Today will be our 3rd MC session. At each session, WH has been a different person. I'm wondering who I can expect today.

At our first session, he was Mr. I-love-my-work-to-the-max. Talked about how much he loved his work, how much he got back from it. How OW understood his work and how he could talk with her. Said he was considering getting an apartment so he could focus more on his work. Said we didn't have a vacation last summer because we'd had enough vacations and it interfered with his work. He left the session with a plan to wean himself from OW and spend more time, do more activities and talk more each day with me.

Ten minutes later in the car, everything was different. He had already been looking at apartments. He refused to break contact with OW. Spoke about how he loved his kids but not me. I went from cautious hopefulness to blinding tears at the speed of light.

Fast forward one week to session #2. He was a bit more subdued at this one. He'd been alone in his apartment for a few days. The story on that day was how vacations were the best times we spent together. It was "almost over" with OW because she complained too much. (Yes, and pigs can fly!) He refused to be accountable for his location/actions/time because it invaded his privacy. Said I should trust his word. He was desperate to wiggle his way into our Christmas.

On to session #3. WH is ready and willing to go to MC. We've done Christmas, our anniversary and a dinner at his folks last night with his brother visiting from another state. No anger but not a lot of communication either. From each event, he left alone. We haven't talk about OW and NC. That's on my agenda for today.

Since all cheaters seem to follow the same pattern, who do think will show up today? What will WH's personality be? Any ideas? I'm sure he'll try to be as slippery as ever.

You can't apply logic to a WS in the fog. There's a simple answer to this question. As long as he is involved in the A, he will be a liar and deceptive. This is all a game with him, aimed at allowing him to keep a hold onto you while he continues in his A.

I would ask the therapist to assist you two in coming up with a PLAN for him to stop the A or else I would no longer go to counseling with him. That would be my only goal for the session.

What's the use on working on your marriage if he is not being a husband.

HC Don't focus too much on who will be. We all spend too much energy on trying to figure that out. Someone just posted on another thread a Dr Philism "You can't make sense of nonsense" something like that. Just stick to your plan of addressing NC and moving forward with recovering the marriage. Don't force feed it though. I have found when I do that my WH withdraws big time. Ask him..."Do you think you are at a place where you can end your contact with OW?" If he says no then I think it is fair that you state your boundary. "I love you and I want this to work out, but I will not continue seeing you as your wife while there is still a third party involved. You can see the kids and make arrangements with them directly. Take all that you need from the house, and if you need something you must contact me before stopping by. No entering the house without my knowledge, just as you would not want me showing up at your apt unannounced". Ask him "Can we agree to this?"

My WH is finally understanding that the OW is not the answer to the problems, and I am finally understanding that I need to focus on what got us to where we are and not the OW. I hope that the two of you are headed in that direction as well.

Who will WH be at marriage counseling?

He will continue to be WH, not H. And why shouldn't he be? He is learning that going to MC is a small price to pay to continue having both a wife and a girlfriend. He is learning that all he has to do is nod his head and say a few things that he thinks you want to hear, and when MC is over he can kiss you goodbye and go straight back to his OW without fear that you will make a fuss about it.

I fully understand that you want to do what you can to save your marriage -- but we are trying to tell you that you are not saving it. You are only enabling your husband's affair and teaching him that you can tolerate his cheating and you'll be okay with it.

Yes, I know you've told him in *words* that you're not okay with it -- but your *actions* scream differently. What is it we say about not listening to WS's words, but only watching their actions? It works the same way for BS. As long as your actions do not match your words -- as long as you continue to tolerate this as nicely as you can -- you can be 100% sure that he will NEVER stop.

Many, many BS see the A as a contest between themselves and the OP -- but in my opinion, this is a fatal mistake. 99% of WS are NOT trying to choose between the two. They want BOTH, and they will continue to pig out on BOTH for as long as the BS allows them to.

I hope you see this. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your poor confused struggling WH is trying to choose between you and his girlfriend. He might say that to each of you, because that will string you along, but believe me -- he is not trying to choose. He has exactly what he wants and Carol, you are handing it to him on a silver platter.

That's going to be one relieved and happy guy that shows up at MC, I gar-on-tee.

I know this is harsh, but you are only setting yourself up for greater pain and torment that is going to drag on for a very long time. I hope you will at least think about this.

Good luck.
Mulan

I wholeheartedly agree with MULAN.

MULAN is saying what I have been trying to say.

That was my experience with my FWH. I made the big mistake of enabling his A for months!

He was having fun with her and trying to keep me waiting on the sidelines. He lied and lied to keep this routine going for as long as possible.

HE DID NOT STOP UNTIL HE THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO REALLY LOSE ME!!!!

Hi, HC.....

I totally agree with Mulan.

Don't worry about "who" shows up at the MC session.

You show up as your strong self. Go with a plan. Plan for ending the A, or Plan B for you. The MC is there to assist you with this.

Don't let this go on. Your WH is cake eating, and you are letting him. I know this, because I did it over and over. My WH was a happy little camper for a while.

Now, I have had enough. He knows (because I told him) that I have no problem getting a D. The good thing about this is that I found myself, and I AM STRONG. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Be strong. Find your inner strength, and use it.

You CAN do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K

Mulan, what you say makes A LOT of sense. I will take these thoughts with me to MC today. No wonder he's eager to go to the session. He gets permission to be around for the holidays and isn't called into accountability. I know you've been telling me this all the time.

I promise I'll be better into the new year. I'm coming out of the emotionalness of the holidays. Also, I've had whooping cough for the past 3 weeks. Not good to make life decisions when you're sick as a dog. I've been coughing so hard that I pulled my back. Ouch!

Thank you. I have been listening.

Hi Carol ~

Hmmm...I've been around on these boards for 4 years. Boy has the tone changed...

I do NOT agree with the advice you have been given by others in this thread and in some of your others.

I'm confused. I thought these boards were about supporting those of us who are working Marriage Builder's principles.

Are you practicing Plan A or Plan B?

Much of the advice you have been given is NEITHER plan.

Newsflash: A good Plan A does enable the affair.

Thats the WHY plan A is supposed to be short and sweet.

Plan A means doing your best to meet your husband's emotional needs. And it means that your WS will get to cake eat (and they always do) - for awhile.

Is it fair? No.

Do you want to be right or married? You don't get to be both.

Plan A means you take a really good hard look at YOU, and figure out where you failed in your part of the marital relationship, and demonstrate by actions that you are willing to fix those things.

If you are in Plan A, then guess what? You should be going to counseling if he is willing, and listening to him. Yes there's lots of fog, but geez, you should be able to use these sessions figure out what his emotional needs are so that you can do a fantastic Plan A.

You should be going on anniversary dinners, family occaisions, holidays, etc, if he wants to do so. It gives you a chance to meet his emotional needs and show your husband that YOU can change.

Do you know how many MBers who have posted here over the years that would have done anything to have the amount of involvement from their WSes that you have from yours? Plan A requires contact with the WS, and you have SO MUCH opportunity here.

And believe me, his doing these things without you also drives a wedge between him and his OW. Everytime he lies to her, or spends time away from her because he is with you - you think it makes their relationship stronger?

6 weeks of Plan A is what is recommended. NO more, exactly because of the enabling. If he is willing to do counseling, why not call the Harleys?

When you have successfully done your plan A, then its time to pull the plug and go to Plan B.

Plan B will bring reality and consequences to your WS. To get out of Plan B, the WS must offer that accountabililty that you want to you - you shouldn't be demanding it. (Selfish demands)

It all takes time. Hang in there.

BrambleRose, thank you for your reply. I'm trying to do what feels right. The Plans don't always make a lot of sense to me. With everything that's been going on, my concentration hasn't been the best plus both WH and I continue to have a nasty, lingering respiratory illness. It's become quite apparent that one shouldn't make life decisions when they are sick.

I'm trying to be pleasant, make nice dinners, be a good companion. Are we Plan A? Maybe. I think it's positive that he wants to be with us. Like you say, it is a wedge between him and OW. He seems eager to go to our MC sessions. He could have easily walked out yesterday but he calmed down and stuck with it. We even talked later. He asked me out for our anniversary and planned it. Is he eating cake? Probably but I can't prove it. What is he getting from me? I'm not sure. Am I habit or do I fulfill an EN?

Importantly, at this point, I do not feel degraded or disrespected. When I do, I'll let you know. Yes, I'm angry about OW and the continued contact. Yes, I think it's an addiction. Yes, I'm mad that WH lies to me or shades the truth or qualifies his statements. I'd bet that OW is just as frustrated with him as I am. I feel slimey when I search for signs for the A.

The truth is that the A with OW is making us look at all the issues that have plagued our marriage for some time. There, I've said it. She is a symptom but not the entire problem. We can't really work on things until NC but we can start. We need to address the sex problems, WH lack of involvement and commitment to the family, WH's boundaries between work and home, both of our preceived truthfulness and more. We have a lot of old hatchets to bury. No matter what happens, we have a long common history and 3 fabulous children we share. If this relationship ends, it's not going to end in a angry, burnt-bridges way. We're going to sort through these issues because, as we all know, they will probably be the same ones that will come up in any other relationship we have.

Are there plus things? Bring out your 2x4's but there are. We both agreed that our financial arrangements would stay the same. As a SAHM, this is important. It gives me time to think about where I want to go career-wise even if we stay together. No SF but that hasn't happened for a while. WH gets to stew in his own apartment. OW is a long drive away. Less laundry, less complaints. WH doesn't live here but spends more quality time here than he did when his body was here. WH is actually talking to us more than before. If nothing else, he and I have our hour each week where we DO talk.

That's why I'm not going to Plan B for a while. I'm setting a limit of mid-February. Until then, there are family/sporting events that throw us together. WH has to work through the OW thing and I think he needs a little time to do it. Maybe SH can help us. I'm certainly going to look into it.

My plan doesn't fit all the advice I've been given. It's early days, I'm will to give a little. I'm not letting this go for months and months. In my life, I've spent a lot of time working on consensus building. I've used this in organizations, my kids, family trips, my Girl Scout troop. It's time to turn that focus on my marriage. I'd prefer hashing things out, discussion and compromise (except on OW, of course) to WAR.