Against my better judgement, WH is coming for Christmas. Yeh, yeh, I know this is a bad decision. I know what I'm letting myself in for. WH being here is important for my kids. My inlaws, who always come to our house for Christmas dinner, wouldn't come unless there was some resolution. My daughter was really upset that her grandparents wouldn't be here. Well, Wh is coming. MIL thinks her prayers have been answered. All right, so now I'm setup for the happy family Christmas.

Here's what I need help dealing with. WH is a master at telling people what they want to hear. He'll say he had a good talk with his son when son says it was a 5 minute conversation peppered with silence, anger and swear words (Son has a mouth on him) but no substance. WH is slithery. He uses a lot of qualifiers when he talks, maybe, just about, probably, almost. He doesn't really lie but glosses over the truth. Of course, he has his own bend on reality.

I've been studying Orchid's reverse babble. But how do I deal with words that are okay on the surface but have nothing underneath? I know he's going to do this. I need to handle it in a non-LB way. He will say all the right words to his parents. They will feel good until they reflect upon them. I know I'm going to get the blame if anything blows up. Help!

HC,

You can't have things both ways....you can't have a happy pretend family Christmas, AND challenge his fogese and expose him. So ignore what ever he says....the truth will rise to the surface no matter how he tries to "spin" it. Suspend your grievances for the one day since it was your goal to provide a reasonably normal Christmas for your children.

HC,

Sorry to have to write this:

But you've simply gotten yourself into an impossible situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Unfortunately, in all likelihood...no matter how this goes down...your going to end up feeling Poorly afterward.

Really wish you'd have just stood your ground and just let this Christmas pass without agreeing to put "everyone" in this most difficult and awkward of positions.

I mean really: Isn't Everyone (you, kids, grand parents) going to be at the very least "uncomfortable" during this whole time??
I mean the Tension is going to be floating around like a Haze.
You really think the kids won't notice or be effected by it. (wishful thinking maybe)

Even if its not a "disaster".....its still NOT going to accomplish anything positive.

If I was you....I'd call and cancel, before you actually get into the situation ....And then end up REGRETTING it!

This will send the message to all concerned that "NO, things are not even close to OK around here....and I'm not going to continue Playing the Game and Pretending that they ARE!!"

Of course if you don't cancel ....You'll get through it.
(you'll be exhausted and emotionally "drained") ...but you'll get through it.

However, this precedent scares me for you.
That is letting "others" either influence or even "guilt" you into taking actions that you "KNOW" as you are agreeing to do them.....ARE WRONG for you and your situation.

(Yes, the excuse this time is "well, it Christmas and blah, blah, blah").

But guess what????
There will always be an excuse or some other "reason" for NOT doing what you know needs to be done (or NOT be done in this case).

I hope you nip this in the bud and get back "control" of your situation.
Stop giving your Power away to WH or his parents. (or Anyone else for that matter!)

Hope your Christmas is as good as it can be. (crossing my fingers!)

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

Star*fish and top rope, I know you're both right. I've set myself up. I'm going to proceed with the Christmas thing. Six out of 7 of us will be happy. WH is the person who I hope spends the entire day squirming like a worm on a hook. He's the one who has a lot of uncomfortable questions coming his way.

To be honest, WH has never been a big part of our celebrations anyway. He has always been a shadow man. There but never hooked in. He usually takes a lot of pictures. That will be good because we won't have to see him. I can probably get through the whole dinner without much contact.

I'm going to bite my tongue a lot and take long walks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But how do I deal with words that are okay on the surface but have nothing underneath?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ideas:

"That version of the story sounds good, unfortunately, it is not true."

"That's an incomplete telling of what happened."

"I hear what was said. It is not true."

"My heart gets heavier with every pretty lie."

Keep it simple.

Do not support lies or half-truths.

Then... move the conversation to something you choose to talk about.

Pep

***Star*fish and top rope, I know you're both right. I've set myself up. I'm going to proceed with the Christmas thing. Six out of 7 of us will be happy.***

No, they won't. Six out of seven will be extremely uncomfortable at the charade that is going on all around them on what *should* be happy celebration.

***WH is the person who I hope spends the entire day squirming like a worm on a hook. He's the one who has a lot of uncomfortable questions coming his way.***

No he won't, Carol. This is the part you are missing. He is the only one who will be pleased as punch at the celebration because he's getting exactly what he wants for Christmas. He's getting to live with his girlfriend *and* still go home to the happy family Christmas celebration! If any of you seem uncomfortable, well, he will consider that *your* problem. Hey, it's clear to him that you are already coming around and seeing things his way. Nobody is saying a word about him moving out to be with another woman. They're all welcoming him with smiles and gifts and open arms and a lovely dinner. What could be better?

I know what's going through your mind. You honestly think that your WH will see be hurt and miserable at seeing what he's lost -- but Carol, HE HASN'T LOST A THING! That's the message you are sending -- that he can abandon you and the kids for another woman but still be welcomed home for the holidays. He will be VERY VERY RELIEVED and VERY VERY HAPPY because THAT'S WHAT HE HOPED WOULD HAPPEN ALL ALONG!

He's not going to be one bit miserable. He gets to go straight from one family to another, just as he wanted. Sure, his girlfriend might complain for a while, but he can manipulate her into going along with the situation the same way he manipulated his wife into going along with it. It's a win-win situation for him.

You, on the other hand, are going to be teaching your kids that it's okay to let their father have two families and that they have to pretend it's okay no matter how painful it is for them. You'll be teaching them that appearances are what really count, and that they are expected to stuff their true feelings so that things can Appear to be all nice and happy on the surface.

And you will also be left with the gut-wrenching memories of your own pain and humiliation on Christmas Day as your husband thanks you for the lovely time and then walks out the door to go have sex with his girlfriend.

The alternative? Stick to your guns and don't use the excuse of Christmas to cave in to your husband's emotional abuse. Be honest with your kids and your family about why WH is not there -- "He has a girlfriend, and married men do not have girlfriends. He has chosen to be with her instead. We are all hoping he will come to his senses, but we can't do that for him and he can't be here until he does because it's very cruel to us."

Then have a peaceful holiday with the rest of the family and know that at least YOU are not living a lie. Take control of this situation yourself instead of waiting and waiting and waiting for your WH to do it.

Also, look up the MB article on Radical Honesty. I think it applies perfectly to this situation. Martyrdom is not needed here. Honesty is.

Good luck.
Mulan

OK-I am in a similar boat this yr. Friday evening I am taking my kids to WH's family get-together and I have (after a lot of soul searching) decided to stay and visit b/c they love me and I miss them. I asked WH what he thought and he said that was fine-he expected me to go anyway. Now, I KNOW I am giving in to him and he is getting what he wants, but my kids want me there and I want to be there for them-THEY are the most important.

The real kicker is that WH is spending christmas eve night HERE w/ me and the kids so he can wake up Christmas morning w/ the kids. I am going to let him-although I know it is the wrong thing to do-but yet again I want this to be happy for the kids.

MY gift to me is when all this is over me and a g-friend (and a fellow BS-her WH is in jail at the moment) are going on an overnight "get away from it all" on Mon. My WH is watching the kids and I am getting a break-kinda a "you made it through the holidays-congrats!"

Good luck-just remember it will be over soon enough!

Carol,

2001 was my horrible Christmas. I had (still have!) 2 boys, and I had just given birth to our daughter.

Our family tradition has been that my inlaws come to our home on Christmas day.

I had my husband home for Christmas and so can you.

First off, the question is, are you in Plan A or Plan B?

If you are in Plan A, I don't think its a bad thing you have him for Christmas.

Your kids need their dad, and it also means that dad is with YOU and kids, not OW. Don't lose a chance to put a little thorn in her side =)

If you are in plan A, you need to put on your Plan A hat for christmas. Who cares what he says?

I had to learn to just accept that when my husbands lips were moving, that they were lying. And I stopped worrying about what he said.

SO WHAT if he says the sky is blue?

I learned to say things like: "I see...", or "Oh?" or just little noises that showed I was listening....in a neutral fashion.

This isn't about being right hun, this is about saving yourself and saving your family and maybe saving your marriage.

Winning the argument will NOT fix anything. This is certainly not the place to try to win your inlaws over.

Hold your head high, do your plan A Christmas.

Let him see what he will be losing, and let his OW have christmas by herself.

Enjoy your kids happiness at having dad on a very important day for THEM.

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

HC - I see we are about the same age & have kids pretty close in age as well. I ditto what BrambleRose says. It is BR who taught me so much on these boards and showed me the way to peace of mind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know I'm going to get the blame if anything blows up. Help!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HC - You can only get the blame if you ACCEPT the blame, so just don't do it. You are responsible for yourself, and for your kids up to a certain age, that's it.

Like BR says, make it a wonderful day. If something blows up - so what. Shrug it off & decide not to let it ruin the day. Just relax. I know it's easier said than done. There were ( and are) times when I literally under my breath say " I'm calm, I'm calm....." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

WH does the same thing - he's the master of telling people what they want to hear. To me, I watch his actions not his words. BR & orchid helped me alot with the idea that everytime WH opened his mouth it was a lie. That was easier to deal with. IF ( IF) his actions spoke the truth, then I would respond.


Have a Merry Christmas!

D.

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>