GBH,

Again I agree that it's a maturity thing. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I don't really agree that it has everything to do with age. Then you could lump me into that same category. During my life and work experiences I remember instances where my opinions or ideas didn't carry much weight because I was a "young buck". I guess I just resent that stereotype.

Also I hate to give my WW an out by saying that she never got it out of her system. She made a choice, I continue to make the choice not too.

I see it as a maturity issue, yes, that's why I put it in my 1st post, but age should not be held against or for someone when it comes to maturity...

My 2 cnts, Native

Native,
I have to jump in here and say that I agree with both you and GBH. I married when I was relatively young (23) and I look back on it now and realize that that was WAY too young *for me*. (This is where I agree with you). I'm sure that there are 19 year olds and 23 year olds who possess a certain maturity and confidence, and their marriages work out wonderfully. I thought I was one of them. I went from my safe, secure home, into a marriage, and played house for 20 years. I loved it for the first 17 years or so. I perfected it. By then, when I reached about 40 years old, I wanted a little more for myself. Wanted to spread my wings a bit. That's when the A happened.

I'm saying that in retrospect, had I lived a fuller life on my own before getting married, I probably wouldn't have the need for spreading my wings at age 40. It's only a guess though.

CC

Hello CC,

Yup I think GBH are both agreeing in a way. All we really know is what kind of person we are. What we can and can't do. I'd like to think that I'm mature enough to handle what life throws at me. I will admit that I did a lot of growing up in my 4 years of the Marines.

Isn't "Life" really what we make of it? Why can't we spread our wings and still be married? If we need excitement, like my WW seems to need then why not take up a hobby. If she needs the "single life" which is garbage, then why can't she do it with me? I don't know role play or something... didn't I read that women like that stuff. You have to be creative in M's. M's are love and romance 24/7/365 they take work.

Sheesh grow up already my WW!!!

native,
I did spread my wings all I could, within my marriage. I did have hobbies, friends, etc., but I felt confined within the marriage and within my role as a wife and a mother. I just wanted something special just for me, as selfish as that sounds. I wasn't looking for the A, but when I found someone special who took such an active interest in me and in my life, I flourished and it became an EA and then a PA.

CC

My Husband started acting strangely around the time he was "helping" a female friend that worked 2 stores down from his work. He helped her "boyfriend" (I have my doubts there was one) move a stove and a washer and dryer into her new house she bought (Her BF already had a house...and no they didn't move in together), then he "helped" her move into her new house (14 hours....no phone call, wouldn't answer his cell for me), but they were just friends.....caught him at her house the 1st time, he was just checking out the fence she was having built, because she thought the contractor was scamming her....that is damn neighborly of him isn't it? The 2nd time I caught him at her house he was actually IN her house, I parked on a street where I could see him come out, and he ended up pulling up beside me and asking ME what I was doing.....I said "WTF are YOU doing?" Again...I got the "There's nothing going on...we're just friends, I was just picking up her mail because she was out of town" I was completely livid, and he said "CAREN, I just got the mail, put it inside her house, then I was leaving".....wait a second, back up, you put her mail INSIDE her house?? Do we have and F-in house key now????? No no no, I am misunderstanding this completely innocent relationship.

We end up separated...I moved out in September of this year, he doesn't want me to come in to his work to see him.....hmmmmmmmm, could that be because his "FRIEND" would see I was there? Then he buys a pre-paid cellphone in November...One of those Virgin Mobile Phones, so I decide, well now, I know all of his personal info, and he has no computer, I think I'll just get into that account and see who he's been calling and vice versa.....Oh, guess what??!! They're having quite a few friendly conversations....just on his cell, not including how the hell many he is having with her on his home phone, confront him with this information "Caren, you are blowing this out of proportion, you are going to feel like an a$$ when you finally realize that we have always just been friends"

He is such a friendly guy....lemme tell ya what. He NEVER talked to any of his male friends on the phone, never helped any of them move...etc, etc. Bull$hit they're just friends....but that's okay, in lieu of being able to afford a P.I. a friend of mine (oddly enough it's a male friend) is going to tail him for me because whenever he goes anywhere now, someone picks him up....this is so I won't see his car wherever the hell he is, and cause a scene. So he's gonna see who picks him up, and where they go. I'm also going to put a recording device on his phone line, and see just how "friendly" their conversations get.

Oh did I forget to mention that since I confronted him about the phone calls, he stopped calling her house and her cell from his cell phone, and she stopped calling his cell phone too....wow, for a platonic relationship, something sure as hell smells fishy!!!!

-Caren <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

jeffrey,
I got the "just friends" line as well or rather we're "special friends".

Believe me by then the alarm bells were sounding.

Mac

jeffrey
ill jump on the just friends bandwagon too.
i still hear it, even after recording her having phone sex with him. they were just friends.

i never talk to my friends like that!!!!

Jeffrey,

I'm sorry about the way that things turned out.

I have another variation of the phrase to add to the list: "I thought he was safe."

My wife's A started when she began talking to her best friend's H about problems in our marriage. (The best friend was out of hte country for an extended period of time this summer.)

My wife said that she talked to him because she thought he was safe. In other words, he was her best friend's H, so...nothing could possibly happen. Never mind the fact that she KNEW the guy had cheated on his wife before and that he NEVER wore a wedding ring.

As it turned out, he was decidedly unsafe: he found her vulnerabilities and took advantage of them.

Well to put things into perspective. I met her when she was 20. She finished college at 22 & we got M. She started this 'single' life at around 25 or so. I guess she is in full swing of having fun now. I am 6 years older than her. No kids...thank goodness.

The illusion of safety is part of the rationalization process.

I think it probably applies in all cases, not only in friendship gone affair situations.

Not TOO many people in the world are willing to instantly and openly embrace obviously evil behavior. It is a war of inches..and unfortunately most BS allow the ground to be taken until they are all in a very bad position.

Put an end to it NOW rather than wait..it will only get worse from here. "If that person is your *friend* and they are shown so much consideration..I am your *spouse* and I am pulling rank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ."

The reaction to this sentiment will be very telling.

Noodle

Jeffrey,

I'm sorry about the way that things turned out mate.

I still get angry over this particular issue above others because my wifes work actually employed cousellors to help staff deal with difficult issues in child protection, but she STILL turned to a 'peer friend' the Ars*hole.

As a matter of interest, has she - your ex - EVER expressed remorse since or is she still 'living' the single life with little care about what she has done??

I wonder because a mate of mine had his wife do a similar thing then around 2 years down the track - now - is grovelling and begging for him to take her back. Nothing to do with $$ they both are independant etc.
He wont have a bar of her right now, dating a few women himself while shes become obsessive in trying to 'win' him back. frankly its pretty sad to someone who was friends with both of them.

(Oh and of course my wife always said 'I would never cheat like she has" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

Sorry bout your situation. It seems an all too common thing.

She wanted the separation in Jan...weekend of MLK hoilday....Saturday Jan 17...I'll never forget. That holiday weekend she told me what she wanted...then that monday (MLK day) I found out she went to one of her 'friends or class mates' house to eat with his family & ride 4-wheelers. He lived 30 miles away from what she told me. I had called her cell phone that day to talk to her...no answer....later that night she calls me back telling me where she is. I was concerned why she would go to this guys parents house to spend time with them. She tells me that he had recently broken up with his gf, so they both know the feelings they are going thru. But I wondered, why go & do fun things...ride 4-wheelers...."well they wanted to cheer me up". My first inclination was for her to visit her family or a girlfriend....not this guy & his famliy whom she had never met before.
Any way, I tried to get her to reconsider her descision. For the next two weeks I took her camping, horseback riding, sent her stuff to her workplace, etc. We had a joint emergency session with our MC...it was there she proceeded to tell me & the C that I was emotionally abusive. After the session she wanted to be separated. BUT not before she gave me the tax forms to figure out for us...she thought we might get a refund. How nice....
Well I think I saw her off & on until mid February. On valentines day I went to see her...she was surprised. She was dressed to go out. She wouldnt tell me where at first. Finaly she told me...she was going to this same guys house..for his sisters B-day party. Wow...on Valentines night...she goes to a party. The following monday she emails me...telling me she got really drunk & passed out. A few days later she came by my place one time after a job interview she went to...that was the last time I saw her. I think she knew it would be. We talked on the phone a few times up until mid March. All during this time we communicated via email...usually me initiating it. Then mid March I didnt hear frm her for about 2 weeks....nothing.
Finally at the end of March she emails me asking how the tax forms were coming along. I got mad & filed on her 2 days before they were due. I figured the tax forms separately & she owed some money. I also left her little notes she wrote in her class with her co-workers. I wanted them to read what she wrote...who knows what she had been telling them about me.
All during this time, from February on, she kept explaining it was her that was changing. That it wasnt me. She didnt know what she wanted out of life. She felt as though she had missed out on things in life. SHe was sorry for what it was doing to me. I guess thats why she never really wanted to see me face to face. So I dont know if that shows any kind of remorse or not.
After I filed...she wrote me a letter...she was livid & mad with me for giving her co-workers a copy of her notes. I thought if it was just a joke then why not let everyone see them. I guess it wasnt a joke after all....she knew how it looked. In retrospect I shouldnt have gave them those notes. At that point I didnt want her back.....I should have let her file on me. I think that in the long run would have eaten up with guilt. But I pulled the trigger...she was too cowardly to do it.

To put things in perspective. She took a night class for her job. This was say 3 years after graduating from college. She was 26 when she took this night class. She is now 28. As far as I know she is living life the way she wants to. I have not heard anything from her. She has so much pride that I dont think I ever will. People though have told me that one day...maybe a years down the road....she will contact me. I dont know how I will react to her then. Right now I almost wished she would disappear off the face of the earth.

jeffry

hope this didn't bring back too many bad memories for you & thank you for sharing the past, reckon she will turn up like a bad penny in a year or so - hopefully you will be well & truly in a new life by then.

My friend by the way says the best revenge he ever had was her finding him happy though I know its not supposed to be about that but hes only human too ya know.
......its all a crock this sort of thing...... Wife & I are working on us and I suppose the number of years and kids has been a motive for both of us, without it I think would have been gone.

My old man once told me the secret to a long M was that you dont both fall out of love at the same time enough to leave the other. maybe so.