A little background.. Confrontation .

I found out last nite that OM contacted W about 6 weeks ago, but I had to wring the info out of her. She has not seen him in about 6 months and that was a chance encounter at a restaurant when I was with her, so she cound not talk to him. Somehow he got her new cell #. She swears that she did not give it to him, and damnit! I believe her. Said the conversation only lasted 5 minutes and asked him to not call anymore, and said he has not.

After my intial anger for being lied to (I suspected that contact had been made) she said she doesn't love me romantically. Said that we never had a connection sexually, that sex was always forced with me, but not with him (this is BS I remember sex with her when we first started dating. Said she is not sure she can love me like that again. Am about 95% sure no physical contact has occured in 7-8 months.

We live in Italy, and move back to the States in the summer, so the OM will be out of the picture forever in a few months. Wants to do MC back in the States and see if we can recover.

What to y'all think? Is it hopeless? W is a romantic, so she would not just jump into bed with a man, needs more. Will she ever see A for what it was? Will she ever see OM as typical womanizing Italian? (This country is sickening it that regard) Will she ever see that she fell for the most cliche and old pickup lines men use to screw married women? I exposed in March, and I am still getting fog, I just can't take much more of this.

Fog takes a long time to lift. Let her know that it is hard for you to find her as sexually attractive as well. Let her stew on those thoughts.

If she asks why, say you don't know why. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

Orchid.

Thanks for the reply and Merry Christmas!

If I said I don't find her sexually attractive, she would laugh at me. She knows I find her extremly sexy. Another problem is that my libido has not decreased since I was 19, may even be higher now. I have the libido of a teenager, the stamina (when I can get SF) of an experienced lover, and often no where to find release.

I recently spurned the advances of an extremely sexy Italian woman, that was pretty tough. She knew I was married too, these people have no morals.

Betrayed,

All the WS's on here say that after they finally wake up, thoughts of the OP make them sick. Even the few girls I know in my life who have had hot, steamy affairs say the same.

Give it time. And yes there is LOTS of hope! I think you have the right idea about things changing when you are back stateside.

If you are always after her for SF, I might back off a bit. Sometimes women do an about face when their man holds back a bit. Gets them to wondering, and sometimes that is a very good thing!

betrayed man,

Let the anger cool down. Don't do plan A ... don't do 180 degree ... don't do plan B ... don't do plan Dv ... however don't LB.

You are working too hard in this R. She is the one wayward ... let her do convincing that she wants M. Pull back and just wait 'till you are back to states.

You have unrepentant WW on your hand when you took her back ... this is what you get. Sorry. There are step to follow on "How A should end" and steps that she has to take to avoid resentment.

-rh-

redhat,

Actually she feels very guilty, and hates to hear the word affair. She is very religious, and has a hard time dealing with herself spiritually. Definitely very confused, and has said before that she wishes the A had never happened b/c of the pain she is going thru and what she has put me thru.

bm
being a FWW I think I can understand a bit where your WW is right now.
What she is doing is refusing to admit to herself and you that her AFFAIR was ugly.

That is why she doesn't like the word, what about ADULTERY?? That’s even uglier but it is more accurate and leaves no room for prevarication.
Until she can admit this to HERSELF and YOU she will be in that fog and will say all the standard WW things like I love you but not THAT way sort of thing as you've been hearing.

You see to admit that to herself your WW will have to also admit that the OM was manipulative and used her. That’s hard for a WW to do because that would mean we cheated and committed adultery with NO EXCUSES, and in truth there are none. It took me a long while to realise that.

In fact I think weaver & redhat are right, you are doing TOO MUCH and your ww is just sitting in neutral not having to do much.
Yes I can certainly accept she really is feeling guilty BUT that’s different from actively working on the M even in little ways. She not at all right now by the sounds of it.

When I first told my H - his D day - the SF was more and often and in a way it let me off the hook so to speak, I didn't have to really face the music right away. Then he wanted questions answered and I wouldn't do it, felt frankly it would hurt our M more and he would leave if I did answer. Guess there is always the risk of that.

However, what this did was create in my H a growing resentment and disgust that got to such an extent that he could not actually touch me, if I approached him he would stress out and make as much distance between us as he could. He told me it made him sick to be touched by me.

That’s when panic set in with me and I HAD to do something, get help, get counselling that helped me ans his questions and work on our M.

So I do suggest you withdraw some or all SF from your wife, not in anger or spite/revenge, but in a coolly planned move to let HER wonder and worry about the M and you.
Please do not expect a miracle. it takes time, perhaps a lot of time. But please know that if you go on like you are all it does is reinforce her idea of 'well its over lets get on with life' very much my own thoughts early on & from what my IC/MC says is just about a guarantee for Dv for most people.

I know that SF is in a way a reinsurance to you right now that the M can work, but its really not helping you get the OM out of your lives. He may physically be gone but his spirit is well & truly coming between you still. Frankly I think it would do some good to tell her that the OM is coming between you in that area. And its true isn't it??

Once you are back in the US get help urgently but now do what you can.
I wish you could have a happier Xmas but you have my well wishes & I hope a better time than recently.

aussieswife,

Could you please explain a little more about what you mean by this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But please know that if you go on like you are all it
does is reinforce her idea of 'well its over lets get on with life' very much my own thoughts early on & from what my
IC/MC says is just about a guarantee for Dv for most people. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

betrayed man,

You have to match her words with her actions. If she is repentant, you have to tell & help her out :

1. Who is she that she can't forgive herself ?. Christ had dies on the cross to redeem us from our past, present and future sins.

2. A happens b/c of un-fulfilled EN(s), let OM fillin it and spent enough time to let him do it. Anyone could fall into A !.

4. In-Love feeling to OM is real !, she need to drained it out w/ NC. Until withdrawal is done, recovery can't start.

3. Both of you need to do 4 rules of recovery to build LU$ in each other LB$ to overcome resentment.

I would call Harley's or Cerri to get counseling, it doesn't matter wherever you are, it is via. phone !, hope they have calling card in Italy.

Could you let her read true’s heart letter to ws ?

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed man:

I recently spurned the advances of an extremely sexy Italian woman, that was pretty tough. She knew I was married too, these people have no morals.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What makes you think that that people like that don't exist here? My XWW [first W] had plenty of fellow americans hitting on her knowing full well she was a married woman, and many of them became her lovers. Would you have been that tough in your indictment of our nation if your WW's OM had been an american instead of an italian? My point is that just because the OP is a foreigner, it doesn't justify indicting an entire nation just because of him/her.

TMCM

P.S. FYI both my W and I have been hit on by fellow americans who KNEW we were married people.

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Well BM lets see if I can explain it a bit better at least from my own experience.

When I told my H of the affair it was already over. Not because the OM & I chose to give it up but that his wife gave him an ultimatum, move to the Eastern States with me or I'll go by myself..he left without even a goodbye so I eventually worked out how much I was to him. ZIP.

Now I never had any intention of leaving my M, the OM was never the love of my life, he was a peer I turned to because I assumed my H couldn't help me & wouldn't understand. It was as if the OM & affair was in one box and my H and family in another box. I felt I could take one at a time without any effecting the other - Not only crazy but simply stupid. Oh and wrong by the way.

So when I told my H I fully expected him to be angry but to know that it was over, I had always chosen him and this was no different and that now we could simply put this behind us and go on with 'normal' life. I mean afterall, he KNEW I never intended to leave him because I SAID SO.
This was the crazy thinking process many of us WW at that time go through. Different words but similar intent.

I simply could not understand - or rather I did not want to understand - how he could not see my logic. I wanted him to 'just get over it' and lets start over with normal life.
I totally disregarded his pain and hurt because I didn't see it as being such a big thing, I mean yes I KNEW I had hurt him, felt guilty, but thought he should move on with me becasue look he must be ok as the SF is good. I was still in a type of fog, perhaps a withdrawal because of the suddeness of the affair ending. I mean how dare he not trust me!! Yep very foggy.

It seems VERY VERY strange to me now.

The SF up to this time was intense and was obviously partly guilt. Keeping my H 'happy' so he would leave 'it' - the affair and questions - alone. Only works for so long.

Then when I finally realised the depth of his pain & hurt, when there was no SF or touching, suddenly I understood I was loosing him. If I am honest with myself I'm not sure that if he hadn't made me see his pain & hurt I would have ever told him anything in detail. Thats like an ucler just waiting to burst & probably M terminal. He would not have accepted it and I don't think you are either from your WW.

If your WW is at this stage of the rollercoaster ride, and is thinking about telling you or not telling you, if you reinforce the WRONG message she will simply go with that.

Should she undertake to tell you everything take it up if thats want you want, but pls remember you will also need to advise her to start working on forgiving herself too. Thats hard and I haven't done it yet.

I really recommend a good MC, the phone one like the Harleys do I understrand is excellent so maybe you can use that in Italy to start of until you get home to the US.

You know this is the first holiday period since D day and it hurts to know what I have done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

First of all, thanks to all for replying.

I agree that I need to withdraw and put the ball in W's court. But, how? I am married with 2 daughters, I can't just ignore my W. How exactly do you do that? I will stop pushing for SF, but with my libido, it will be tough.

For TMCM, in Italy, cheating is the rule, not the exception. The States are a monastery compared to here, even my W agrees! Add to the fact, as a Naval Officer, I make in salary 5-6 times what an Italian makes, I am a very desirable target. Does it happen that way...all the time. Also, you have no idea how sexy and alluring an Italian woman can be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed man:
<strong>But, how? I am married with 2 daughters, I can't just ignore my W. How exactly do you do that? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't ignore her, you just a bit distant in term of emotional. If she asks, tell her "you need your space for right now". You reward her if she fillin your ENs otherwise you keep your distant. Let her do the work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Does it happen that way...all the time. Also, you have no idea how sexy and alluring an Italian woman can be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmm ... I should take vacation over there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Fishing at different market <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed man:

For TMCM, in Italy, cheating is the rule, not the exception. The States are a monastery compared to here, even my W agrees! Add to the fact, as a Naval Officer, I make in salary 5-6 times what an Italian makes, I am a very desirable target. Does it happen that way...all the time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've travelled to quite a few countries around the world and one thing I can tell you that is different is that in many of them the folks, specifically the men, are very blatant and they view cheating on their spouses as an entitlement, a badge of honor if you will. Here in the States I've found that folks pay lip service to fidelity, preach moral values but secretly live their lives in total contradiction of their public image. I have friends who work as private investigators and you'd be amazed at what they have told me with regards to the secret lives of our fellow countrymen. It is their experience, and that of the rest of the P.I. community, that more than half of the married people in this country have been unfaithful to their spouses at one time or another. So if you think that American men are less predatory than Italian men, think again.

TMCM

Well, I must be doing a pretty good job keeping my emotional distance. When I got home from the gym this afternoon, I said hi to W, kissed my girls and went and made a snack. Usually I will ask W how the day was going, etc. Not today, in fact as she was just leaving, she asked what was wrong, why was I so quiet. I said no reason, she looked at me wierd and left. I could tell that she was trying to "read" me , but was confused and left. The real trick will be to keep this up for a while. I am also worried about her mis-reading me as I am pushing her away.