WAs it bad? No. Was it the best? No but okay.

My inlaws have left. WH has gone "home". It's early, so we can only hope he went back to his apt. Son #1 is off with his friend-who-is-a-girl's multiple blended family celebration. Son #2 is on the phone. Daughter is playing a video game. I'm sipping a little more Christmas Wine. A nice Argentine Cab.

WH showed up on schedule about 10 a.m. this morning. We'd already opened our stockings. But he had breakfast and we opened our presents. I'd warned the kids they were going to be bought and they were. A computer for one. A cell phone for another. A computer game for #3. It was okay.

WE had a nice family dinner. No LBs. Civil and pleasant conversation. A nice day all together. Nothing discussed. Just a nice day.

Tomorrow is our 28th anniversary. We have a date. As WH got in his car, I asked how it was going with "you know who". He says it's bad with her. As he drove away, I stopped him and said, "You know, bad is not the same as over." He said, Okay.

It was a more than adequate day. We were together as a family and relatively happy. Did WH go home? I don't know, can't prove what he did and don't really care. Did I feel degraded and put upon today? No. There were not a lot of awkward moments. It felt okay. It didn't feel okay he went to his apt. but I told him it was his choice. I cannot control these things.

Off to watch my new copy of Return of the King Extended version. This could keep me busy for the next year. Merry Christmas to ya'all. Didn't get to put that in before the board went down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtingCarol:
<strong>

Tomorrow is our 28th anniversary. We have a date. As WH got in his car, I asked how it was going with "you know who". He says it's bad with her. As he drove away, I stopped him and said, "You know, bad is not the same as over." He said, Okay.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can see what you did for X-mas in that you were swallowing your dignity for the others in the family to have a nice day. But going on some sham anniversary date while he is still screwing another woman behind--> well not really---? I mean in front of you is besides me.

I guess you know what you are doing. I could never look at myseklf in the mirror if I allowed myself to be so shamlessly disrespected. But, hey, Carol, do what you have to do to win your WH back. I hope that in the new year he gives you another chance to win him back.

LM

Lemon, Lemon, Lemon. Okay, blast away. I know that with any contact, I deserve to be chastised. However, I don't feel much of anything. I had only a few moments yesterday when I felt awkward. I made a lot of people happy. It was a good Christmas. As a woman, I find that nice. Women are very good at burying their feelings and needs and making things nice for others. Believe it or not, I don't feel degraded.

Do you want to know what I truly feel, Lemonman? I feel that WH was the shadowman he has always been. The important people were here yesterday and he was peripheral to the whole thing. Every Christmas, I always try to invite a "stray" to dinner. Generally, it's somebody who doesn't have family nearby or is at loose ends. WH felt like that person this year. A guest.

What do I feel about my marriage? I feel like I've been hurt enough. That if I can't get a straight answer out of him, NC with OW and accountability, then I have to mentally let go. Are we making progress? Yes. WH has changed with every MC session. Our next one on Tuesday should be interesting. We'll see what person he is then.

Whatever happens, neither one of us are the kind of people who stay angry for a long time. Even if we're not married, we will probably stay friends. Yesterday felt like a test run for that kind of relationship. We've been together a long time. We have children. We have drifted apart. Do I want to drift back together? I haven't entirely figured that out yet. Our D-day wasn't too long ago. Things are still settling out.

I don't believe that every marriage has to end with anger and fireworks. I have a good friend who is a role model for me in that respect. She and her husband are divorced but work as a team to minimize the effect on their 3 kids. They live close so their kids can attend school from either house. The parents go to kid events together. They lead separate lives but have a common ground in their kids. They are very civil to each other. She says they have a better relationship now than they ever did when they were married. Yesterday was important because my kids got to see their father and their grandparents. It truly was fun.

Lemonman, I love your reality checks. Your opinion is valuable to me. I'm a creative person and I generally do things my own way. Thanks for helping me stay on track.

I don't understand why you don't make the choice to REALLY WORK on your marriage.

HC, I gotta agree with Lemon. Why would you go on a date with WH if he is still with OW? I realize it is your 28th anniversary, but all the more reason to say lose the OW before we "celebrate" our 28th and most likely last if you don't.

Good luck

MIF


(I think I am going to be a lemonman jr. before too long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I guess I have to disagree with a lot on this thread.

First HC here is 2x4 #1. Why did you tell the kids they where going to be "bought"? Meaning their Dad was going to use big gifts to get them to love him?? I don't think so.. they need to be able to feel their Dad loves them (which I am sure he does) without the monetary incentive. His A is not about them...does it affect them? Absolutely...but he didn't do it because he was struggling with his feelings for them.

2x4 #2. Why did you even bring up the OW when he was leaving. Even if you day was great, something like that comes across as sticking the knife deep and twisting. Your WH knows he has hurt you...he knows what he has done and continues to do is wrong. He may even want to love you again...but as soon as you bring up the OW things will go south real quick. My WH has told me that he is desperately trying to get the OW out of his head, and when I say her name it starts the whole obsession process over. I said to him "DO you mean it is my fault" He says no but it isn't helpful. I can see his point. Nothing like someone eating chocolate cake in front of you when you are on a diet.

Finally NOT A 2x4....go on your date. Do not think of it as a SHAM. It is a time to show him that you still love him despite his choices. Tell him you married him not because you think he is perfect...tell him you married him because of X, Y, Z. Tell him you married him for better or worse and this is one of those "worse" times.
Do not bring up the OW. Talk about how great the kids are, tell him what you miss about him not being around, tell him you can do this without him but you would like him to be with you. Smile alot, be fun and enjoy him like you used to. If you go into as a SHAM it will end up that way.

Last week before I went out with my WH he took my wedding ring off and said he wanted to go out with his date. He feels that I work harder at being my old self when we are on "dates" and not the nagging, *****y wife. I can see his point there too. It makes him want to be with me and it gives me practice on being a loving, receptive spouse.

Anyhow...you made it through Christmas. He chose to be with you...you are still going to MC. I have hope for you Carol. I think he is starting to see the light, just keep it burning for him

WWH

Again I say, I have a lot that I would suggest to you Carole because your WH is like mine was in many ways. However, I don't want to invest the energy if you feel that you do not want my advice. Please let me know if you do.

I am a firm believer in the MB System. It has proven effectiveness. My FWH was a cake-eater. He wanted me and the OW. It would have lasted forever that way if I had let it go on. He is now in love with me and our marriage is truly better than ever. I would not settle for less than the best. I wanted all of my husband back. I think it is a shame that your therapist is going along with enabling your husband in his A.

The therapist does not evidence an understanding of the addictive nature of an A. An alcoholic cannot stop drinking by continuing to have occasional cocktails. It has to be accomplished cold turkey. This is the Harley belief if you read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR closely. Harley stated that he tried other methods with his clients which did not work.

Ooops, I've started giving advice. Do you want it or not? You say that you like to do things your way....

Also, I do not agree with your stereotypical statement that women hold in their feelings. That is not something to be proud of... Conflict avoidance is not healthy. I'm struggling to change that about myself daily....

I agree with Lemonman and Mimi here. If you want to enable your WH's affair and prolong the cruelty and insanity, then sure, go right ahead and go out on your "date."

But remember that you will not be going out with your H. You will be going out with WH. Is that what you want?

Carol, I can understand how any sort of positive attention from him is like candy to you right now. But it's not candy -- it's just crumbs. Is that what you want?

If you go out with him, you will only be showing your WH that yes, he CAN go out and get a girlfriend and have sex with her whenever he wants, but even though Carol knows about it she will STILL welcome him home and go out with him to enjoy a lovely anniversary celebration!

"Whew! Thanks, hon! I thought you'd be really hurt and angry that I have a girlfriend, but I'm soooo relieved to see that you'll put up with it and still be my wife when I feel like having one! This is absolutely great! Thanks again!"

Is this what YOU want?
Is this what your children want?

If you want to prolong and enable his affair, then go ahead and "date" him.

If you want to protect yourself and your children from his cruelty and emotional abuse, go to Plan B.

"When the WS is trying to choose between the lover and the spouse, it's time to go to Plan B." -- Harley

Mulan

So if Carol goes to plan B does this mean no more MC as well? I know that a lot of MC's won't counsel if the A is still going on. I am not sure what has been discussed about that with HC in her sessions. I still look at "dating" as a form of MC. It is a time to talk and look at each others EN's. Should she condone the A and the OW? Absolutely not, should she let him be a cake eater...no. But given the chance shouldn't she be able to show him there is something better to come home to? Carol, who made the plans for the Anniversary date?

Thanks guys, I actually do like having all of your opinions. I'm a little black and blue but it's okay. I'm feeling wise, cautious but not particularly degraded or vulnerable.

First of all, the good things about Christmas were that the kids saw their dad and his parents saw first hand the way he is. Not that they doubted me, but they were able to see how slippery he's become and how little his concern is for what he's done. He left soon after he's parents did. Where did he go? Who knows? It was pretty early.

Yes, we went on our anniversary date last night. It was nice. No Lbs. We had a good dinner and walked around our local downtown area that was decked out with Christmas lights. Conversation stayed on the kids and other shallow subjects. It was pleasant and friendly. I was able to find out that in the 10 days since I last sat in his car, he'd put nearly 900 miles on the odometer. I really don't think he went Christmas shopping in the next state.

Christmas is an odd time. I'm cutting a little slack now. I will be interested to see what personality he brings to our consulting session tomorrow.

HC-- I'm wonderig about some of the advice you're getting. Just because you're not living together doesn't mean Plan A is out of the question. It's only a couple of months since Dday, and I don't think that's too long to carry on with the effort to get him to recognize what he'd be giving up if he left his family for OW.

To me it's huge that he's participating in MC and showing honest self evaluation and change. If I had gotten that much from WH I would have been thrilled!

Keep it up, but give yourself a deadline for commencing Plan B if he doesn't voluntarily end the A. I think you're doing fine... DT

Well DT, I'm taking all the advice I can get and pondering it. All the holiday activities really cloud things. My oldest son, one of my biggest supporters, says that he's glad we had a happy Christmas. That's worth a lot. WH is talking to the kids more and that's positive. I'm prepared for a false recovery. I'm acting nice, looking good, cooking wonderful things, participating in activities. I suppose that's a Plan A thing.

I'm glad going to MC is something WH wants to do. He must get something from it. Honesty and truthfulness are very big problems right now. Our counselor gently but positively pins him down. Her advice to talk over our holiday plans as a family was good. I think WH feels comfortable with her. I'm hoping that our session will be a good place to work through the OW issue. Our problems go beyond OW but we need to start there. We'll see...