This is a post of mine from another thread.

It deals with the fact that at least two of my teenagers now know and the negative thoughts I have towards OM bc his kids don't know.

Thoughts?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This whole issue brings up a question that I have been internally wrestling with for awhile.

My wife and I have teenage kids. They are very astute. They were never told however, ever since the affair, they have expressed deep anger towards my wife. Attitude can't be explained away as typical teenage behavior.

Just the other day I was having a talk with one of them after a "disagreement" with mom. I was asked pointedly, "Did Mom cheat on you?"

Needless to say I was caught completely off guard. My instinct was to lie but I didn't know what they knew. I probably should have said," you need to talk to Mom about that."

I ended up partially telling the truth and partiall lying. I told her," if you define cheating as having a friend of the opposite sex that becomes closer to you than your spouse, then yes. If it's the traditional definition then, no."

I lied not to protect my wife, but I have teenage girls and I was worried that they have enough pressure on them (thanks to all of the high school issues) without shouldering more burden.

Any thoughts? On what I said as well as future conversations????

Ok this leads to more questions.

The OM and his W have younger children. I think like 10ish and 6ish.

I hate to admit this in the public forum but I will for the sake of discussion:

Now that my kids know I feel as though someday his should. My wife is no longer on the pedestal so why should he be? They've lost some of their innocence.

I guess I'm just venting a bit here.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mac

Hi Mac

Much as it's unfair and sucks, I don't think it's up to you to tell his kids, if I'm reading you right and that's what you're suggesting. Did you ever tell his wife? Probably too late now as it's only recommended here if the A is still going on.

Are things going quite well with you and w?

BTW, Merry Christmas to you and yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen

KiwiJ,

How the heck are you? Wife and I are doing better. It's relative though since this past year has been a rollercoaster ride. Summer time was the pits. I was ready to walk out the door. My resentment level was thru the roof bc of the wife's response to the affair and her "fighting me every step of the way" (her words not mine) on truth issues.

Telling his kids was only a small portion of my post. I also said I was venting at the end. I also said I hated to admit it which may tell you that I'm not likely to act on it.

Most dealt with what to tell teenage girls who know. On one hand I don't want to lie but on the other I don't want to put additional psychological burden on them. As I said, teenage girls have enough to think/worry about especially here in So Cal and the OC.

Yes I told his wife last September when I finally learned the truth ie physical nature & soul mate nature of the affair. There has been no contact with her since one follow up call in Feb. I didn't even call her when he e-mailed my wife since it has seemed to stop.

Are you having the traditional Kiwi Christmas? Pinic?

Hope all is well with you and Rob.

Mac

hey CW,

As usual, you raise a very pertinent quesiton.

IMHO, I think all children (even young ones), s/b told. It is best if both tell but if the WS is too stuck in the fog, then the BS needs to be the one to spill the beans.

In our case, the WS told his son he needed to move out. No mention of the A. That info came later.

Son who was 6 at the time, kept asking why his dad had to move out. I answered his questions as best as I could and then directed him to his father.

Son asked if his father had a girlfriend. I asked son to define what girlfriend meant. In son's definition it was a friend like a neighbor or classmate. I said GF in that sense w/b like a neighbor or a workmate and that w/b fine. However, I asked if dad decided to get a girlfriend to replace mom, what would he think? Son immediately said that was wrong and no one should do that. Son didn't say he dad didn't do that.

I agreed and said the same way I can't replace my H or your dad with another, unless 1 of the parents, break God's law and not want t/b married for anymore. Then I explained that God gave marriage to families to help them stay together but sometimes, people think they are smarter than God and try to have more than 1 H or W. Then I asked if he thought that would make it harder on the the children. At first he said no but later said yes.

I told son we (he and I) would not abandon each other by moving away from each other. Didn't say if H abandoned us or not, let son come to his own conclusion since the WS was already living out in a rented room in another town.

Our weekly discussions played a big part in my son finally deciding to write a letter to his dad that reached through the fog and slapped the WS upside the head. Also our commitment to each other to stick together, provided support for both of us.

Children do not like to be lied to. Hiding the facts to paint a different pix is lying. Tempering the facts so as not to overload our chlidren requires using tact but in the long run, the children s/b able to see we have their best interests at heart. Lying doesn't provide that kind of comfort.

JMHO,
L.

Hi again Mac

You sound a lot more "up" than you were a few months ago.

I think teenagers need to know. An A is one of those things that, in my opinion, always eventually comes to light - sometimes years later.

My sister and I are almost sure my late father had an A. We have no proof whatsoever and have certainly never mentioned it to my mother. But we both had a "feeling" when we were 13 and 16 respectively and only mentioned it to each other when we were in our 30s.

And a traditional kiwi christmas? I wish. The weather is terrible so it'll be sit down to turkey and all the trimmings at my cousin's house. We may even need to turn the heating on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm also glad to hear you stuck around with your w. It was touch and go there for a while I recall.

Jen

I took a "Co-Parenting for Divorced Parents" class (mandatory for D in FL), and learned something from the facilitator that I will never ever forget.

She said, DO NOT LIE, do not play games, do not try to manipulate, gloss things over, or try to throw your ex-spouse under the bus, because, ONE DAY THEY WILL BE ADULTS, ONE DAY THEY WILL HAVE ALL THE FACTS, AND ONE DAY IT WILL JUST CLICK...and they will be beyond angry and feel supremely betrayed if they discover thay you played a part in trying to mislead them.

Now, I am not saying that your children need every sordid detail. I do not agree with that either.

But, I would wager they already know. And, that half lie, half truth, crazy, non-sensical explanation for what WW did is not likely to be believed for two seconds. And now, now they will not know who to trust. Not only does WW, Mom lie, but now, now BH, Dad, lies to them too.

I think perhaps you and your FWW should talk and POJA about what to tell them. The truth, simply, and without much of the details that they really do not need, is enough. And more than that, the testament of forgiveness, and accountability, and sacred COMMITMENT will mean a lot to them.

But, I am not minimizing the major SCARS that will be there forever on us and our children for the rest of our lives.

Good luck. This is hard, no matter what!

Orchid,
First. Thanks for the response.

The wife and I had told the kids a year ago that Mom and Dad were going through a tough time. Of course, they had already figured that out. Duh. We also told them we would do whatever we could to make things better.

They haven't been told of the affair. Part of this was bc my wife ended the affair after DDay1.

My oldest figured it out very shortly after DDay1, but kept it inside and we got a doible dose of the teenage tude. I think she figured it out bc mom was dumb enough to take the girls on a boat ride with OM a month prior to DD1. Oldest is the most astute. My guess is that she saw some body language/ looks between the two.

I guess I'm looking for specific advice on how to handle it from here.

Mom should probably sit down with the daughters and discuss it.

I guess I was hoping to get thru the teen years b4 discussing it.

Mac

Serendipity,
I think my response to my daughter was along the lines of not telling the sordid details. IOW I admitted in so many words that Mom had an EA. What I didn't say is that it was also a PA and mom and freind had sex. To me that's the sordid details that they don't need to know. An EA is just as devastating to most BSs as a PA.

I especially don't think they need to know about the sex bc of the undue pressure that they feel towards peer pressure and sex. I could tell stories about the teenagers in OC that would curl the hair of all of you good red-staters.
(I say red-staters just to highlight more conservative areas of the country)

One of the daughters has a boy friend and I know she's getting pressure. I think the knowledge of mom having sex with another man will push her over the edge. "Mom used her sex to get what she wanted/ needed" type attitude.

By the way w/out imput from the MBers and of course our MC, my wife wouldn't say a peep about it. She being the ultimate conflict avoider.

Mac

KiwiJ response coming

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Jen,
I am more upbeat and posative about me as well as wife.

I still have my days. I took a class with a counselor who is a behaviorist and she basically showed us that "thoughts create the mood not the other way around."

Sorry to hear that there'll be no beach picnics this year.

Merry Christmas.

Mac

bump

Cwmac,

I usually stick to posting on the R board, but read your thread here and have to tell you we just went thru this ourselves..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As sad as Reality is......if we "lie" about it,it becomes so much worse on the teens!! They already have pretty good ideas on what "happened"....as I found out myself with my 2 daughters....Our TEENS know more usually than they let on....and when your D asked you this questions just realize that your response was the ANSWER. She knows. Im sure that you and your W want to spare them the heart-ache but If your D's ideas are already a reality to her........your "covering up" the truth will only make her feel YOU are the one betraying her too..... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I so know how you and your W feel. My H had to sit with my girls and let them VENT and let them ASK ANYTHING they NEEDED to know......most of the questions didn't have answers like "how could you sleep with someone besides my MOTHER???"....

For my girls the most important questions they had seemed to be about OP's children!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Did H meet them??? Did he like them??? Did he take them anywhere etc.....kind of like the ????'s a BS has about the relationship only from a kids angel....

It's very HARD but once the "cats out of the bag" if the truth is not discussed.....your Girls may feel your betrayal as much as their moms....My suggestion is let W talk tell them the TRUTH.

Yes they will rebel against her.....that is just pretty much guaranteed but the alternative is that they feel unsafe with BOTH of you....

Good luck with it. It was NOT THE best time of our life knowing our kids would be hurt but lies hurt worse than the truth in this kind of situation.

We all want to "protect" our kids.....that is instinct. But W was not thinking about protecting them when she decided to have A and thus put you both in this situation. KIDS are way smarter than we want to believe!!!

Blessings,
Atruheart

Atruheart,
Thanks for the response especially during the holidays.

We were going to tell them but were going to wait until they were older and a bit more mature.

I know that my wife should handle it but I guess I'm a bit nervous that she'll bend the truth a bit to protect herself.

Should I be present?

Should we talk to9 each girl one on one?

How about the 13 y o who truely knows nothing?

Our MC said discuss it with the two that know but wait a bit for the youngest.

Since none of them know about the PA, should we leave it at an EA? As I said earlier an EA is just as bad, especially to women.

Background info: ife never moved out, never threatened divorce, never showed any sign that she wanted to live with OM. There's a reason for that.

So except for that one boat ride and the fact that Dad was crazy for about 6 months. I don't think they really know anything else.

Mac

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

cwmac,

It is extremely important that you and your W POJA on this most important subject so that BOTH of you can show your daughters a united, loving front with a beautiful example of the power of love, forgiveness and redemption in a marriage. If you do this, there's a good chance that you will BOTH earn the respect of your girls.

Good luck.

TMCM

I agree with the others especially about the POJA and you & wife talking to them together to show a united front.

It is extrememly important in my opinion that the opinions your girls have of her, the respect is not damaged. It will hurt your daughters I think if they are forced to look at your FWW in a bad light.

I would not tell them about the sex UNLESS they specifically ask. If your wife is close to the girls they will probably ask her about that at some time in the future, wouldn't you think? I am very honest about SF with my 10 year old, however I draw the line on my personal SF life. I think that some things are private, even with your kids.

I was very close to my mom, as my DD is with me so I know at some point when she is an adult I will be asked SF questions about myself from her, and this is a good thing but I also think there is a natural time for this to occur. If she asks me when she is older what happen between her Dad and me, I probably will tell her. I just hope that I can do it in a way to preserve her respect for her Dad. I don't want her to blame him for our failure as a couple, even though I do.

CWMac I can tell from your concern & desire to do the right thing that you will find the right words to minimize any possible fallout between the girls and their mom.

cwmac,

You may want to convey to your W [if you haven't dones so already] that disrespect by the girls towards her is totally unacceptable to you and you will not tolerate it. This is a demonstration of your love and protection towards her and she will probably agree with you. Disrespect towards a parent is disrespect towards oneself.

TMCM

TMCM & Weaver,
Thank you both for your responses during the busy holiday weekend. Didn't have a chance to respond.

TMCM,
I agree on the POJA. My wife knows that something needs to be said, but I think she's at a loss. She's a conflict avoider so her idea of POJA is to say nothing.

My wife knows that this type of behavior is completely unacceptable to me. The ironic thing is that in the past I'd come to her "defense" with the kids, but she never appreciated it. Since she is such a big conflict avoider, it actually hurt me in her eyes and assisted in the "atmosphere" that led to her affair.

Weaver,

Your comment...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...however I draw the line on my personal SF life. I think that some things are private, even with your kids.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you. This is how I feel about it. To me, if one of the girls asked whether MOM and OM had sex would be like them asking us which sexual position we like best.

I do think they need to know about the affair in general terms. It happened. Mom feels ______ about it. Dad feels _____ about it. We are working on recovery.

I do think that the girls do notice a change in our relationship over the past six months. They can tell that we are connected again. We spend time together. We present a united front in dealing with them.

Thanks again all.

If any others have personal experience, please share. Has anyone had a long term negative reaction by a child??

Mac

<small>[ December 27, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Mac, SF was never mentioned with our adult children.

Rob told them both "Mum has had an affair with her old H/S boyfriend. It's over now and we're staying together."

End of any "personal" details. Of course, both my kids are adults and know exactly what "affair" means. They don't know how long it went for or any other detail. They both know Rob rang his wife and were both THRILLED. In fact daughter was going to ring his wife as soon as she found out but we stopped her. Poor woman didn't need a spitfire ringing her right then.

Occasionally, I get little "digs" from daughter. I asked her not so very long ago if she ever wanted to hear the whole story from me and she said "not particularly".

I told the story about my sister and I and what we felt about my father because as everyone here has said, kids pick up on far, far more than adults give them credit for.

Jen

Hi Jen,
Thanks for the response.

Didn't get a chance to see it or reply last night.

I appreciate the feedback. Wife and I are going to discuss this at the next MC so we can develope a plan.

How's your "new" job going?

Good winter storm here in so Cal this week.

Take care,

Mac

Hi Mac,

Talking about it in MC and deciding on a plan is a wonderful idea.

It is really, really good to hear you sounding so calm and together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You really had us worried a while ago - so much anger and bitterness and hurt.

Thanks for asking about the job. I love the university - it's so different from the corporate world - I love the whole atmosphere of learning and knowledge. The difficult woman I have to deal with is still being difficult though but I have hopes of really breaking through to her one day - or even better, she may leave. LOL.

Jen