DD,

One of the things about suicidal thought - is that it can actually take you to a good place if you let it.

I remember one celeb who tried to kill himself. He said "the part of me that wanted to die, did die".

When you think your life is not worth anything - that's just the perfect time to start letting some things go - and just take a few moments to have some fun.

You are seriously stuck on the rat-race treadmill.

My impression is that you feel that you have no choice. You "can't" take time off. You "have to" do all the housework. You "have to" do this and that for the kids.

But... really these thoughts are just the result of habits and internal rules. Your collection of rules is not working anymore. You need to change them. I'm not saying you "have to" change them. You can keep right along as you are.

But, you do have a choice.

If Friday's not good, we can talk about other times. Maybe put it off for a week. It's good to have things to look forward to. (It's also good to plan and I don't know if hunting season is a good time to hike over there if you don't want to get shot.)

Anyway, now is a great time to let loose a little and see what happens if you do the thing you "can't" do - or don't do the thing you "have to" do.

You are miserable - not only because of what your W has done to you - but because you feel that you have no choices. Your sence of committment to your marriage and family is great! - but you don't "have to" let it kill you. You are a free moral agent. You can make choices that other people don't neccesarily agree with - choices that work for you.

Maybe it's time to say "no" to some of the things your family thinks they "have to" have - things that you really can't affort to buy without working 60 hours a week. Maybe it's time to say "I need this" or "I want that"... for yourself.

BTW, my MB name "AD" doesn't stand for AntiDepressant - but for AbandonedDad - which is what I felt like 3 years ago. I remember the hopelessness. It does get better!

-Paul

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong>
You want a plan, well this is #1 on the plan. If you aren't on an AD, get on one. If you are on an AD, then get reassessed for another one. Sometimes it takes a while to get on the right AD. (2) Are you in IC? If you're not, find yourself a therapist, NOW!

These are 2 very concrete things YOU can be doing for yourself. When a person is severely depressed CV </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Answer #1:
I don't want to play musical meds....

Thank you....

Answer #2
And I'm sure you like this even less....

I don't have the $ around now to see an IC or a MC for that matter.


---------
You say I haven't answered those questions before. I would have to dig through all my posts. But I have. Not directly to you.

Yes I know people care. I know ya'll have more experiance than I with this stuff.....More so if any of you are in the medical field.
However, these are the cards I've been delt. I am trying to cope with that.
Not doing a very good job I might add. I don't like this. It hurts. I hurt. I have a hard time taking the very next step. Each moment during the day...moving to the next is so hard.
So, When i say I can't do this. I'm too small, and this is too big. Well that is how I feel.
I don't think killing myself is a cop out. It see it as a way out. You say 5 months is early.
I say it's 10 lifetimes of pain. Each day is years worth of pain and suffering. A year worth of tears. I hurt inside and out today. I cried all night. Finally fell asleep crying.

Got up a 5 am fed the chickens, gave them some fresh water (other stuff was frozen solid). let the dogs ram around the yard.
Didn't feel like a shower.
Ate a sandwich. looked at the hose in the front room.
Then I came to work.
Here I've spoken all of 10-15 words to people.
But other than that, I hurt from moment to moment. I fight of tears every 5 minutes...

vo·ra·cious
adj.
1. Consuming or eager to consume great amounts of food; ravenous.
2. Having or marked by an insatiable appetite for an activity or pursuit; greedy: a voracious reader.

So, yes, you spelled it right!

Dalton, I *know* how you are feeling. You think you are alone, but you are not. We BSs have all been where you are. There is no worse pain.

After my DDay, I lost 30 lbs! I only weighed 160 to begin with, so I got *really* skinny! I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. I just curled up into a ball on the floor and cried all day. I imagined murder/suicide scenarios.

I finally went to the doctor about no sleep. The weight loss concerned her, so she checked me for AIDS!! Geez! No AIDS, so she put me on Anti-Depressants. I did not want them. I didn't think I was depressed. The Celexa saved my life, man. I ultimately found my inner strength, but the Celexa helped me over the hump. You don't have to take them forever either. Eventually, your brain chemistry corrects itself, and you are fine.

What everyone else is saying is right. Your only chance to save your marriage is to GET YOURSELF TOGETHER!!! Your WW does not want a sniveling, mewling weakling. Women are attracted to strength. You have that strength, you just have to re-connect to it. The best analogy I read is the pilot one. You gotta put on your mask first to save the plane. You run around trying to fix everyone else, and the whole thing crashes.

Please please listen to the other posters. Like I told you in the other post, I have not posted here in well over a year, but you needed to be told these things. Your life has a purpose. Your life has meaning.

Keep responding to us, or I will personally come up there and kick your a$$!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sad Tiger

DD, there are many more ADs out there besides Prozac. That is actually one of the older ones out there. I started out on Lexapro and it definitely did not numb me out. If you and your W are having SF then you need to discuss all of this with your doctor so you can get on the right meds. I actually got on a mix of Lexapro and Wellbutrin. Seeing a psychiatrist might be a good option, but only if you can get an appt. right away. You need to tell your doctor how serious your depression is. In working with my clients who were in major depression, and my own state of mind after d-day, I can tell you that the combo of an AD and therapy can get your thinking straightened out. Sometimes exercise and eating right just isn't enough. Your biochemistry is probably totally screwed up right now.

OK, you answered question # 1. How about #2? Are you in IC? Can you possible afford a phone consult with Steve Harley? He is great at helping a BS understand the dynamics of an A. I always feel better after talking to him. More hopeful. SH shouldn't be in place of your IC. CV

Prozac is very old. Celexa, and now even better, Lexapro. NO SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS. NO ZOMBIE.

My Dr. would give me free sample packs. Trust me, the stuff is a life saver.

Think on what CV said...some very sound thoughts there.

I am also an avid reader. I keep all of my books I buy and I don't think there's a single one in this house I haven't read at least three times. I'm warey of trying out new authors so tend to stick with what I know I like <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This avidness also made me overdo it with the self-help stuff. It all started to sound the same after awhile!

Ok, even if you don't see the point, will you consider doing some or one of the following?

-Think about the Barnes&Noble thing. You can read all sorts of great stuff without paying for it and even enjoy a latte and comfy chair at the same time! I had one set night I did it...every Wednesday night I made myself go for at least two hours. Did I want to go? Did I have the energy to go? Heck no!! It was the LAST thing I wanted to do...but I did it any way. Soon enough I was looking forward to my Wednesday nights. Even considered doing it two nights, but didn't want it to become too monotonous. And ya know? I never talked to a single soul while there. But I did "eavesdrop" which was kinda fun and did the "peoplewatch" thing which was fun too. The great thing about this was being in a place full of people, but not looking stupid for being alone.
-Check out wwww.bookcrossing.com. Neatest thing I've ever seen in my life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Consider donating a paperbook to the "masses" by leaving it somewhere that has a lot of traffic (a Starbucks maybe). Then check every few days to see if your book has had any new adventures.
-Read a different kind of book than you usually do. For instance I tend to read Stephen King type books so a change for me would be a non-fiction history type of thing.
-was gonna suggest you go to the park and read there for awhile but you're in NY...brrrrrrr....

These are small things but they do not require a lot of effort on your part. They're easy to do. They're something to look forward to you.

Word of advice on eating. Do try to keep up eating well. I did not and ended up malnutritioned (hair falling out, scaley patches on skin, etc). Cottage cheese and pineapples became my best friends. No effort to "make" but good for you.

DD, at least you can eat! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You are much better off than I was. My stomach was so jumpy, I couldn't hold anything down. That is my typical reaction to stress.

I like MADDYK's B&N suggestion. I do something similar even now. I walk down the street, buy a paper, and drink coffee and do the crosswords at a little coffee shop here. (I am in Texas, so the temp is mid 60s here, unseasonably warm!)

Matter of fact, I am going right now!

Oh, I'm a big reader too. I read a stack of self help/self improvement books 3 feet tall! I probably should have at least a bachelor's degree for all the stuff I read.

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Sad Tiger ]</small>

DD,

OK, maddyk says you're in NY - so I guessed wrong on Dalton, GA.

Little River Canyon's a bit out of range.

-AD

Dalton Dad,

CV55 is right...you truly NEED an antidepressant right now. You can't just will yourself out of this without correcting the balance of the chemicals in your brain. There are SO many choices in the antidepressant area. You've tried two. I know it's a pain to try one and have it not work, but it's a necessary part of the program at this time.

Did you try those ADs BEFORE d-day or after? Have you ever experienced depression BEFORE d-day? Maybe not to this degree, but do you consider yourself a real happy person, or a person prone to depressive episodes? I have a hunch you are the latter and that this has put you over an edge that you never knew existed.

If you had an infection, the docs would be trying every antibiotic out there on you save your life until they found the one that could fight the particular kind of bacteria that you had. You'd let them too. Let them help you through this too. I know it's a hassle, but you've got to do it.

There should be some kind of county mental help in your area, or some kind of low cost counseling. Please try to find it!!

Stillwed

Double post!

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: stillwed ]</small>

DD, as AD mentioned, life is about choices. You do have choices here. You can choose to not see any of them if you want. Yeh, As suck! They suck bigtime! You feel like a lowly piece of crap. Well, we are all telling you that we all felt like sh** after d-day, and before d-day. The choice is this. Do you want to continue feeling like a piece of crap, or do you want to do something about it? And don't tell me that suicide is not a cop out! So right now every day for you is a lifetime of pain. If you choose suicide you are sentencing your children to a lifetime of pain. The painful memory of their dad committing suicide. And don't for one second think they will be fine. Suicide does run in families, and so your children might be destined to suicidal thoughts or worse. Sorry if I'm being harsh, but this is the truth. And if you truly love your W, you are sentencing her to a possible lifetime of guilt when she comes out of the fog.

You don't want to play "musical meds". Well then that is your choice. Although if you you put a little effort into finding the right AD you will be surprised at how much better you feel. Do you want to feel better? Concerning no money for IC. Do you have health insurance? If so that should pay for counseling. If not there are places that will offer reduced fees or even free therapy. I volunteer at a free clinic and I can tell you we have some of the best therapists around. Again, it's all about choices. We can all try to help you get on the right track to a healthier state of mind, but you are the only one who can take the necessary steps. CV

DD, If you don't want to try another AD how about St. Johns wart or SaME? (not sure if I spelled that right sorry). If you give us a clue where in NY you are I would be happy to help research free or low cost counseling options for you. I know how hard it is to get motivated when you are depressed.

I am going to read all of the posts here. Just wanted to say Dalton I am very glad you are here this morning. I would be happy happy happy (did I say happy? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) to help you make a plan.

I will be back after I am done reading. You have a virtual emotional army around you. Ain't that cool. We in cyber land care about you, we really do. I know we aren't your wife. I know you want more from her, but we do care.

Be back in a bit.

Tiggy

Dalton,

So caught up reading. There seems to be an anti depressant theme. I admit, I agree. But you said you don't want those. So, many people have pulled themselves out of suicidal depression before AD were invented.

What are some other ideas? IC maybe? Support Group maybe? I know that you said you can't afford it. Do you have a church that may offer free counseling from a pastor or priest? I googled a search for you on free, low cost counseling in New York and came up with a few links. That is where you are right?

And I want to say to you that I totally know what you mean about it being 5 months of living in hell. It hurts like unbelievable pain and you my friend are feeling it like a hot knife in your heart. It's like a 1000 stabs at your heart everyday. And you probably don't even get away from it in your troubled sleep.

And yes, I understand too that suicide seems like the logical answer rather than a cop out.

Makes sense, you hurt, your wife doesn't seem to understand what you want, pain is unbearable, and you can't see past the problems and how to *fix* them.

Seems like a logical answer AT THIS MOMENT. I will say it again, all of those things are temporary. It will pass. There is help out there.

So, let's get a plan started here.

First I want to know if you have a plan for killing yourself.

If so, do you have ready access to your method of choice?

I think that is should be the first step here. Removing the *how* you would do it.

Here to listen and support.

BTW, this is really helping me remember my first husband. I wish I could have been there for him like this. So in advance, I want to thank you for letting me in your life for this moment and give me the opportunity to support you. I hope I have been supportive anyway.

Tiggy

FF....I tried st johns wort after I went off the prozac for about 4 weeks. Didn't seem to do anything.

Tiggy....

You asked if I have a plan....yes
my post here outlines it

I'm home alone this week. Wife is off at in-laws.
Well I'm at work now.

I don't know how to remove "it"

I'm trying hard to be positive and forget about it. But since you asked last night. I had started the car. put some music in the cd player. was going to take a nap.

But today is a new day

I can't "not" go home. I've got dogs and chickens to take care of. And a grumpy old cats too.

I don't have a plan. Just to try to make it through each day. Today is okay. But I fear tomorrow. Or the next day.

I've tried to ignore my wife today. She called. Oblivious to all my pain, to the fact she could have been single today! I can't tell her this.
She thinks it's all about getting attention. Or testing her responses.

I don't even tell her when I'm hurting any longer.
I just shut up.

My plan...to make it till morning.
Then till tomorrow night...
soon it will be a new year.

But that scares me. I don't want to spend all of next year like this.
I read that some of the "older" crew round here still are in pain.
I don't want to live with that.

And if I must. SHould I do it with the person who cause me so much pain.
That is the hard part.

WHY THE HECK SHOULD I EVEN STAY MARRIED TO HER?

I'm trying, she's not.

I love her...she doesn't love me.

It just doesn't matter.

I've got to feel this pain one way or another. So why have her gloating face right in front of me each morning when I wake up.
Why prostrate myself to her abuse.

WHy?

When I can be alone....and try to figure out what dave wants.

Well, I am going out on a limb here on a marriage builder site. But here goes. I would rather see you divorced than dead. Dead is just so damn final. No hope to change anything. No hope to grow. No hope to reconcile. No hope for anything. Divorce is just a state of living but you are still alive.

I only have a minute but I will be back later.

Hang in there man. Day by day you can get through this. Pat yourself on the back for getting through last night.

And just asking if you can do this--stay away from drinking if you can. It is a depressant and only amplifies whatever you are feeling when you start drinking. Talk to you later.


Tiggy

DD, Well you sort of do have a plan. To get through each day. Try each day to do something for you. Not just your obligations to everyone else. Reading is a pleasure? Get a good book, not a self help book out and read. Make a fire or cup of hot cocoa to go with it. Lose yourself in that book. I like spy novels myself. Stay away from anything with romance. Take a long hot shower, call a friend just to shoot the breeze. Whatever it takes to make you feel good even for a few minutes. Hang in there. We are here for you.

DD - I have been going through this for 2 years. The pain does go away and life gets wonderful again. It is extremely hard at first, but soon you will start sleeping well and eating well, and then you will wake up one day and NOT be thinking about your wife anymore.

Stick with us.

DD, I'm glad you are checking in with us. Any chance you can look at fogged out W being away for a week as a vacation? Maybe even give you the chance to see if you feel better with her out of the house? Maybe you can use this next week to regroup.

Listen, the fogged out WS doesn't know what love is. My H was extremely fogged out. If you were to read my earlier posts you would read much venting about his withdrawal, and how can he ever love me again after being in-love with OW. It's all bullsh&&! They are in-love with the fantasy. Get yourself together and then you will have one more choice. YOU can choose whether you want to continue working on your M or not. You are giving your fogged out W way too much power. She's a sick puppy now. Remember that!

Don't do anything stupid, OK? Go rent some comedies or something! HUGS! ps, you have chickens? CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dalton Dad:
<strong>I can't "not" go home. I've got dogs and chickens to take care of. And a grumpy old cats too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen, DD, you're not making sense here. Who's going to feed the chickens when you're gone?

If the animals are getting you down, send the chickens to slaughter and take the dogs and cats to the Humane Society. Is your life not worth more than some chickens, dogs and cats?

You have options, choices!

You don't have to stay stuck in the rut.

C'mon, take a chance!

I had an uncle who had cattle. He also had wife who didn't drive and worked an hour away. So, every morning, he got up, fed the cows, drove his wife to work and back (2 hours drive) then went to work himself.

One winter day, when beef was about 72 cents a pound on the hoof, he just sold them all - even the bull. Sometimes a man just has to say, enough is enough! Don't be a slave to your animals, or your house, or your things!

-AD