oops...

Ya, the title is pretty harsh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dewt

Pep said:
"Go ahead... open a thread about BS stench ... and I'll share some of my own stench on that thread."

I would be interested in a thread on that subject, how to recognize our own stench, how to clean ourselves up, how to deodorize.

dewt said:
"I'm objecting to the tone, and to the fact that there's a difference between saying "WS stink" and WS actions stink."

I agree that there is a difference between those two things. However, if the behavior stinks long enough and intensely enough it does eventually become part of the person and then the person himself/herself stinks (not just their behaviors).

My FWH stinks. His attitude and behavior does too and has for a long time. Is it a DJ to say that now he IS the stench? Maybe. Maybe the sweetsmelling things are just being overpowered by the stench. But I think anything sweetsmelling he had has been REPLACED by the stench.

On the other hand, my attitude and behavior stank (or is it stunk?) bad enough and long enough that most, if not all, of my sweetsmelling things were overpowered by the stench. I was definitely in danger of anything sweetsmelling about me being REPLACED by that stench.

I still have attitudes and behaviors that stink, but I will not become the stench because that is not what I want for myself. I have no idea why FWH is happy with his choice but he is. My FWH's stench makes it easy to not notice (or to even dismiss) my own stinky attitudes and behaviors, and that is currently my biggest roadblock to eventually coming out of this smelling lemony fresh.

It would be helpful if orchid would clarify the initial hit and run post rather than have posters attempt to assume what the intent was/is.

This thread is liable to get ugly in a hurry.

Good morning all,

Wow, didn't mean to start a debate over the title and all it's supposed meanings, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well if anything, this thread shows how a statement, can be interpreted many different ways. In those cases the originator s/b the one to clarify and if needed apologize for that statement.

I am the originator.... (no CA, here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). So here goes my explanation. All feedback +/_ are always welcome:

Clarification of "WS stink....can you smell the stench":

1. This title is highly offensive. So is the A.

2. It is referring to WS as WS not anyone else. All Xws and now spouses no longer have that stench as long as they remain away from being a WS by word and deed/actions. The stench can return if either are done (i.e. false recovery).

3. It was meant to be eye catching to the entire MB community here since what is often experienced is difficult to put into words much less deal with.

4. Smell is a strong sense. It is one that while c/b fooled, also recalls with great sensitivity past occurences. This sense associates happiness and sadness. Recalls happy and sad childhood memories and atrocities. It can have a long range effect on our future decisions. It effects our inner being. Conscience and subconscience.

5. As a result of #4, our decisions are often greatly affected by it.

6. It is a great motivator. Ex: Smell a skunk and RUN. Smell cinnamon in a pot of hot apple cider and ummmm...... it makes us feel safe and comfortable. You all did know that McDonald's puts cinnamon in their french fries, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

7. People make major purchases based on this scent.

Ok, enough about the clarification, now onto the apology:

A. None. I thought long and hard about this..... this is the brutal part of reality. How others perceive a sitch. But if you can produce a reasonable explanation, I am open to considering it and will change my opinion as needed. I am not unreasonable.

B. The statement was as brutal as could be for the analogy. The A does stink. In some cases figuratively and others physically.

The physical part is obvious. Probably happens more than it is reported. The figurative part happens consistently in the A and often shows up in other areas of life outside the immediate effects of the A.

One never knows the reaction of all other external parties to the A participants and we may never know. That in itself will not prevent good healing though. Good healing can happen. just like removing the stench by taking appropriate actions can happen.

The point is that it is within our control. We can choose to enable that stench, avoid the stench, leave the stench, remove the stench..... it may not be within our power to end the stench (can't bathe for the other person - LOL!!) but we can remove ourselves from carrying it to other parts of our lives. We can keep clean.

So the stench is out there......noticeable by many. In denial by some. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a stench that can not be hidden.

Come on..... you recall when you have by the outside observer of other A situations..... doesn't it seem stink to you? See others can smell the stench of an A........ if you can see there's why would your sitch be any different? Just because you are more accustomed to is smell? Think if you don't admit it (even to your children), no one will notice? Isn't that like the man who hasn't bathe for 5 days and when you pass him in the mall, airport, street, at work, in the grocery store, etc..... you can't tell? The longer it lasts the stronger the smell.

Children are radically honest in their opinions. Sometimes so much it embaresses the adults. You know what? Though they lack a lot in the tact field, they at least keep their innocence by their honesty. Yet someitmes adults teach them to hide or even lose innocence in lies (big or little, white or black), ommission, conflict avoiding, etc. But they still have their sense of smell. While not as dull as maybe ours have become, they remind us of how sensitive we were, s/b or c/b.

BTW, this subject was brought up a few years ago. Yep, it was by me then also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid,

In full agreement. I read it intially as it was intended. Didn't see it another way until it was pointed out..so..someone got some raw nerves stepped on, I think. Good.

There IS a discernable *stench* that signals *wanderring spouse* to me, now that I have smelt it before. I can smell it from a distance..I can smell it with great accuracy.

There IS a BS *stench* as well..just as putrescent..just a little harder to nail down as precisely A related. Could be abuse of another category..but it smells all the same.

I'm sure it offensive to WS and especially FWS to realize that their particular *stench* was apparent and obvious and offensive to any of the general public who recognized it. It is true nonetheless. My H's stench was picked up on by MANY people for being EXACTLY what it was..and now I understand it. It *isn't* the actions of the WS..it is the WS themselves..there is a..vibe..or..something that just reeks of decay..moral decay..death of the conscience. They could be polite as pie..and I ignorant of anything they have done, yet still I can smell it.

It isn't just WS..we all send out signals we are unaware of, perhaps not able to easily control. Ever met a drug addict you didn't suspect within a few minutes?

The stench is merely the product of integrity..your outsides being in agreement with your insides beyond your control. I don't like it either. I would love to be able to conceal my own odor, alas, the rules apply to all, no exemptions.

How can this be used as a tool? Well, most obviously as a method of detection..most BS who catch the WS in the beginning of a slip do so by scent..not by having proof drop into their lap.

I'd be interested in hearing the rest of O's thoughts on the matter.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>
The point is ... but we can remove ourselves from carrying it to other parts of our lives. We can keep clean.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">aaahhh....yes....I see...

what an awesome explanation...thank you, Orchid...

and I agree with you regarding the apology...none was needed in this instance...

thak you for clarifying..and doing so sooo patiently <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

mini-dewt is returning home from school..so I will be off..but I do intend a return..I am very interested in reading more...

Dylan

I love the whole concept of WS vs FWS. It allows me to separate the horible affair actions from the person that I love.

I have a problem with actions vs person though. As adults we are defined by our actions. Our actions ARE who we are, even it is only for that time frame.

Children are not bad, sometimes their actions are, but because they are children and not adult they are NOT defined by their actions.

So when when dealing with adults, I can not separate their actions from who they are as a person, however I can separate them by who they are at that time vs who they are now - as in WS vs FWS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just my feelings on it.

Thanks for clearing that up, Orchid.

I still don't like the term. I still find the word 'stench' to be a little too much of a blanket that puts the focus on the stinky behaviour rather than the root issues... the ones that need to be resolved for recovery to occur.

dewt

Now how to use the stench concept as a postive tool for the BS.

This is what I did back a few years ago and still use it nowadays as needed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When the WS babbled to me (talked foggy and just plain stupid as in without logic), I used the following response:

1. Can't continue this conversation. You are babbling again and it is too difficult to carry on a meaningful discussion.

2. Are you buying this yourself? I'm not.

3. If you expect me to believe this, would you believe me if I said the same to you?

4. after sheer desparation..... You stink.

Theae are what I used. I stopped in the middle of whatever the conversation was and just ended it. The WS have their quirks. Part of their former honest self is buried deep within their WS bodies. I had to reach deep down to find something I could work with.

When a WS is talking and the talk turns to babble....give it back. After a few futile attempts....just tell them they stink. I even sniffed the air when he came into my bedroom. He asked what was wrong? I said, well all was fine until you walked into this room. What did you step in? Did you get it on my carpet? He checked out his shoes and gave it to me to check. I said, well that's good, no smell there but something still stinks.

Oh that worried look on his face. Remember he had spent enough time with the OW that her stench probably would not be noticeable to him..... I played on that fact. In his case the OW also had 2 large dogs. So I sniffed the air and told him that the unusual kinda foul ordor was eminating from him. He asked if he should take a bath.... I said.....well not at my house. He needed to go do it elsewhere. LOL!!!

The smell? It was the stench of the WS. Unclean and unhealthy habits. Did it turn physical? It made me sick to my stomach. Isn't that physical enough?

BTW, when I saw the OW in court, that same stench past through the court room. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Yep, she had it too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My point is that the stench or thought of stench, got the WS wondering. We were more sensitive to any change in our environment that the WS imposed on us by his mere presence. I used that 'unknown' as a tool against the WS.

In fact even the OW used a similar tactic when she accused me of putting poop in his bag of clothes I dropped off on her doorstep. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So in retrospect....guess who gave me the idea!!!! Musta been that foul smellin' OW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

oh, orchid. Get ready.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> PM

Interesting thread.

WS does indeed bring home an odor. I mean a real smell, too.

Our dog (deceased last month, at an advanced age) was very protective of our son. She would not let any adult stranger into the yard. On occasion she would growl at W when she came home late or from a business trip. I think she smelled OMM on her.

I remember greeting W at the door various evenings when she came home late from “work” and she smelled different. Completely different. I even commented on it at the time. I now know it’s because she had been with OMM.

Also relevant, when you tell someone they smell bad, no matter how tactfully, they often are angry with you for mentioning it. They prefer it not brought up, just like the A itself.

T

Well, now that the forums are still open, I have a few minutes...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My point is that the stench or thought of stench, got the WS wondering. We were more sensitive to any change in our environment that the WS imposed on us by his mere presence. I used that 'unknown' as a tool against the WS.

In fact even the OW used a similar tactic when she accused me of putting poop in his bag of clothes I dropped off on her doorstep.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can now comfortably: LOL!

And this is why you are the queen of reverse babble/psychology! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Someone else posted the reason why they thought you used that word "stench" was, "MADE YOU LOOK!" You are one MB member that I would least think to be "mean" or "attacking." It is what it is.

I think for any WH, there is another unexplainable, eighth wonder that the stench is impossible to hide: women's intuition.

Nothing really to add...just yet another example of what your reverse psychology does to the state of a WS' mind.