Sorry if I seem confused. You Plan A'd for 3 months and then started making demands and having fights? Or you were still fighting while in Plan A?

Three months of plan A, and it wasn't working. She had 4 false recoveries and and each false recovery I got more angry with her than the time before. It got to the point where we were going backwards and I filed for D. I still didn't really want a D but did it anyway. I know I should have gone to plan B, but I didn't. I didn't want to keep living the way we had been. On 12-18-04 my love bank for her became depleted. I no longer will exert any energy into saving this marriage. Unless, she comes clean. If that is too much of a demand for her then I guess we will go our separate ways. I know I tried at least.

MIF
How am I doin?

OK, I read some of your previous posts and I think I understand.

My opinion for what it's worth. I think that you could still have a good marriage at some point, in spite of your wife's failings. Nothing you've done so far has worked and you're very nearly done, but not quite because you still love her.

Have you considered just letting go of it all and asking God to help?

I agree with Legato MIF. As I'm heading the same way with my WW moving out soon, and she's talking about "doing it (the D) the easy way".

I have pretty much given my WW over to God. He is the one she is held accountable too, no longer me. She has chosen to step out of my "covering" and now she is out in the world. I truly hope she changes before God changes her, but only she can decide that. I have Hope and Faith in GOD, not in my WW, she is human and will fail. Remember where to put your faith, he will never fail or forsake us.

Native.

OK, one more thing; read this and tell me what you think:

How to be a doormat

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bryanp:
<strong> Hello,

She believes telling you the truth to be controlling behavior on your part? Oh please...
What does she get out of it by telling you the truth? Oh please.....

She is not serious. If you do not have honesty in your relationship and if she continues to refuse to break off contact with the OM then you are simply wasting your time. If the roles were reversed, I think she would be saying the same things as you are saying.

You judge people by their actions and not by their words. Her actions speak volumes. How can you remain in a relationship when your spouse continuously lies to you and only admits the truth when confronted with the proof? Who wants to live a life like that? These are her choices and these will be her consequences. I wish you luck. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BRYANP:

I like what you said about her, Same issue what I am going through and (Baammm!) you hit my situation on this post. Makes me feel good about your post thank you so much. Thank you...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong> Yes, I tried plan A for 3 months. To no avail </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong>Three months of plan A, and it wasn't working. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What did you think Plan A would do?

Change you wife? End the affair?

If that's what you think Plan A is, you don't understand it.

The only way for Plan A to fail is for you to expect it to do anything other than change YOU!

The only way Plan A can fail is for you to be reluctant to implement it.

So, I believe you did 3 months of Plan force-her-to-do-what-I-want.

That will fail every time, no matter how long you do it. In fact, the longer you do it, the more it fails.

I suggest you start over.

Gee wiz, Man - she says she wants to work on the marriage! True or not, do you know that those words would be music to the ears of many BSs here?

WAT

Well she says one thing and does another. I can't take it any longer. Her actions speak louder than words and her actions say she does not want to save this marriage.

legato The doormat link was a good one. Thanks.

MIF

WAT,

For my education and MIF?’s benefit, assuming he buys into this, how do you administer a Plan A now? What does it look like?

His WW says she wants to work on the marriage. I agree those are nice words to hear. Other nice words to hear are: “Binder…you’re a millionaire” But if I don’t have a million bucks it’s just that; nice words…..but mere noise really.

So he says to go forward, I need you to come clean. I happen to agree that it is required to heal a marriage. Are you suggesting he leave that alone for now…assume she’s continuing the A during the “working on the marriage” charade. To implement classic plan A strategy. Continue to confront her when he discovers her dalliances and continue exposure etc. BTW I read some of his previous posts….OM is a single 28 Yr. old living in mommy’s basement.

What sort of a road map are you suggesting here, and what sort of time frame?

<small>[ December 24, 2004, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong> WAT,

For my education and MIF?’s benefit, assuming he buys into this, how do you administer a Plan A now? What does it look like?

His WW says she wants to work on the marriage. I agree those are nice words to hear. Other nice words to hear are: “Binder…you’re a millionaire” But if I don’t have a million bucks it’s just that; nice words…..but mere noise really.

So he says to go forward, I need you to come clean. I happen to agree that it is required to heal a marriage. Are you suggesting he leave that alone for now…assume she’s continuing the A during the “working on the marriage” charade. To implement classic plan A strategy. Continue to confront her when he discovers her dalliances and continue exposure etc. BTW I read some of his previous posts….OM is a single 28 Yr. old living in mommy’s basement.

What sort of a road map are you suggesting here, and what sort of time frame? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Binder, that's exactly what I think is happening. I think my WW is saying she wants to work on this marriage, but I don't believe her after 4 months of hearing her say that and not do a damn thing to show that is what she really wants I just am not buying into it any longer.

PS: Binder, You're a millionaire! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MIF?
How am I doin?

I'm suggesting the basic Plan A. MIF identifies his faults that helped create the poor marital environment, eliminate them, and demonstrate them to the extent his wife allows him to. Meet any ENs she allows him to.

At the same time, cease all disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, and other love busters. No more ultimatums and no more trying to force her to come clean.

In parallel, expose the affair in expanding, concentric circles.

What he's described in this thread is a lot of impatience and trying to force the issues. He's filed for divorce.

Time frame: when he's satisfied that he's demonstrated his improvements and has had a sustained period of no love busters and has trouble keeping his cool with her, then he should move towards Plan B > get legally separated/establish separate living arrangements, child custody, financial splits, etc. In fact, he can get started on this now by determining what legal arrangements are available in his locale. How long he can endure is up to him.

WAT

WAT, what you don't understand is I did plan A for 3-4 months and have reached that point where I had trouble keeping my cool with her. Hence the plan D. I realize I should have plan B'd but I didn't. I was so fed up with everything that I didn't want to drag this out any longer with a plan B only to find out 6 months later I was in plan D anyway.

I no longer care about trying to save this marriage. My WW has lied to me over and over again I am to the point where I am ready to move on without her. If she decided that she was serious and she started to make the changes in her then I may be willing to work on this, but not at the point we are currently at.

The disrespectful judgements, the angry outbursts and other love busters are gone. I no longer care enough to let those happen. We had a discussion last week and she took a verbal jab at me and normally I would have gotten angry, defensive and jabbed back. I didn't. It didn't matter.

I think plan b is my next step which will happen when the legal separation comes down the pike here real soon. Not sure what that will do, though. I'm sure she will call OM even more since I won't be around at all, but again, I don't care. She can call him. She can start her new life too, her new life with him, I'm fine with that. I too will start my new life without her.

MIF
How am I doin'?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong>I no longer care about trying to save this marriage.

I think plan b is my next step which will happen when the legal separation comes down the pike here real soon.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know there is much I don't understand in the world.

Included are your inconsistent statements, e.g., the ones above.

You have to decide if you want to try to save the marriage and give more than three months to it or divorce.

One or the other.

Don't talk Plan B and divorce at the same time.

You listen to me and you listen to me closely.

You give a lousy three months to "Plan A" and then give up, then you will regret this for the rest of your life.

Go ahead, tell your daughters > "I was not willing to sacrifice a few more months to work on your Mom's and my marriage, to help save your family for your wellbeing, because I wasn't getting my way."

Go ahead, tell them that, then get your divorce.

WAT

MIF said,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WW and I had a talk earlier this evening. I told her what I need from her is the whole truth about her relationship with OM. If she does that I could probably get myself to work on the M again. At the start when I got info I would ask the WW about it, she would deny it and then I would show her my proof and how I knew. She would then admit to it and we would continue doing the same. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Binder said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said you demand honesty to even consider working on the marriage. Sounds fair to me.

You let her know that you will check her story against the facts you know to determine if she is being honest now. What....you don't trust her?? I wonder why.

She broke the trust contract; she does not get to write the next one. She must go beyond being honest...she must now prove honesty. Makes sense to me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been near the same place. Only my STBX stills maintains her lies even if confronted by evidence. How in the world can you work with that.

Ark^^ and Orchid, Wish my STBX could spend a weekend with you. If not for my sake for the kids sake. Your responses above were so well put. A BS as well as a WS can pick up alot from your perspectives.


Wat:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You give a lousy three months to "Plan A" and then give up, then you will regret this for the rest of your life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think your right about that. I guess everyone has different limits. After my STBX thought she might want to reconcile our M, she called me 3 days later and said hurry up and lets finish this divorce. She said she "tried" for 3 days.

I'm not exactly sure what she tried, except to take me to court and boss me around. As you so succinctly(sp) put it:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, I believe you did 3 months of Plan force-her-to-do-what-I-want.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That seems to be her plan. Then she goes to Plan P for punishment.

I gave her SAA thinking if she really did want to reconcile it could show her the way, but she didn't read it. Says she's too busy. She wants to reconcile but she is too busy.... again her actions louder than words.

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

MIF?

I’ve been reading through this thread again and reexamined some of my posts. I maintain that it is your prerogative to define the minimum terms under which you will stay within a marriage. I guess the timing of exercising your right to bail now becomes the issue. My first post at least was made while ignorant of the existence of your three daughters and may have been somewhat cavalier given what’s at stake.

I’ve never been in a true “recovery”. As previously stated, I believe the BS has a right to know to ugly truth if he feels it will be beneficial for his recovery. One should not polish a dirty floor and if a full confession is what is required to move forward…so be it. In your case, however, you’re not in the recovery stage in spite of what your WW says.

WAT’s encouragement to “keep trying” comes from the perspective of already having gone the divorce route. It is to be given some weight regarding the ability of divorce to solve the concerns and frustrations stated by yourself. He correctly points out that the decision to divorce will negatively impact every member of your family. Divorce is forever.

I’m wondering if a plan can be tailored to satisfy your present desire to divorce….or at least separate, and still give this marriage a chance. Maybe an abbreviated Plan A with the removal of any expectations of your WW to “see the light”. Expose the affair. I've not come across any of your posts that deal with that. Post a Plan B letter here and give it to her upon, or shortly after, the separation.

Affairs usually end. I think it’s safe to say that the 28 yr. old man-child will not be able to successfully slink out of mommy’s basement into a relationship with a mother of 3 young daughters. This will pass. Then the question is where will you be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong> MIF?

I’ve been reading through this thread again and reexamined some of my posts. I maintain that it is your prerogative to define the minimum terms under which you will stay within a marriage. I guess the timing of exercising your right to bail now becomes the issue. My first post at least was made while ignorant of the existence of your three daughters and may have been somewhat cavalier given what’s at stake.

I’ve never been in a true “recovery”. As previously stated, I believe the BS has a right to know to ugly truth if he feels it will be beneficial for his recovery. One should not polish a dirty floor and if a full confession is what is required to move forward…so be it. In your case, however, you’re not in the recovery stage in spite of what your WW says.

WAT’s encouragement to “keep trying” comes from the perspective of already having gone the divorce route. It is to be given some weight regarding the ability of divorce to solve the concerns and frustrations stated by yourself. He correctly points out that the decision to divorce will negatively impact every member of your family. Divorce is forever.

I’m wondering if a plan can be tailored to satisfy your present desire to divorce….or at least separate, and still give this marriage a chance. Maybe an abbreviated Plan A with the removal of any expectations of your WW to “see the light”. Expose the affair. I've not come across any of your posts that deal with that. Post a Plan B letter here and give it to her upon, or shortly after, the separation.

Affairs usually end. I think it’s safe to say that the 28 yr. old man-child will not be able to successfully slink out of mommy’s basement into a relationship with a mother of 3 young daughters. This will pass. Then the question is where will you be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think a plan B will be what I will do after the separation. I have done all of plan A. I also understand where WAT is coming from.

I have exposed this to everyone that matters. . I even exposed OM's mommy and daddy. The truth is something I do want. I don't know if I will ever be able to trust my WW again, but the complete truth will be a start.

We have never made it into the recovery stage. Well maybe for a 2 week period there, but what kind of recovery is that?

MIF

It's not a plan B without the letter...do you have one?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong>I think it’s safe to say that the 28 yr. old man-child will not be able to successfully slink out of mommy’s basement into a relationship with a mother of 3 young daughters. This will pass. Then the question is where will you be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This has been central to my recommendation throughout. No friggin' way will this guy stick with your wife. No way.

WAT

WAT, BINDER, MIF, hoping not to threadjack here.

But since the 28 yr old guy will not want to stay with MIF's W and three kids. What is a reasonable timeframe for MIF to wait? I'm wondering about this in my own sitch.

I can see as a young guy myself that attaching to a married women is probably not what the guy is thinking. However this fact does not make itself known to the WW. Only the BS knows this fact.

How long to wait?

Considering kids as young as yours and MIF's, how long until you don't want to be influential in their lives?

Take it from someone who lost a child - those children are precious. Are you willing to voluntarily give them up? This is what you do when you divorce - give away half their lives, assuming joint custody.

Divorce may result, but why make that decision? Stick with the program and let your WS make that decision. The power of a clear conscience should not be underestimated.

WAT