Well, my WW is now starting to spread rumours, and how I am a psycho, controlling etc - something that has very little truth. But now her parents are starting to believe it, and actually said to a friend of mine 'i can understand now, why she left'. The truth of the matter, is I have been accommodating, but sometimes I try to hold something against her, nothing big, maybe some of our shared household possessions etc. All along though, my WW is saying to people 'you dont know what he is really like' etc. There has never been anyone currently involved that have seen any interaction with myself and my WW, indeed when they have she has been the one with the agression and name calling. So, they are obviously just going by what she says.

Is there anyway to combat this? I dont want to have these vicious lies thrown around about me. She has also said, there is a man she is close to, who she relies on for emotional support...

That is, unfortunately, a very common thing for a WS to do. Psychologically, it's often an example of projection -- that is, ascribing to you, the BS, traits that they, the WS, don't like in themselves and can't admit to themselves that they have. For example, my WW -- who was in fact sexually abused as a teenager -- decided at one point that I "must have been" sexually abused as a child. This was at the same time that she redefined her abuse experience as a "consensual" relationship that "had no effect on her." (No doubt it's just a coincidence that her OM is 20 years older than she is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Anyway, since you asked for advice about how to combat this tendency, there's nothing you can _say_ to her (or to your in-laws). But you can do two or three things: (1) pray (for patience for yourself, for them to have insight, for God to work all things together for the good); (2) try not to dwell on the false accusations; and (3) disprove them by the way you live your life, especially any interactions you have to have with WW and her parents.

Wishing you the true peace that truly passes understanding,
SurvivingInNC

They all say that sort of thing......"controlling, doenst understand me, etc". Its a way of justifying what they do. They are in a fog of self preservation. They will say anything that makes them look like the good guy & you the bad guy. The in laws will jump on the wagon too sometimes...not all the time. I have heard of in laws that turn against their child due to their waywardness. Other times though they will start the whole justifying game too. Sad sad world.

SINC wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Psychologically, it's often an example of projection -- that is, ascribing to you, the BS, traits that they, the WS, don't like in themselves and can't admit to themselves that they have. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YEP! That is my STBX. She projects her own behavior onto me.

Confused, you can expect lots a attacks on your character like that. I haven't seen a BS on this board who hasn't had the same experience.

But let us remember too, none of us here are angels... even the BS. We all have our warts. But regardless of what was done, or not done, out of malice or ignorance, beginning an affair is never justified. BS we did not choose to have an affair instead of saving our families. The WS made that choice.

Thats right, the WS seems to totally ignore anything they might have done that was damaging to the relationship. All the while focusing on extreme details of your misgivings & mistakes, usually ones that happened long ago. Someone posted this on an earlier post:

All WS seem to follow this plan, at least mine did.

1. denying and continuing an affair, even after you've confronted him/her with reasonable suspicion, if not with caught-in-the-headlights evidence

2. claims the OP is "just friends."

3. Dredges up all kinds of trivial things from your past that "proves" your relationship was a big mistake

4. Still loves you, but is not "in love" with you

5. Is acting as if they have had their brains scrambled
Typical WS Actions

Its wierd, I would've expected her mom to listen to her and badmouth me, but the 'i can she why she left him' came from her father, whom I have always liked and gotten along with. Like I said, he has rarely been present during any exchanges, and the one time he was, was when my WW was exploding at me, and being very hostile. When she left the room, I told her dad that I couldnt speak to her, and I dont know what to do. He replied with 'I know, she is very aggressive'. That was roughly 3 weeks ago.

Part of me doesnt really care what they think, but it hurts knowing that she is spreading all these bad things about me. Initially most of her family, were thinking how messed up she was, but because I have not really spoken to any of her family members, they are now getting all this 'information' from her. I even gave her an xmas present yesterday in front of everyone, and then turned away and took my son for the rest of xmas...

Sorry man for having to go thru this garbage. It seems like same scenario that is constantly replayed over & over. I've been thru it too. Although having a child must make it harder. I dont understand how they can justify it when a child is involved. Its all extremely selfish.
Don't expect her family or mutual friends to rush to your defense. They won't at all if they dont have a strong moral conviction. Justification is the game that is played. What can they do anyway....talk to her? Thats about it. Even with all the reasoning & logic presented to them, the WS can simply ignore it all. They think they have the answers & that no one really knows what they are talking about esp if they oppose the WS's actions.
Just expect the worst. Dont do any LB's, no matter what. Let the WS humiliate themselves. Be prepared to be betrayed over & over.

Christmas is a rough holiday to go thru all this. This is my first without her. All holidays will be rough. I had the same thing happen to me, except on Valentines day of this year. She decided to go the OM's house that night. I was left alone crying & shaking. It amazes me what some people will do to other people sometimes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let the WS humiliate themselves. Be prepared to be betrayed over & over. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and over and over. It's a shame.

I know, it hurts ... a lot. After 5 years, she cant talk to me, abuses me on the telephone, employs her family and friends against me, and for them to come to the house to collect her things, holds me son against me etc etc Its tough knowing that her family and friends treats her like this is the best thing for her, and what she has done is totally acceptable. She left me and our house, took my son and everything from her end looks rosy. She doesnt want to reconcile the marriage, doesnt even want to work on it. Then she turns to friends and says all she wants is a break, when earlier it was all about 'its over','he is a psycho' etc etc

Part of me still struggles with the fact that it may be over. Do I still love her? Yes, part of me does, and the other part loathes her for what she has put me and our son through.

Yep thats the way it is done. They all seem to do that. Its all justification. Her family lacks any moral ground to see it for what it is. If you were yelling at her all day & were physically abusing her...thats a different story all together. That is justifiable. But getting involved with someone else while you are still married....there is no justification at all for that. I was told I was "emotionally abusive" by my WS. This after we had gone to MC for a few months. An after the fact sort of thing. "I was blind to what was happening...I didnt know what to call it back then.." What a load of fog. Its like they tried counseling knowing full well when one more mistake is made by us...they have an excuse to leave. It looks they gave it their all & tried to make it work. Dont fall for this tactic. Some WS are just as guilty of the accusations that they make towards their BS.

Exactly Jeffrey. Its all like 'i did all the work, i tried to save it' etc. when in fact it was exactly the opposite. I know my WW is talking (and seeing) OM. I try not to think about it, but I do reinforce in myself, that I was the best thing for her. Indeed as a couple we were great, something which she always bought up. After we got married (only 10 months ago!), it all suddenly changed. Maybe it is because she is only 23 (i am 28), and she feels over the last 5 years she missed out on a lot. I gave her everything she wanted, and indeed let her do anything that she wanted (not an affair of course!), and it still seemed like nothing I did was ever good enough for her.

It is really sad, and knowing how she has turned her parents against me (i never really got on with them in the first place), and her new friends (who dont even know me). All our mutual friends know she is doing the wrong thing, and it is an issue with her not with me (or us), but she ignores it all, and turns around and complains she has no friends! Indeed, my WW always had a lot of male friends before we got together, and now she is reversing back to that. Surrounding herself with other guys.

I know exactly where you are coming from. Your story sounds exactly like mine. When we got married she was 22 & we were together 2 years before that. I was there for her when no one else was. I thought she loved me. At the beginning she was reluctant to say the three words..."i love you" back to me. It hurt. Later though she would say it & I felt she truly did love me. She didnt have any male friends then, unlike your situation. It was just me & her bascially. Revolving my whole life around her was all that I did at the beginning. After being married for 2-3 years things changed. A new job brought new people into her life. People that had different morals & ideas about relationships. After a while, she had a male friend that I never met. I'll give her credit thougth, she did try to get me to meet him. But even then her friendship was inappropriate....going to football games & going out to dinner without me. I felt excluded. Not too long after that after taking a college class she had several male friends. It just esculated from there. These guys will do anything. They are not friends of the marriage. I tried to reason with her that I was uncomfortable about it all. She would not hear of any compromise. "I will do what I want to....you just dont want me to have male friends".....well yeah I dont. Now she is 28 & acting like a 21 year old. She too thought that she was missing out on things, at least thats what she told the counselor. I havent seen or heard from her in almost a year after it all fell apart. She is still in that fog of uncaring about someone she was with for almost 7 years.

So in essence I know exactly where you are coming from. The only advice I can give is for you to stand still & say nothing. Dont try to talk her out of what she is doing, because nothing you do will help. It will drive her away. She may feel you are trying to control her. Her new friends are much more important to her right now. Let her find out that they cant always be counted on. If they can flirt with a married woman, then later on they have the same inclination to do the same.

They sound very much the same Jeffrey. Are you 2 still married, is it heading for divorce?

My WW, always had male friends, then once we got together 5 years ago, she stopped talking to them - all done on her own accord. In fact, all of her friends before we got together she disowned, and she focused all her energy and time on me. As time moved by she got a few more friends (all girls) and they became mutual friends, but there was always something in my WW, that she could not hold onto a friendship for very long (maybe a year max), as once they did something she did not approve of, she cut them off forever.

Now, everything that she does is in secret, she doesnt let me know anything that is happening in her personal life. She has very little friends at the moment, except for one guy whom she has known for ages (whom she is relying on for 'emotional support'). It seems all these accusations about me being controlling, is more about her being controlling.

I have not mentioned our relationship for a few weeks now, and I have not asked her anything about what she is doing - i try to stay clear of it. She looks like she will never come around, and while part of me really wants to know what she is doing, there is no way I can find out - I certainly cannot ask her, as she wont answer me.

No, we are not married any more. I filed back in April of this year & it was finalized in May...just a week before our 5th anniversary. I hope it drove her crazy. She just acted like she didnt care at all. She sounded a lot like your WW in regards to friends becoming forgotten. If one of her friends did something to her...she cut them out entirely. It was more a matter of pride I think for her. SHe wasnt going to make the first move to reconcile with them. I really made her mad with me when I filed. I gave her co-workers a copy of some 'notes' she wrote to other guys while in her college class. She was totally humilated about that. I thought if she was proud enough to write them to other people, then why not let everyone read them. These notes were written last year (July 2003) during a college night class she took for her job. We were going thru counseling at the time....I wonder how she justified that. What goes thru someones mind when they do such things. I'll never understand her. I havent seen or heard from her since feb/march of this year. It has almost been a year. Im sure she has totally forgotten about me even after being with me for 6 1/2 years. Some people have no heart.

Is your WW involved with someone? Do you suspect anyone? I did from the very beginning. How could I not...we were in counseling at the time & I find perv notes written by her. Names of guys are spoken by her in normal conversation. I ask...she says..."they are just friends". That is a quote that should not be taken lightly. If they are just friends, then she can let that friendship go if the marriage means more. If she can't, then these so called friendships mean more than the marriage.

I do suspect she is, actually I am pretty sure she is. An old friend of hers reappeared about 2 months ago (they bumped into each other at a pub). The day after that, when I picked her up to take her home from work, she sprung on me that she was unhappy with the marriage, and wanted time apart etc etc I told her that we should work on it, and we went away for a week on a family holiday. I did not mention anything about our relationship, but towards the end of that week, she said she loved me a lot and really wanted to make it work. Since we returned from our holiday, she went maybe a week without contacting him, then it started again. It became more and more frequent, and escalated to the point that in any spare time she had, she would contact him, and she would resort to hiding her mobile phone, and deleting the messages from it. Often when she went out, she would also invite him (without me knowing at the time).

It came to a boiling point, when she went out one night, and told me she would be home at midnight. I awoke for some reason at about 3:00am in the morning, and she wasnt home. I tried calling her mobile, and there was no answer, until about the 4 or 5 time (these were spaced over about an hour). She told me she fell asleep at his house, and would stay there for the night. I told her it wasnt acceptable, and she agreed to come home. I didnt really talk to her much during the day, then come that night, she turned around and said she didnt love me anymore, that it was over etc etc

More than just coincidences I think. I have not confronted the OM yet. All along she has also said they 'are just friends'. I was thinking of sending the OM a TXT message, saying 'stay away from my wife'. But I have not decided yet. It has already been over a month since she moved out.

Maybe sending that txt message at the beginning of all this would have been a good thing. But she would have probably gotten mad with you.....cause...guess what, the OM was more than just a friend. IF he was just a friend..a platonic one...then she would have laughed it off. Maybe. Its hard to tell when deception is the norm rather than the exception in a WS's life. The cell phone has made it so much easier no days. Mine got a cell phone just so she could chat with her friends. Some were women, but I had the problem with guy friends. I have a hard time understanding how women can have guy friends. Usually the platonic guy friends are unattractive to the woman in question so they are just regulated to being friends. There is usually something about the guy that makes just be delegated as a friend (married, gf, childhood friend, etc) Looking at from the opposite point of view, women see female friends of men differently. They judge these female friends by comparing them to themselves. If they are not threatened, then it is ok by them. But the question is, why are they not threatened? I guess be aware of any male friends a woman may have. Guys want to be more than just friends...I know..I am a guy.

I will send something, just to get in their way. Probably over new years, when I have my son ... that way she cannot get anymore vindictive with me than she already has. I confronted her once before we separated and told her 'i dont mind if you speak to him, but why keep it such a secret' - she said that she wasn't that he was just a friend, and he was going through a rough stage because his girlfriend just left him (how convenient!). Anyway, after that, like i said, it was all secretive. I would see some of them and he would always say things like 'you are married .. ha ha ha'. I asked my WW why he would ask that, and she said that he never pictured her getting married, because he knew her so well!! What a bunch of balony. I also remember one time, she had called him from my phone while we were out, and the next morning before I realised, she had deleted his number from my phone. I never mentioned it, but she bought it up after separation saying 'I deleted his number, because he knows how controlling you are' .. I dont even know the guy, and he doesnt know squat about our relationship for the last 5 years.

Send the txt message & see what type of reaction you get. The are a few good books about this subject of 'friends'. "Emotional Infidelity & Not Just Friends". He is obviously more than just a friend. Friend's telephone numbers arent deleted. THe secrecy is the key here. She KNOWS it is more than just what she is trying to let it appear. SHe is trying her hardest to convince herself that what she is doing is ok. Justification. Its b/c you are controlling....you wear blue jeans....etc etc...always something stupid. I was told in an emergency counseling session I set up, that I was emotionally abusive. I think she really thought I was. All b/c I would make her feel guilty for doing some of the things she did. Of course all the stuff she brought up were things that happened 4-5 months prior. Long story.
TO be honest, your wife is not worth fighting for. I thought mine was. If she could do this once to me & we reconciled....later on when things eventually got a little rough...she could very well do it to me again. No reason to go thru this garbage twice in your life. The first time nearly killed me emotionally & drained my physically. Let her go. She wont change for you. She doenst love you enough to do it. SHe doesnt love your child enough as well. SHe is making all these rationalizations in her mind to justify what she does. It centers all around her & what she wants. Let this a__hole guy have her. THey are made for each other. Once a cheater...always one.

Yep, she will never admit it to me, not until the proof is in the pudding so to speak. If she wants him, then she can delude herself into thinking that he is better than me, that is fine. I know deep down, that she knows I am/was the best thing ever to happen to her, and she use to tell me that often. I know I did everything for her, and that the separation is not my fault entirely. She has a lot more issues to deal with than I do.

I have no doubt that our son, will be better off with me. The only problem is trying to convince the court of this. I also think deep down, that if she does hook up (if she hasnt already) with this other guy, then he will take a back seat, because I will ALWAYS be part of my sons life. Whether my WW likes it or not. The OM doesnt like kids much either, and it seems the only time they spend together is when he is not around. Once again it comes down to the WW being selfish and putting her needs before that of our sons. One day it will become to hard for her, and what direction she takes? Well, time will tell.