On HATE LOVE's thread you wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Pray tell, who ,when and how is someone going to tell these children that their mother does not give a rats *ss about their health both mental and physical. I agree it is not Hate Love that should do the exposure but these pat answers sound just way too touchy feely, cliched with no REAL solution to a horrible problem. Let's start another thread on how the CHILDREN found out. I would bet it would make us all vomit having to face that type of reality.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm with you, man, on this.

If exposing an affair to an infidel's family exposes it to his/her children as "collateral damage" - oh well. The infidel has done the damage and the exposer is doing the absolutely best thing to end the mess.

Yep, exposure is not good for the children. And continuation of the affair is? Give me a break.

And what better time than a family holiday?

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

IMHO, springing the fact on kids about an affair on Christmas Eve is unfeeling and evil. For the rest of their lives, that is what they wil remember for the Holidays. Geeze, let the kids have another day of innocence. Especially if they are little.

I think kids should be told but in a humane and thoughtful way. My kids know. I protected them until it came to a point where the lies were too much. I know my kids pretty well. When my daughter said, on Thanksgiving night that if her dad had to work on Christmas Eve, she'd be really mad, I knew that the coverup had to stop. My teenager had it mostly figured out before I said a word.

Now that my kids know, they are a great source of support. I wouldn't have done it to little kids though.

One of the things my WW throws up to me is that our adult children know. She wanted me to protect her with this information. The oldest found out the next day after d day when she asked why is Dad crying and my wife told her. The oldest son was told by both of us and the youngest son already had it figured out from the computer stuff. Children just like any one else need to know the truth. I won't lie for my wife or anyone else.

Affairs are a tragedy for all involved.

It's just AWFUL!!

I just wanted to say this in feeling our collective pain.

IMHO, springing the fact on kids about an affair on Christmas Eve is unfeeling and evil. For the rest of their lives, that is what they wil remember for the Holidays. Geeze, let the kids have another day of innocence. Especially if they are little.

I agree whole heartedly with this. Sure the kids have to know eventually, but do little kids need the sordid details? NO - little kids can't process information like adults can. There world is very small, it includes mom, dad & siblings. It would be very easy to crush it worse than it already has been.

Please spare the little ones any pain you can. What good does it do them to know there beloved parent is a liar and a cheat?

Maybe as an adult, if they ask why the divorce but I would even spare them then if I could. I believe in honesty but lets use a little common sense here.


If you are going to break their hearts and shatter their universe, than you had best make damn sure you are doing it in the safest possible way for them and for the right reasons.

I will never tell my daughter her dad was a liar and a cheat and that this is why we are not together, unless as an adult she needs to know. It would break her happy little heart.

*******edited to protect the innocent**********

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> [b]Do you have little children Lemon?

If you are going to break their hearts and shatter their universe, than you had best make damn sure you are doing it in the safest possible way for them and for the right reasons.

I will never tell my daughter her dad was a liar and a cheat and that this is why we are not together, unless as an adult she needs to know. It would break her happy little heart. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">uhh, no, but why that question to me out of nowhere?????????????

Oh Lemon, I am so sorry. I fear I got you mixed up in my head with somebody else.

It must feel like pick on Lemonman day.

Good grief I am finding myself saying I'm sorry right and left today. It's either all this snow, or some left over childhood strife I've got bubbling up right below the surface because of this festive holiday season. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I read the title but then I subconsiously switched the character to you. And I know Cymanca doesn't have children, so what was I thinking??????

Carry on Lemonman - back to your very honest and caring advice. (and I mean that sincerely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Don't ya'll go gettin' yer knickers in a knot.

I am not advocating exposing directly to small children as first line exposure. Just that exposure ought to be accomplished and if the kids happen to get caught up in it, that's part of the cost of an affair. If it happens to be on Christmas Eve, oh well.

How many affairs may have been avoided if the WS parent knew that their kids would very, very, very likely would find out about it?

We can only guess.

Affairs are ugly. Kids learning their Dad/Mom is a lying cheat is ugly. Get it ALL out in the open, no matter what day it is. The less the affair is protected, the sooner it'll end, if it's going to.

WAT

If it happens to be on Christmas Eve, oh well.

Oh WAT, you poor thing. You grew up in hell didn't you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I sure hope you find a good use for all those coals you are going to find in your stocking this Saturday morning.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

This whole issue brings up a question that I have been internally wrestling with for awhile.

My wife and I have teenage kids. They are very astute. They were never told however, ever since the affair, they have expressed deep anger towards my wife. Attitude can't be explained away as typical teenage behavior.

Just the other day I was having a talk with one of them after a "disagreement" with mom. I was asked pointedly, "Did Mom cheat on you?"

Needless to say I was caught completely off guard. My instinct was to lie but I didn't know what they knew. I probably should have said," you need to talk to Mom about that."

I ended up partially telling the truth and partiall lying. I told her," if you define cheating as having a friend of the opposite sex that becomes closer to you than your spouse, then yes. If it's the traditional definition then, no."

I lied not to protect my wife, but I have teenage girls and I was worried that they have enough pressure on them (thanks to all of the high school issues) without shouldering more burden.

Any thoughts? On what I said as well as future conversations????

Ok this leads to more questions.

The OM and his W have younger children. I think like 10ish and 6ish.

I hate to admit this in the public forum but I will for the sake of discussion:

Now that my kids know I feel as though someday his should. My wife is no longer on the pedestal so why should he be? They've lost some of their innocence.

I guess I'm just venting a bit here.

Mac
b

And how did your daughter take it? Did she believe what you said, or does she know that it wasn't wholly true?

In future conversations I would be very honest now that she as asked and she is not a child. I would however try my best to not paint an ugly picture of her mother as much as possible. There are ways to explain things to children, and still let them have their illusions I think, in other words be kind to their mother in your conversations.

WAT, I've got to say that telling children on Christmas Eve would be heartless and evil.

My H told my 26 year old son the day after d-day while I was out of the room but I knew he was going to tell him. I came back in the room and we all then talked in a very adult way. Son said "I'm all right with this as long as you work this out and stay together."

My H and I told my 23 year old daughter together and she got up, left the house and took off in her car with the tyres squealing. After txting her all weekend (she doesn't live at home) she came back to the house and, once again, we all talked as adults.

Looking around my house, just before Christmas, I see now a son who looks at me with the same respect he always did and a daughter who I've just helped through a traumatic break up with her long time boyfriend and who said to me "if I didn't have you to talk with about my problems I don't know what I'd do. You really understand."

So, guys, take all that how you like. I just know that my house this Christmas is filled with all the love and happiness it was when my children were small and waiting for Santa.

Jen

Both of my daughters (8 & 10) know their dad has a girlfriend.

It wasn't something that came out intentionally, but I've got to tell you that children understand so much more of what is happening around them than we give them credit for.

When my WH first told me, while he was deployed, that he wanted a divorce, I ended up telling my children that daddy wanted a divorce. I had just stopped breastfeeding our infant son and had hormonal changes going on, my world as I knew it was changing and I couldn't even talk to the man who was telling me he wanted to end our marriage. I was an emotional wreck. One day I just blew up at my girls over something pretty small and when I went to their room to apologize, the 8 year looked at me and said "We'll try to be better, mommy." SO, I told them that mommy was confused and sad and it had nothing to do with them and ended up telling them that daddy wanted a divorce and it made me sad.

When he came home, 2 months later, they knew he wanted a divorce and figured out on their own (largely due to his talking to her the entire day when I was at work) that he had a girlfriend.

My girls have always talked pretty openly and I have been honest with them as I felt appropriate over the years. My 10 year old asked if daddy wanted a divorce because of the girl in the picture he had in his wallet that she thought he talked to all day. Then she said she heard him say I love you to someone on the phone who she knew wasn't me because I was outside in the yard. She asked me point blank if he had a girlfriend.

I didn't lie to her and told her Yes. We talked for a while and I told her daddy loves you, mommy and daddy are trying to fix their adult problems and that no matter what she could talk to me about how she felt.

It is and will no doubt remain one of the saddest experiences I've ever had.

When their dad left after only being home for two months after his deployment, they asked me if he moved to be with his girlfriend. I told them he went for a job. The 8 year old asked if daddy's girlfriend lived there too.

I said yes.

While I do not advocate opening up all the gory details or even being the one to bring the subject up, I decided I wouldn't outright lie to them.

They aren't stupid and would see through it. I know that sometimes when they ask questions they know the answer and are seeing if I will be honest. They are sneaky little girls!

I want them to know they have someone they can trust. It's hard to walk the line of being age appropriate and not bad talking their father while still not lying straight to their faces.

It just sucks. I second guess myself all the time. But I would do it no matter what I guess.

FIM, that is such a sad story but your girls sound very strong and confident in your love for them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithful follower:
<strong> FIM, that is such a sad story but your girls sound very strong and confident in your love for them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My daughters constantly amaze me!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>Oh WAT, you poor thing. You grew up in hell didn't you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I grew up in a home filled with integrity, honesty, and with emphasis on personality responsibility.

Weave and Jen - you still didn't comprehend what I said. I'm not advocating exposing to small children specifically on any occasion. Re-read what I wrote. I'm saying that exposure in general - to an OP's spouse and family - has to happen and if kids get exposed to it in the process that's sad, but unavoidable. This is the OP's problem. Exposure shouldn't be avoided for anyone's sensibilities.

You don't have to agree, but please don't twist my words into something I didn't say.

And let's remember what's "heartless and evil." Exposing homewreckers does not fit this, IMHO. Being a homewrecker does. Play the role, pay the toll. The toll can be very uncomfortable - the more discomfort the better when it comes to the consequences of exposure.

WAT

Wat,

I hear what you're saying and I agree in theory....however, we do have control over the timing of exposure....and most of us would prefer (as I'm sure you would) to choose a different day other than Christmas. I feel strongly enough about the sanctity of that holiday, especially for children, that I would be willing to wait one day later in an effort to protect even someone else's children....yes, even the OPs children. Since the purpose of exposure is to end the affair, and not to punish...I would want to be sure that my purpose was clear and beyond reproach. Exposure is hard enough without having to fight my own conscience or uneccessarily feel responsible for further hurting innocent children....mine or theirs.

OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.

Wait a day - or two! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

If you even have a choice, DON'T do it on Christmas Eve.

Maybe, just maybe, the WSs will feel the sprit of the occasion and relent! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Weave, just package those coal pieces and send them to me.

WAT

Weave, just package those coal pieces and send them to me.

LOL.

Now whose getting their britches in a bunch.

This is a very touchy subject given everybody's different views on protecting children - honesty vs protection, and which is really best for them.

I realise the affair MUST be exposed, I just wish we could protect all the children from it.

I'm removing myself from this discussion because I think I am too sensitive to it.

And yes just one more reason to dispise the horrible, evil, destructive nature of affairs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />