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<small>[ January 25, 2005, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: *blondblossom* ]</small>

bb, thanks for your post to me. I'm glad I scrolled down far enough to see it.

I think if I get over this I will be like you. It's going to take me a long time. In certain ways I think our recovery has gone amazingly well. Considering that my H thought he was in the perfect R when d-day hit, and still in the height of passion(yuck!), it still surprises me he dumped the "B" pretty much cold turkey. Especially after witnessing the horrible withdrawal he went through. Every month we seemed to be getting closer in certain areas.

I don't know! Maybe it's the holidays reminding me of where I was at this time last year. Didn't know about the A, but had come to the conclusion I couldn't be Med anymore to this man who had emotionally Ded me and wouldn't talk to me. Maybe it's that 1/8/05 will be the anniversary of the beginning of the truthtelling. I do know that after almost a year I still am having a very difficult time accepting that my H did what he did, and treated me the way he did.

I started a thread over in Recovery last week called something like "31 hrs. in the life of a FBS." If you know my story you know H had a business partner, not financial but in every other way. We all were friends for over 20 yrs. and he worked for H for about 16 yrs. This friend believes oW was gunning for his job. H was like a brother to him, and he considered OW his friend. He suspected the A and asked them both several times and they both lied to him. H treated him like SH** in a very similar way he treated me. The work environment was literally making this friend sick. This time last year he quit. Shortly thereafter the truth came out.

About a month ago H reached out to this friend via letter, because he moved, and asked if they could meet because H would be in Fla. soon. Friend told him no. This is the question I asked in my thread. I understand why this friend doesn't want to be friends with H anymore. I realize that if a friend treated me that way I'd probably walk away too. The thing is I did have a friend treat me that way, but even worse. He betrayed our M vows, our friendship, and the sexual betrayal is huge for me. So if I'd walk away from a friend who betrayed me, why would I stay with my H? Does it just come down to the fact that I know our boys are better off with us together? After all this time the A seems to have grown in my mind again.

I have always had very black and white thinking about As. I've experienced alot of As around me, and always hated them. I admire my FWS buddies here who have returned to their Ms and are working so hard. But the reality is I don't admire my H, or respect him. We found out he loves being admired, so that is a problem. And respect for the person I'm with is pretty big for me. Bottom line, I'm not sure how anyone gets over this betrayal. I know they do, but will I be able to be one of them?

Sorry this is so long. It's my late night babble post. I don't expect you to have the answers. I guess I just needed to vent. Thanks for your support. It is appreciated! CV

CV.....

After reading your post, it seems our situations are very similar.

Just this morning WH was talking about how he has no friends anymore. That they turned their backs on him. Weren't "there" for him.

He still can't see how his treatment of them during his A caused them to be this way toward him.

We had a long talk on the phone this morning. The best thing that came out of it was that WH said he had gotten the name of a good IC, and that he is going to go see him.

As for how long this takes to get over.....of course we all know that it's different for everyone. And I am just at the beginning of that process myself. Hanging on by my toenails.

But, I'm tough enough to do it (I have strong toenails, too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

And I think it's great to have someone around like bb who has successfully navigated these waters.....it gives us all hope.

Hang in there. You have my support! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

K

CV,

Hello.

You stay with your husband because you still love him. I know you hate what he did and that may eventually cause you to lose what love you still have for him. But right now, you still care for your husband. I think you are mourning the loss of innocence that your marriage had pre-affair. The fact that the affair took place at the funeral home that you two own, and that your father was shown there . . . that certainly makes this so much harder for you to deal with.

From corresponding with you I know that you are not staying out of fear of being alone. You are not a shrinking violet and I think you know that you could just walk away from your marriage. Your kids are almost grown so you really aren't staying for them. You could leave and live a comfortable life. Hell, you could even find a new love and start from scratch. But you do know that all humans are flawed. We all have done things that we are not particularly proud of. You may end up trading a flawed, remorseful spouse for an equally flawed boyfriend. One never knows.

I think that you hate the sin but you still love the sinner, and you are going to stay as long as you still feel that way. The fact that you are even considering staying, knowing that you have the option of leaving, says a good deal about your character and what your marriage vows really mean to you.


Take care.

CN

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But the reality is I don't admire my H, or respect him. We found out he loves being admired, so that is a problem. And respect for the person I'm with is pretty big for me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CV - could it be that you actually don't admire or respect HIS ACTIONS? Not his "person."

Or will you ever give him the chance to earn back your respect & admiration. REALLY look at how he is now, how much he has done to help heal your M. Does he not deserve respect for that? Don't you admire him for staying?

I think you stay bc you truly love him. And I think you WILL eventually work through all this and have a better M as a result!

Hugs, Frags

K, thanks for the support! You obviously have mine too.

CN, I swear I was thinking about you either last night or this morning. Thought about putting another call out to you, just to check in, but didn't want to be obnoxious. Anyhow, you know I always appreciate anything you have to say to me. Truthfully, does it seem like I've changed much from when I posted almost a year ago? I might not feel as devestated, but I seem to be having trouble with the same darn things.

CN, I'm not sure I'll ever stop mourning the "loss of innocence" of our M. We are at a place in our lives where we could be having a good time. I'm not saying I'm happy our dads' died, but it sure relieved a lot of pressure and responsibility from our lives. But now we have to deal with this crap.

I guess you could say I'm not a "shrinking violet." I'm the exact opposite of OW. Not that I don't get scared, not that I wasn't devastated, not that I don't still feel terrible about H's A. However, throughout this ordeal I never cried and begged for him to stay with me. Something OW did whenever he tried breaking it off. I have needs, she was needy. Still don't understand how needy and clingy is attractive. Maybe you can explain that one to me.

Concerning your points about why I stay. The thought of being alone doesn't thrill me, but yes, I could do it. It would definitely suck for quite a while. Actually 2 shrinks told us the teenage years are a terrible time for parents to get Ded. Developmentally teens are pulling away from their parents, but also want to feel safe in the process. These Cs said that for the parents to pull away first is devestating. Plus it will still alter their lives, even as adults. If we had been a couple constantly fighting, and the house was very stressful, it would be different. It's not like that. In spite of everything the boys have a stable, peaceful home. Their world would be rocked without a doubt.

And meeting someone else? Yeh, it could happen. But I'm gonna hit the big 5-0 next year, and I'm sure the pickins get slimmer the older you get. I think I'm quite a catch, but lets face it, why are so many men having As with women 20 yrs. younger than them?

In saying all of the above, it still wouldn't be enough for me to stay if we can't reclaim a M where we are friends and lovers. I'm becoming very clear on what my ENs are, and H really hasn't been meeting my top ones for months. I haven't had it in me to be the lighthouse anymore for several months now. H and I had a good day. We went out to dinner, and then talked about us. Turned into a frustrating conversation. Bottom line, in my words to H, if he is really glad he is with me, if I am the one he loves, then why don't I feel it? Being replaced by the OW isn't exactly a self-esteem booster, even for people like me with decent self-esteem. At some point shouldn't the FWS do whatever it takes to make sure and fill our LB$, to make sure we know we are loved by the FWS? OK, he obviously doesn't know my love language. But is it that, or is it that this A just screwed us up beyond repair? He gave to OW in ways that I need, so I'm making the assumption that it just ain't there anymore. Tonight I even felt like our history has still been rewritten. I don't even know what we were anymore. Maybe we sucked!

Our vows did mean a lot to me, which is why this has hurt so badly. I'm not good with betrayal! Several months ago, out of the blue, I just slipped my wedding ring off my finger. I haven't been able to put it back on. I know many BS here believe that their M vows must still be held up, in spite of the A. For me, H's A made our vows null and void. At least that's how I feel now. I'm not sure what it will take for me to put that ring back on.

Thanks CN for popping up again. I feel like I am part of your penance. Having to deal with an especially tough, unforgiving BS. Thanks for sticking with me friend!

Frags, I guess at the moment I am having difficulty separating the man from his actions. That's one of my problems. A big part of me still really doesn't get how a person who supposedly loves you can treat you so badly. If I could only find a good explanation for that one, but CN knows that I have been trying, through picking my FWS MB friends' brains all these months. Still don't get it.

Yes, H has done a lot. What I wrote to CN explains what he hasn't done a very good job at. Helping me feel loved in a way where I really feel loved. Back to maybe too much damage was done.

Well on that very negative note I guess I'll stop writing. Thanks all! CV

CV, feel free to call me out anytime. If there is anything that I can do to help you through this I will. Maybe it is a form of penance for me . . . You have changed a lot since you first started posting. You are a lot stronger, and you're more pissed then you used to be, you are still hurt, but your also angry . . . Good. You are about to make some changes in your marriage, your going to be clear and concise and tell you husband what your needs really are and tell him if he expects to have you as a wife he better get busy. This is long CV . . . and I’m going to repeat the same basic theme . . . you are going to tell your husband exactly what your needs are. Repeat until you agree to do it.

You said that you and hubby are at a point where you should be having a good time . . . why aren’t you? Do you guys do things with just the two of you? Are you still uncomfortable spending time alone with him? Before the wife and I had kids we would often go to the symphony, the ballet, the local playhouse (some pretty bad stuff there) but it was an event . . . a time to put on some nice clothes and just enjoy the evening. Do you do these types of things? Do you spend the 15 hours of alone time? We don’t, but we are trying.

Why do some men find needy and clingy attractive? I think it is the damsel in distress syndrome. It is very empowering to feel that someone really needs your help. It seems to me that you are pretty self-sufficient. Maybe husband felt that he was unimportant because you could handle things (kids, house, your work, etc.) without his help. Many, many men have this “need” to feel that their significant others value their help, and need that help. I suffered from the damsel syndrome myself . . . Sometimes I think that feminism did women a huge disservice by making sure that men know that women don’t really need their help. If I don’t feel useful, needed, wanted, what is the point of having a relationship? Even if my wife doesn’t really need my help, I want to maintain the illusion that she does . . . I guess it strokes my ego to know that someone relies on me. My wife is very independent too . . . so this has been an issue for us.


Being alone after a long marriage should be scary. I’m sure you have some apprehension about that. You just don’t seem the type that would let fear drive them from their conviction. If you thought that leaving was the right thing to do, I think that you would just do it, fear or no fear.

You’re probably right about teenagers and divorce. I guess my point was that you don’t have infants at home; you have adolescent boys that will soon be off to college. Yes they need you both, but not in the same what as a 2 year old.


I figured that the 55 in your name was your birth year. I’m a 66 myself. If you are personable, reasonably attractive, secure in your person, and most importantly have a happy disposition, you would be snatched up in no time if you were single. Don’t think that you have to stay because no one else would want you . . . that is a bunch of crap. I know that a lot of middle aged men choose younger women to have affairs with. I don’t know the reasons, but I can speculate. They are easier to manipulate. They have less life experiences and often less baggage. They tend to be upbeat; they haven’t been beaten up by life yet. Yes, they have “harder” bodies especially if they haven’t been through childbirth. Youth is intoxicating. I don’t really know. It seems that it is pretty common to see grey-haired, overweight, middle-aged men driving a cute young girl around in a convertible . . . If the man ever stopped and thought about, I think that he would realize that she isn’t with him for his hot sexy body. . . My OW was older than me so I don’t fit the stereotype.

You said that you are becoming clear as to what your EN are evolving to. Have you shared this with your husband? I know that I am a terrible mind-reader. I need to be told exactly what is expected, preferably in writing.

About going out to dinner. . . Don’t do relationship talks when you two are out. Those are precious times, at least in my life they are because they don’t happen too often. I don’t think you feel your husband’s love because he isn’t doing the things that you need to feel secure and loved. Tell him what is missing. Tell him often. If he still doesn’t try to meet these needs then you have learned an important fact about your relationship. How did someone put it “he really isn’t that into you”.

I don’t think that your husband replaced you with the other woman. He added her to his life and kept his wife there too. He didn’t move in with her, he didn’t file for divorce; he didn’t run off to some tropical island or go on a cruise with his OW. He had a sordid affair at his place at work. He did this because he could. No excuses for bad behavior. It was convenient and he had the expectation that it would remain private. It didn’t and that is a good thing.

Yes, if your husband wants you to remain his wife he needs to pucker-up and start kissing some major marital a$$. He needs to make sure that you feel secure, loved, and desired. I just want you to tell him explicitly what your needs are. I want you to express how much you are frustrated with his behavior towards you. . . with his apparent indifference. I think you need to tell him that you need to feel like you are the most important thing in his life, and then show him how to make you feel this way.

Who is rewriting your marital history? Do you have any old journals? If you do, then maybe there is some stuff in there that will remind you, and him, what your married life used to be. I don’t think that the A screwed you two up beyond repair. I think that the way it is being dealt with, and the way that you two are trying to reconnect isn’t working for you. So try something different!

Now, it is time for me to slap you around a bit . . .Put your damn ring back on your finger and do not take it off unless you get divorced. And don’t take it off then until the final decree is signed and approved by the court. You are a married woman. Start acting like one. It doesn’t matter if your H broke his vows, you didn’t. You need to pull him from the gutter, you certainly don’t need to go down in it with him.

As always, I wish you the best.


CN

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

bump for cv

CN, I was going to write to you last night. However, after dinner I was watching CNN and saw all the horror of the Tsunami(sp?), and somehom my A problems seemed pretty trivial at that moment. Now I'm back to the good old selfish me, but just wrote a long post to Ark, so I'll catch you later. Your post caused me to think about a lot of stuff. I'm still hurting from that giant 2x4 you whacked me with. CN, you took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting that reaction over my missing wedding ring. More to think about. CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong> CN, I was going to write to you last night. However, after dinner I was watching CNN and saw all the horror of the Tsunami(sp?), and somehom my A problems seemed pretty trivial at that moment. Now I'm back to the good old selfish me, but just wrote a long post to Ark, so I'll catch you later. Your post caused me to think about a lot of stuff. I'm still hurting from that giant 2x4 you whacked me with. CN, you took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting that reaction over my missing wedding ring. More to think about. CV </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh CV, I didn't mean to hurt you . . . God knows you are hurting enough. I just think that if you are trying to recover a marriage wearing a ring or whatever symbol you like is important. I also know that your ENs have not been met in a long time. The last think you need right now is an attractive man asking you out on a date (your not wearing a ring). Obviously, wearing a ring won't make your marriage better, or stop some men from asking you out . . . I just think it is an important symbol. Most people will respect what a wedding ring means. If you don't feel this way, then that is ok too.

If you were hurt by my words I appologize.

CN, still don't have the time to respond to your other post. Just wanted to tell you that you didn't hurt my feelings. I was just kidding with you. Sometimes my humor is a little lame. In certain ways I have pretty thick skin so I don't mind a good whack every now and then. I just was surprised by your reaction.

HMMMM, an attractive man asking me out on a date? As nice and appealing as that sounds there are a few problems with that fantasy. (1) There aren't any attractive men knocking on my door asking me out. Given that I'm unemployed I'm not exactly in the position to be meeting lots of men. (2) I would only have an A with a man who isn't Med. However, even if the man wasn't Med I wouldn't want to be with a man who'd be with me, a Med W. Does that make sense in some screwed up way? (3) Not wearing my ring has nothing to do with wanting to pick up anyone, even if there was someone to be picked up. I just don't feel exactly Med right now.

OK, I'll check back later, because I need to get my very lazy self in gear here. Just don't ever feel bad for anything you write to me. I know by now your intentions are always good concerning me. Heck you've been listening to the same crap from me over and over for months now. And you still manage to keep posting to me. CV

CN, I still haven't responded to your post. At some point I hope I can. I'm in a crappy place right now. Just wrote over in Recovery if you have any words of wisdom. No pressure! CV

BB you always give me hope to slot it out further.

Your post to CV here has so many parallells to my own situation its quite shocking, although we're only 5 months past the affair.
It will take me so very very long to recover from my Squids affair, if ever. Your posts make me see that its possible to live a happy married life again if you work on recovery enough.

I must have patience and live with my hurt until my Squid is in a place where she can help me heal it.
Thanks !

And all blessings CV

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<small>[ January 25, 2005, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: *blondblossom* ]</small>