In the spirit of Christmas...bear with me for just a minute.....

I've been wondering - a lot - what the Christmas season, and all that comes with it, might "do" to the CWWS (Currently Wayward Wayward Spouse).

For me, the BS, as Christmas approaches, everything is getting worse day-by-day -- more pain, of course... more reflection and introspection... more sadness as all the memories of so many Christmases past come flooding in/out/whatever those memories do...

I wish I could hear from FWS's... what did this season do to you... when you were in the Fog?

And as I was just thinking about this, the Rudolph song came on the radio, and I couldn't help but think... if that stupid (but cute) little reindeer figured out a way thru the Fog, well then why can't...??

Said another way, if I could find my WW, and paint her nose red... would she find her way home??

ps. my question about WS's and what goes thru their heads, and hearts, at Christmas time was a serious one. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hehe, I like it. We should all paint our WS's noses red.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MIF

Can I get an amen brothers???

I would also like to know how the holidays were on a WS?

Sorry tqt... jack. I'll get out of this after this post. Yesterday, Christmas.... the birth of Jesus Christ, my WW and I put the kids down for bed. 10pm came and WW took a shower and left the house. 4am comes and I get up for work, WW was on the couch I checked her cell, she call OM#2 and probably spent the night with him!!! On Jesus's bday!!

native,

How many OM does your WW have?

Well her first OM that I caught her in the club with and have pics on was with her until 11/22. On 11/22 she went to CDC and found out that he gave her an STD. Since then according to cell records she has had little contact with him on the phone. She now has #2 that she calls all the time, I don't have any pics or info on him. Just his cell, name, and address. My PI hasn't been on this guy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry tqt... jack. I'll get out of this after this post. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey! Native... you can't do that -- I owe you a couple dozen replies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Seriously, I've been wondering what "the holidays" do to the WS's... what goes thru their minds...
Wouldn't you think it would shake things up, at least a little?

Oh, that's right. I have read and am familiar with your sich.

Your WW likes to go out to the clubs and picks up these strangers right?

Native I just dont understand how you take the abuse from her. She goes out on Christmas night to be with OM & then comes home to sleep on the couch. Her butt would not be staying at my house. I know you have kids involved but dont take the abuse. She is a 'cake eater'. She is living the best of both worlds....two men who want her. She must have self esteem issues dealing with attention. One clue about that, she has stuck around & not filed herself. She has you wanting her bak & this OM calling her all the time. Is she selfish?.......yeah!!

tqt,


Yes I would like to think that also that being together as a family has to touch them on some level. Are WW's still human? I gave my WW a nice shirt and a plaque that said:

I'D MARRY YOU AGAIN
With tiny tears that glistened, my eyes were fixed on you, and thinking of the life we'd share we softly said, "I do."

Our hearts were knit together from the time that we first met, and memories were gathered that we will never forget. While daily living life with you, you saw the real me, and still you chose acceptance, a loving mystery.

With many happy times gone by and others when we cried, some days we'd share so endlessly, while other days we'd hide.

With all the ups and downs we've had in learning to be friends, I know that in this heart of mine I'D MARRY YOU AGAIN.

What was her gift to me you may ask? I got "I wish you wouldn't have gotten me a gift." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Yes WW likes to go to clubs. That's why my sitch is a little different/but the same. This isn't an EN thing, it's a maturity thing for her and that she wants the single life.

Hey Jeffrey,

Yeah I know she's a cake-eater she has been for a while. Is she selfish, definately. Have I been doing my plan A yes. She is moving out I think around Jan as she's been searching for an appt. And as it stands now I actually want her to leave, even if that means I loose the house as I can't live with her anymore.

native, very nice gift.

My WW saw a few presents under the tree with her name on them and asked me why I got her something. I told her that I got them before everything turned south and I filed for D. I wasn't going to take them back. I then got her something else a few days before Christmas and she noticed it and asked me why I got her another gift. She got me a shirt, from the kids. I wonder what she got her boyfriend? That is what I want to know.

tqt,
To get this thread back on track. My WW asked me as we were exchanging the kids, to come to her parents for Christmas. I just couldn't. Didn't think it was appropriate. Not sure how that affected her or if it did at all.

When I asked her how Christmas went she told me it was fine.

MIf

Native she obivously doesnt care about you or the family you both made. Its all about her & what she wants. I mean what can be worth it to sacrifice a marriage & breaking up a family.....good times with someone else??? Good times dont last forever. I mean when you were first together everything was great....then eventually it wore off. Thats a natural progression in a relationship or marriage. They (WS) dont understand that usually. They are just tired of being unhappy & unfulfilled....like some OP can do that for them. What a load. If its all about emotional needs, then the shoe can be placed on the other foot. Can they argue they have tried to meet the BS's needs? no. They have no clue how to. They just know that their needs are being met by OP, so thats ok with them. takers = Users

jeffrey,

I agree with you 100%

Just my .02

I agree also gents...

Alright tqt back to your regulary scheduled program. I would like to think that everyone touched by the nastiness of an A gets torn up inside at the previous holidays. You can't erase memories no matter how hard you try.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
They are just tired of being unhappy & unfulfilled....like some OP can do that for them. What a load. If its all about emotional needs, then the shoe can be placed on the other foot. Can they argue they have tried to meet the BS's needs? no. They have no clue how to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well said. Seems to fit perfectly in my situation. And I'm constantly wondering about the odds of WW EVER being able to meet 1/3 of my needs... so... what am I fighting for?

Yep.. she also said she had a nice Xmas... then had some sort of angry, hostile, miserable meltdown (I'll try to detail some of it on my other thread) and basically blamed me for destroying her life.

You guys sound like you have your act together, in spite of it all...

It took me a while to get my act together....almost a year now after she told me she wanted out. Its been rough. I've made small steps to separate myself from it all. It seems the longer you are with someone, the longer it will take. Especially if what you had wasnt a relationship full of resentment & hatred. I dont think mine was. Most dont start out that way...they may end up that way though. But I've noticed a similarity among stories. The WS was more than likely not very vocal about their unhappiness in the marriage until it was too late. Once they tell you it is over...it pretty much is over. They have gone thru it in their minds over & over. Communication is the key.
But you are right....why fight for someone who would do this to you. If not now...it will happen again later. I know. It happened to me twice, one year apart almost. My advice, go on with your life as if she doesnt exist. Let her have control where the relationship goes though. Let her have the trigger to kill it. She will feel so much guilt. I unfortunately saved mine from the guilt...I filed myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Once they tell you it is over...it pretty much is over. They have gone thru it in their minds over & over. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well that's true in a sense, but if given time and the knowledge that their spouse is willing to forgive and work on the LBing that got them to this place to begin with, I think they can go thru those positive words we BS's can give them over and over in their heads just as much. And maybe....just maybe they can slowly get through the fog enough to want it to work.

My WH opened up enough at Christmas to tell me that he was afraid to come back because he thought I would just up and change my mind and divorce him. I told him that I had been wrong in the past to threaten divorce as a way to get him to meet my EN's. And that it appeared that we both had trust issues. I needed to learn to trust that he wouldn't betray me again, and he needs to trust me when I say "I'm not going anywhere"

With all of the reading I have done TQT, I think the WS's have so many self esteem issues that often they want to feel bad. Self imposed punishment I guess. I told my WH that when I bring things about the A up it isn't to make him feel bad, because I know that he is doing enough of that on his own. Sometimes I think the best thing to do is act like the OM doesn't exist and focus on the other issues in our marriages. She certainly knows that having contact with the OM is going past your boundary and that it is hurtful to you, but she literally can not help heself. But if you continue to love her despite the pain it may pay off. As I have said before though only you know your limits and only you know when you have had enough.

I know that you don't have kids, but I have been thinking about it this way. What would it take for me to stop loving my children? What if they ended up in jail?, daughter pregnant?, stole money from me?, told me they hated me?, spit in my face?. Nope, nope, nope....I would probably want to love them more and help them through whatever it was they were going through. I might not want to be around them, but I would always be there for them. They are blood of my blood , bone of my bone. If I feel that way about them, why can't I give that same gift to my spouse?

Time, time, time....what is a year in terms of a life time? How about 1 month for every year of marriage. That means I will give my spouse 1 year and 4 months....I think I can do that....what about you?

Bear in mind I can’t answer for any WS but myself. Many have had different feelings/reactions to what your WS has done and by the same token, different WS’s will have different feelings/reactions also. I think it also depends on the time frame of the affair, whether it’s the beginning, middle or the end as the infatuation starts to wear off.

I found my old GF at the beginning of December 2003 and by Christmas, we were both in a full EA. My W caught me at my office talking to my GF on Christmas Eve at around 9 pm. To say the least, she was devastated that I would be talking to her on this night. That’s when it first dawned on her what was going on.

Although I felt bad the rest of the night and on Christmas Day that I had ruined her holidays, I wanted to talk to my GF and in the late afternoon, I left the house and did exactly that.

On New Years Eve, it didn’t bother me that I was leaving my wife for someone else. I moved out in early January 2003 and on Valentine’s Day, I don’t believe I even thought of my W as I was in CA visiting my GF. I was with my wife for Easter and I don’t remember feeling any remorse for what I was doing. I was completely infatuated with my GF.

Early April, I moved into my GF’s apartment in CA and everything was seemingly great until the middle of May when it struck me what I had done. Mother’s Day and Memorial Day sucked and I thought about my W most of the day and what she must be feeling. Our anniversary was on July 4 and that was a killer! Same for the rest of the holidays and I felt bad but stayed away.

Only now in December have I parted with my GF so I could work on and try and save our marriage. So far, things are not going well. This Christmas was simply terrible and I’m here trying to make a go of a marriage I placed on the rocks!

What went through my mind this Christmas sitting in this motel? Christmases past (and I think Scrooge’s ghost was here)! The tree that I watched her finish decorating so carefully, her sitting on the couch on Christmas Eve and morning drinking coffee, her opening presents, her opening the presents I got for her, the joy there was in the house, putting together stuff “Santa” brought late at night for the kids and grand-kids, games we played, hugs she gave me and the feeling of contentment that I had and stupidly lost on my own with help only from myself.

I hope Christmas next year is back to normal. I can’t do another one of these!

Whacked

Hi Waiting,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With all of the reading I have done TQT, I think the WS's have so many self esteem issues that often they want to feel bad. Self imposed punishment I guess.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, and I think there's a decent chance that in some convoluted way, my WW feels she doesn't "deserve" to come home.
And I think part of the reason she left in the first place was to "punish" herself. I think...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She certainly knows that having contact with the OM is going past your boundary and that it is hurtful to you, but she literally can not help heself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wish I knew how much of the OM/WW relationship is pressure from him, how much is plain old loneliness (ie. she just needs the company and someone to talk to), and how much of it is "real."


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time, time, time....what is a year in terms of a life time? How about 1 month for every year of marriage. That means I will give my spouse 1 year and 4 months....I think I can do that....what about you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've given her 10 months already. I don't really feel myself giving it a time limit, but I'm not sure I could give her another 11 months (unless I knew the outcome would be positive).

If we had children, I'd feel differently, I'm sure.

tqt:I just wish I knew how much of the OM/WW relationship is pressure from him, how much is plain old loneliness (ie. she just needs the company and someone to talk to), and how much of it is "real."

Sorry tqt, but if she needed someone to talk to what the heck is wrong with you??? Don't you have ears? Yes I see the irony that men have the equipment to hear but usually don't. Sorry but I've been getting angry/frustrated lately.

Native