Well, my WW asks me if I will ever forgive her for all the pain she has caused me. She said she is sorry for what she has done, and that she never thought in a million years that she would have done what she is doing. She says that she has a lot of reservations about a reconciliation because she just doubts that we both won't be able to change those things in ourselves that the other wishes to have changed.

I had to agree with her on that. Times, they are confusin'

MIF
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I understand that one!

My WW says the same things, we both won't be able to change enough for each other. I stoped telling her I would change, I told her I don't want her to change, I just want a chance to grow together.

My WW has great morals (most of the time) she is smart, funny great looking, I love thoes things about her. I just want to grow with her, not change her.

All the best as ya, times are confusin'

MIF?,

So go to MC to get help ...

Your plan A is working ... give it time.

-rh-

We were supposed to go to MC this morning. She decided not to go. I went and the MC made it an IC session. My WW did go to her IC session later on though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong>She said she is sorry for what she has done, and that she never thought in a million years that she would have done what she is doing. She says that she has a lot of reservations about a reconciliation because she just doubts that we both won't be able to change those things in ourselves that the other wishes to have changed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your answer: You doubted in a million years that you could have done this so don't trust your doubts again that it can't be undone.

WAT

wat that is a good reply.
but mif im happy that your plan a is making some progress, it makes me think that there is hope for me, but keep your gaurd up. you never know what they are going to do next...

Yea,

Who knows. I went from acceptance. Acceptance of my pending D to now wondering if I am doing the right thing.

There are a few issues, that I don't know if I can't get past and if not, then this M isn't going to work out.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hello,

I think you already have your answer. She is still in contact with the OM and blows off the counseling sessions. Words are cheap. Judge a person by their actions and not by their words.
If she was really serious she would have cut off all contact with the OM immediately and seriously would be engaging in counseling. Her actions indicate otherwise. Clearly there is no remorse if she is still in contact with the OM. I think you are doing the right things. How can you recover if she blows off counseling and is still with the OM? Don't waste your time if this is her attitude.

Bryan,

That does make sense. Thanks. I needed that. For the past 8 days I felt like I was doing the right thing. I had accepted the fact that my M was over. Last night and today I started wavering and wondering if I was doing the right thing. You are right. Her actions show she does not want this M. I didn't see the forest for the trees there.

MIF

I agree with redhat. When the fog lifts and they see claerly what the reality is and express remorse, you need to be there with every bit of forgiveness you can muster. It sounds to me like the fog lifted there for awhile. I know it's only words and actions are what counts...

And one thing I think that we forget sometimes is that WW feel the pain of all of this also; maybe not so much as the BH now but you can take comfort in that their true pain is coming later if they don't manage to get it together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bryanp:
<strong>How can you recover if she blows off counseling and is still with the OM? Don't waste your time if this is her attitude. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bryan, Bryan, Bryan - you see things so black and white.

OF COURSE she doesn't show ALL the right signs right now and OF COURSE her attitude is bad. This is ALWAYS the case. With your approach NO CASE COULD BE RECOVERED!!!

MIF, Bryan is telling you what you want to hear.

This is not about being right or wrong - that part is settled > you are right and she is wrong. This is about whether you want to give your marriage more than a sophomoric try.

WAT

WAT,
You are right. Bryan is telling me what I want to hear. I want to be over this pain. The quickest way I see that happening is if we move on and get a D. I too have realized I am a black and white kind of guy so it's easier for me to accept a black and white anser.

My WW just got to her parents and called to let me know she was home and I told her I missed her and loved her. I feel like a dolt. What kind of idiot am I? Why did I say that? It's true, I do miss her, but why did I tell her. I shouldn't have. I mean, I miss and love this woman who is, as far as I can tell, in love with an OM.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
MIF

Why not tell her that?

It's true, right?

Just don't sound needy and desperate when you tell her.

WAT

Isn't there something about the whole "hard to get" attitude? Women do that all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MIF = <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yes, it has it's time and place.

When you detect a real, sustained move towards you from her, you should back off a little to see if she follows the bait. This is not manipulation, just relationship research.

This is an art and only you can make these calls.

Just be honest, confident, and loving.

WAT

MIF, I am about as black and white as you can get.

My WW has told me that from day one, and that is something I love about her. She has tried so many times to open my eyes to a world full of color I have never seen before. She has shown me new things I would have missed along the way.

I am sticking with my plan A as best as I can, yet with her fog and her flip floping back and forth on what she wants/needs, now is more the time than ever to open my eyes and take a look through hers as foggy as they may be. I know I love my WW....I will try till I die and not expect the world from her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MIF,

I have not followed your whole history, forgive me. Have you exposed to all you can?

CONTACT MUST STOP!

She can be as remorseful as possible, but if there is still contact, can the remorse be real? I think it's her guilt coming out as remorse.

Any pro marriage MC worth their salt would make NC the number one thing to be done before any kind of MC could be considered.

If she is eaten up with guilt and shame (which is a good thing!) then she should talk to therapist individually.

BUT SHE STILL MUST END CONTACT!

Then you get to enjoy the withdrawal and backslides and all sorts of new drama.

That's why they call it a rollercoaster.

Plus it has only been three months. In the whole scheme of things (reconciliation and recovery) 3 months is a very short time. You have come a long, positive way in 3 months.

Stay strong and take care of yourself. Jog, work-out, grow a pony tail!! (or not)

k

MIF?,

Just picture this ... her fog is lifted a bit this morning and tried to find a strong wall to lean on, something to hold on and something to hope and beleive ... what she find was ... you sounds like giving up too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . I would discourage to go to MC .. what for ?.

This is why one of you have to have faith that M could be restored ... given the fog, contact and withdrawal are passed.

Hang in there and vent in here
-rh-

MIF:

This sounds like a good sign that her "fog" is lightneing up somewhat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think if you try hard here and do more Plan A and what not you can still save this marriage. It seems like many here think you can do this, so what do you think?

lemonman,

Not sure what I think at this time. I went 8 days feeling that I was done for good. No looking back. Sunday night and Monday morning we talked, had SF and now I am right back into thinking we can do this, maybe I want to do this. WTF? There are other issues, however, besides the A that I have to really think about wanting to get back involved with. I don't think I want to deal with all of that at this point, but I am waffling a bit on my convictions (John Kerry)

MIF