WAT,

I gotcha. I can see the incosistancy in my Plan B / plan D thing going on. Plan B is designed to help save a marriage. Well, I am all for a D at this point. The only way I would reconsider would be if my WW decided to come clean and be completely honest. Hence, I guess what I was thinking was plan B here when I get out of the house. Going dark, unless she gets ahold of me and says I want to be completely honest....

Then I would reconsider working on this M again. At this point I don't care. If I could finalize the D today, I would.

There are a lot of other issues I have to consider as well. Other issues we've had over the years that I have addressed to her and she ignored. Now that I am going down the road to D, I feel these are important enough to me that I don't know if I want to reconcile unless she can make a few changes.

We will be together tonight - alone for once - (kids at grandma's) and we plan on having a serious talk so we'll see.

MIF?

Let us know how it goes.

One thing that I had to learn was that if I wanted my wife to be honest I had to work very hard to make it safe for her to tell me ANYTHING. I had to learn how not to lose it when she WAS honest; not punish her for being honest. Slowly, she began to open up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong>We will be together tonight - alone for once - (kids at grandma's) and we plan on having a serious talk so we'll see.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen ... Listen ... Listen ... No angry outburst, no disrepectful judgement, no LB!!!. Think what you want to say and how you want to say it ... think what she might say and how you would response to her.

Don't use this talk to punish her or to dump your anger to her. Use it to exchange honest information about you and about her.

Above all ... be yourself and good luck.

-rh-

Note: in-love feeling could be re-created if she is willing to do it and you let her. It is 4 rules of recover ... ENs, no LBs, time and honesty.

Yeah, I don't know how safe she feels but since I have accepted the fact that we will divorce my anger has been released. I no longer harbor this intense rage I was feeling toward OM and WW. Now I think if OM called here I could answer the phone and give it to WW without being too upset.

MIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>You listen to me and you listen to me closely.

You give a lousy three months to "Plan A" and then give up, then you will regret this for the rest of your life.

Go ahead, tell your daughters > "I was not willing to sacrifice a few more months to work on your Mom's and my marriage, to help save your family for your wellbeing, because I wasn't getting my way."

Go ahead, tell them that, then get your divorce.
WAT </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By the way, I never did respond to this 2x4.
Whoooosh! (the sound of that 2x4 coming at my head)
The look on MIF's face => <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MIF

MIF?,

She would feel safer if there is no anger & whatever she discloses is not going to be used against her in any way. The info. stay in within the room and never be used again.

-rh-

Wat:You listen to me and you listen to me closely. Go ahead, tell your daughters > "I was not willing to sacrifice a few more months to work on your Mom's and my marriage, to help save your family for your wellbeing, because I wasn't getting my way."

I'm sorry WAT, I truley see your words of wisdom here. I truly, truly do and they hit home for me and I'm only guessing but I'm sure that MIF does also. However, these same words of wisdom can and should IMO be given to our WW's. I can't help being angry/upset that the BS is the one that has to shoulder all this. I know I'm probably wrong here, its just my thought (at least thoughts I've started to have lately).

Also MIF sorry to jack if I am... Native

Nah, you're alright native. I too feel a bit like you.

MIF

MIF? & native00,

If there was no A but on d-day... but your W suddentely sick w/ a mental disorder. She is going nuts, delutional, hallunational and unaware to her condition plus refuses treatment.

Would you divorce her after 3 months ? or your will be on her side to help her out and take care of her ?.

Thanks God this A is not a disorder ... we all know that that fog will be lifted ... the question is are you willing to do the right steps and hang in there ?. No one would fault you to take different steps but make sure that you could live w/ your decision.

As a disclaimer, my exW filed and I pushed for Dv'ed. I have my own reasons ... to protect my finances and I would not waste my life for years. A few years past from the time I took that decision ... I still say I gave my best shot and I would do it again.

-rh-

MIF,

So what has happened since your WW was served?

Okay Redhat, I see your point here, but I think there was another thread going about this that Lemmonman was in on. In your example the W did not choose to have the disorder. This is not the case for an A. Sure I believe that the WS "perception of there troubled life/marriage" is very real to them. It however is wrong and flawed. They chose to step out of the marriage and go against God's will, which is also society's will (as most people say that adultery is wrong). They made a concious choice to not do the dishonorable thing and divorce if they were so hurt. They chose to get their needs met elsewhere.

Redhat can you please post a rebuttle to help me understand if I'm way off course?

Just my thoughts, Native

native, my WW was served and at the time I was still willing to work on the M. Since then, however, I have had felt my love for her just drain out. Her lies, her continued contact and her lack of emotion for me just killed my love for her. I still love her, she is the mother of my children and I have spent 1/3 of my life with her, but I no longer feel I need her or necessarily want her in my life as my wife.

I just found this at Dr. Phil's website
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There comes a point in time where you may have to draw a line and say, "That's it, I'm done. I'm not mad at you. I withdraw my feelings, I withdraw my emotions. You just go do whatever you're going to do because I'm not going to live like this anymore."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and I think that is what I basically did on 12/18/04. As a result I am no longer angry with her reltionship with OM. If she chooses to be with him because the grass is greener right now then more power to her.

MIF?
How am I doin'?

<small>[ December 26, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: MIF? ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
<strong>They made a concious choice to not do the dishonorable thing and divorce if they were so hurt. They chose to get their needs met elsewhere.

Redhat can you please post a rebuttle to help me understand if I'm way off course?

Just my thoughts, Native </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, they did. Yes, we as BS has every right to Dv'ed our WS ... the Bible states so. However before we exercise our rightous right make sure we are clean of our own consicous !, are we rightous to take that rightous act ?. Have we fix our mistakes and let WS acknowledge it ?

This is what WAT tries to tell us. We will survive this A ... but we have to make sure that we gave our best shot. Make sure that we follow the proper steps. Make sure that we could look back 10 years from now and have no regret !.

You are the one could answer the above questions and you are the one should make the decision ... but make sure you could live w/ it.

Review your plan A before going to plan B and get MB counseling if you could afford it. I got SH to help me out through out the drama of plan A/B.

-rh-

<small>[ December 26, 2004, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

MIF?,

one thing that Dr. Phil didn't explain in his comment ... how about if you still have love for SO ?. In MB it is very clear ... let it drained by plan B and at the end you filed.

could you look back 10 years from now and have no regret ?

-rh-

I realize I made a drastic move out of hurt, and anger when I filed for D. Since then, however, yes, I feel I can look back and have no regrets. That may sound foolish to some of you for me giving up so quickly, but I really saw no end to this. My WW doesn't think there is anything wrong with her relationship with the OM. I have seen others, and no offense to them, like momto3boys, and I can not understand how they could put up with so much. I actually give them credit for having the patience that I obviously don't have.

MIF
How am I doin'?

<small>[ December 26, 2004, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: MIF? ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong> I realize I made a drastic move out of hurt, and anger when I filed for D.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We saw it clearly and that is why we are behind your @ss to answer the right questions ... however there is no right answer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . There is only decision that you have to live with.

We are here to support you

-rh-

Keep on me with those 2x4's I am a big boy and can take 'em. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MIF
How am I doin'?

MIF?, do you beleive that in-love could be recreated & depend on SO ?. Your in-love feeling could be back if your W is willing to do the right thing and you let her. Love is a decision.

Good luck on your talk tonite.

-rh-

I do feel that we had something once and we could get that back if we are both willing to try. Right now I don't think she wants to try nor do I that is the problem. I wonder now if she will show up. She should have been here by now, I would have thought anyway. Of course, she probably had to see OM to do their Christmas thing together.

MIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong>Right now I don't think she wants to try nor do I that is the problem.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would you hang in there until she is willing ? I am not asking you to try.


-rh-

<small>[ December 26, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>