind of peace in your life. Good luck. TT

Thanks for posting tummytuck! When would I find the time? GREAT QUESTION!!! The thing is that it would be for me, make me feel better about me, I would make the time. There is a daycare at the gym that is included in my membership and the kids LOVE it there (we have had a few day passes). If I could not go after work, I would go before, I already get up and meet friends every morning to walk, so I could just go to the gym instead. I just want to do something for myself, as I am not happy with my body after 3 kids. I am lonely and depressed alot and have been eating myself into oblivian- which of course has made me gain gain gain- YUCK. I do not look in the mirror and see an attractive person, I see someone repulsive- and that is part of my problem, no one elses. I want to go to the gym to help me in my self esteem area. I want my H to tell me I am beautiful, or at least that I look nice. I ask him why he rarely ever says that. I can count on 1 finger in the last 3 years how many times he has told me with out my asking that I look nice and it was about a month ago- actually it was the day that picture on the Photo Tread was taken. H says he will tell me I look nice when I look nice, so I guess only once in the last 3 years. I want to change that- I want to look good, I want the body I had before my little tornadoes. I am busy- but I find time to be on here, so maybe a little less time on here, and a little time in the wieght room and on a stair machine- who knows. I am obsessed with the show the Biggest Loser- it is a good motivater for me.

I want H to support me in my decision to join the gym. IF he does not support me he will make fun of it every chance he gets, and will say it is "gay" and make me feel bad if I chose to go to the gym instead of be home with him. I just want his support- that would help me stick with it, instead of making me feel guilty.

Hi KMEJ,

I read thru this thread quickly, so I may have missed someone else saying essentially the same thing as I'm about to say.

From what I read, there is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for your H "telling you" that you can't join the gym.

I don't know your story, but what INSTANTLY comes to mind is a very insecure man that wants nothing LESS than his wife going to work out in a public place.

IMO, it has absolutely nothing to do with money.

It reeks of a controlling, insecure man.

Just Do It. JOIN THE GYM! You're gonna feel great. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

KMEJ, I just had a fun idea.

How 'bout all your friends here give you a nice Christmas present, and pay for your gym membership?

One way... you register with PayPal (it's free), and I'll pay my share of your gym membership every month for the next year or two.

I have a feeling there might be a few others here that would do the same thing. How much is it? Not sure we can do the PayPal thing for a dollar or two per transaction, but it'd be fun to try <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So... THEN you can tell your H, since you "can't afford it," that your friends are paying your gym membership.

It'll be interesting to see how he reacts to that...

I'm quite serious!

You are so sweet. Really you made me smile and tear up at the same time. What a hunny you are. I am so touched really.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are so sweet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, that I am... in fact, my WW told me that before she moved out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...

BUT, please -- PLEASE don't misconstrue this as a charity event...

It's about helping your husband wake up and realize what he has (you), and it's about helping you get to the gym, and it's about thinking outside the box a little, and...

besides, it sounds like you may have missed the part that went like this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm quite serious!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(btw... I'll accept the "thanks, but no thanks" on one condition... that you join the gym... for YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

TQT-

You sound like a great person. Really. I do not know your story very well. Would you mind shareing with me.

I am really touched that you would offer to pay my membership- but I could never ask that of anyone. As much as I would love to take you up on that offer- I would feel badly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not know your story very well. Would you mind shareing with me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, yes I would mind... I wouldn't share my story with my worst enemy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But I HAVE read a lot of your posts. You're all over the place helping everyone!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really touched that you would offer to pay my membership- but I could never ask that of anyone. As much as I would love to take you up on that offer- I would feel badly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ... feel badly?!?

Would you believe me if I told you that I was just thinking... God forbid, if someone invents a Pain-Seeking Missile, this site is gonna be the first to go!

Going to the gym is about feeling GOOD. Going to the gym because you WANT to go is about feeling REALLY good. And going to the gym because you DESERVE and SHOULD go to the gym...well... that's off the charts (and maybe we could send the missile off course a couple degrees!)

I worked out at home for about 8 years -- we built a nice little "gym" in the room above the garage, and it worked out great for both of us.
When WW decided to pursue greener pastures.... I decided to kick my workouts up a notch and join the local health club... it was kinda weird after working out at home for so long... but now I look forward to it every day. It's helped to keep me sane thru everything that's been going on....

So, seriously, ummm... just out of curiousity.... how much is the gym membership per month? And are there "initiation fees" or no?

I would feel badly because I would be taking money from someone, and not earning my keep.

I have looked into membership at the local Lifetime, and it is $55 initiation, and $50 a month- however with my health insurence after the first month, if I went 8 time a month then my health insurence would mail me a $20 check.. Great deal if you ask me- but H said that after taxes IF I went the 8 times it is still aroung $30. I guess it does not count as much as the DSL I am currently enjoying.

So why is it you will not share your story? Sometimes it helps you know. To talk. Unlike me, you can not shut me up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Funny thing is most of my co-workers and family and friends do not have a clue what is really going on in this house. Friends know that H and I argue, Family knows we are in recovery, and when we were seperated H was not so careful and left bruses, so they now know about his temper- but as of late no one knows much. The good thing is his temper has been pretty level lately- only a few flair ups, and most of them are just verbal. Thing is- they are not getting to me to much anymore. I do think that I am getting stronger, and his tantrams are not bothering me as much- so maybe that is why they are getting less and less. Today he actually joked with me on the phone instead of hanging up on me. Progress? Maybe- or is it he feels me slipping away? One never knows.

Thank you for talking with me. Please post to me again real soon, and consider shareing your story.

Hey KMEJ!

Again, Merry Christmas. Truly..I hope your holiday is superb!

It's funny. I've actually written a story about exactly the situation that you talked about here.

The premise is a bit different: the husband buys his wife a bowling ball for a mother's day gift. He says it's from their daughter - so...of course the mome can't complain about it.

The mom retaliates by buying HIM some lingerie for his birthday - again, saying that daughter had picked it out.

The whole thing escalates until, at the end, the mom is bowling and smoking cuban cigars while the father is cross-dressing.

Just some insight into my warped imagination.

I love your sense of humor, quite funny!! Thanks for shareing!

KMEJ,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Understand, the reason posters have been jumping on this is anger - at your H!!!!

My X used to pull a lot of this stuff on me - all my friends and co-workers and such were boring, stupid, or both, and that's why he wouldn't go to parties or gatherings with them. But I was expected to go with him to the one's he wanted to go to. He never said I couldn't go by myself to the others, but believe me, he found ways to make me feel guilty if I did.

I'd buy something new to wear with hopes of him liking it and complementing me. When I'd show it off to him, I'd get "eh" as a comment. But if I wore something he didn't care for, he'd make fun of it. And then he started complaining that I never tried to look nice for him.

I'm a very intelligent person, and I would have thought I could NEVER have gotten caught in that kind of a trap. If I'd seen anyone else putting up with that kind of stuff, I'd have said they were stupid. But it sneaks up on you, and you don't even realize how demoralized you've become. It's taken me well over a year to get back to being the me I used to be again. I didn't even realize how badly my self-esteem had suffered because of the stuff he'd done.

He didn't hit me. He didn't yell at me or even directly berate me. But he still found ways to demean everything and everyone that was important to me. I play piano, and play keyboard in our band at church, and get compliments from people all the time. But all I ever heard from him was that I didn't play as good as XXX (fill in a name here - he had a list!) and that I didn't really play anything he enjoyed anyway. When I tried to play something I knew he liked, he told me I wasn't really very good at playing that style. I like to sing to the radio, and though my voice isn't great, it isn't horrible. But when we were in the car and I would start singing with a song, he would either turn up the radio volume, or change the station.

It is about control. It is about keeping you in line, and doing things the way HE wants them done. He may not even recognize that that's why he does these things, but that's what it is about all the same.

And people on here just get frustrated because they see how abusive some of these things are, and they want desperately for you to stand up for yourself. Following MB principles doesn't mean putting up with abuse.

And I've been there. I know it's hard - you don't see it as abuse. I had my mother tell me flat out that my now-x was emotionally abusing me, and I completely denied it. I mean, none of what he did seemed THAT bad. Until I started really adding up everything that he did. And even then, it wasn't until I started talking about it with friends, and started hearing from them that the stuff I was telling them was horrible and outrageous. And I was hearing this from people in my church who have helped women through physically abusive relationships, and who wouldn't have hesitated to tell me if I was just being too sensitive.

And people here sound somewhat harsh about this because they know - when someone is abusive, it doesn't stop until the person being abused MAKES it stop.

And I know too... you tell yourself how wonderful he is about some things, and it's only these few things that are a problem, and that you need to be understanding. If it were only that he were clueless about gift-giving, I would agree. But it isn't that. When he crosses over into telling you that something that is important to you is "gay" and is a waste, it is abuse. You want stupid things, and the underlying, unsaid message is that because you want things that are stupid, you are stupid. And you need to do what he says, because you aren't capable of handling real life and judging what's good and what isn't.

I feel so much for you, and want to scream "Stop it and stand up for yourself!" Because I've been there. Because I look back now, and ask myself why I didn't tell him how I felt about all those things he said that put me down. Except sometimes I did - and there was always an excuse about why it didn't really mean what I thought it meant. But no matter how many times I told him those things hurt me, he would make excuses, and continue to say them.

It was never about me. It was about him, and his insecurities, and his wanting to be in control. And it didn't stop because I let him continue to do it. There was a lot of backlash when I did stand up for myself finally - I'm still having to deal with that backlash, even though everything is supposed to be settled. I've gotten things to where he can't really contact me much, and I ignore what contact he does make. I can see when he tries to contact me that he's still saying and doing the same things. I had to put up with the abuse getting worse through our divorce.

People here are getting frustrated because they want you to stand up for yourself. Because no one likes a bully, and whether you see it or not, that's what your H is.

Oh, I could go on, but this has been too long already. But I know what you're going through on this... I know sometimes I even felt like I was going crazy, because his excuses always made his behavior sound reasonable to me, even when I knew it wasn't. And he would make me feel horrible when I did stand up for myself - would practically beat himself up and say how he was a horrible person and he didn't know why I ever put up with him. It would make me feel like a nag and a monster for "picking" on him, and for months afterward, I would not say anything when he told me stuff I liked was dumb, or would refuse to help around the house, or would go off and do things without talking about them with me first. Why? Because I didn't want to make HIM feel bad!

It's control. Some people will do or say anything it takes to gain and keep that control.

Oh and Merry Christmas to you as well!

Hi KMEJ,

Most of my story is in: "Separated/Plan A: How Do I Respond to This?"

Word of warning if you choose to read it... Spidey and I are very "thorough." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So WHAT will you do about the gym?? The offer still stands, btw!

Do you believe that as far as your H goes, it's really about the money?

Or do you think he is "threatened" by it in some way(s)? Or... is it strictly a control thing?

There MUST be a solution...

Thanks Tqt-

I am not sure what the real draw back is for h and me joining the gym. I think he feels threatened, I think it is a loss of control, I think it is him wanting me home. I also think he does not want to part with money unless it is to his own pleasure. I have no real idea where money is at for us. I do know that I work hard and I should be able to spend some money on me.

I would love to take you up on your offer, wish I could, but I can hear H now- "Oh I see you got one of your boyfriends to pay for you!" and "How are you repaying that one?". I really want to join- I am waiting to see what his promotion brings to the table, and then going from there.

KMEJ,

If I recall correctly, you have two jobs.

Surely, you can take $30 of that income each month - money that YOU earned through YOUR work -and buy yourself a gym membership. Normally, I am a staunch advocate of couples sharing their oncome and making financial decisions together.

But in this case, you have a right to pay yourself first!

Money isn't the real issue here, though. As other people have pointed out...your H isn't opposed to your gym membership because of what it will cost. He wants to continue to control you.