</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thanks for the response. It is just SO hard not to call him back. He sounded SO sad.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GOOD.... he should be "SO sad" ... he's earned it.

That is the whole point of allowing someone to experience the rewards of cheating... the sadness is a part of his earnings from his affair. Don't you DARE cheat him out of his "earned sadness"

He owns his feelings. You are NOT responsible for his feeling better. He needs to earn that as well.... his integrity depends upon him getting himself out of his self-made-pickle!

DO NOT RESCUE !!! NO !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The sadness is highly desirable for recovery.

I am HAPPY that your WH feels sad.... that is a GOOD sign.

Pep

Update:

WH called 20+ times yesterday with pleading and begging for me to call him. I didn't. It was really tough. I called my M Coach, she said NO. He knows to talk to you he has to talk to me first. He called and my brother told him you have to talk to MC. He thinks coaching, internet help etc. is all BS, and that people should figure out their problems for themselves. AMAZINGLY.... he did call MC. She said he was angry, sad, pissed off, and distraught but talked to her for 2 hours!!! I am so amazed. He does not believe in the stuff at all. MC said he wanted to hang up on her several times, but didn't. Yeah! He said he and OW had agreed to no contact for any reason EVER. He will take precautions to not see her. If he/we see her someone he will say hello, but no engage in conversation. He will change his cell phone. If she calls our home he will no accept the calls (caller ID). He would not agree to do the no contact letter as he said it would just cause more problems for OW at home with her H, and since they already agreed to no contact he does not feel it is necessary. He said he and OW did not have proper closure when ending it previously. He did not realize by taking her call on XMas ever he was prioritizing her over me. This time they did get their closure I guess. MC suggested a no contact phone call to OW with me in attendance. We will see if he will go for that. On the plus side, he called MC. I am still amazed. He is making progress I guess. He agreed to talk to me about their conversation on ending things and to be open with me. He and OW were not together physically (earlier this week) as I had thought. MC said he seemed very sincere and she believes him. MC said I can see him today and discuss things. Wish me luck. I am very hopeful that now that he knows I am serious that he will work with me on us.

I thought he would call after his 2 hour talk with her, but he didnt. Either ticked he had to talk to her or spent from the stress of the day.... he called in to work (he never does that!) to try to track me down so we could talk. Amazing.

So, wish me luck, and wish us luck. I know it will take him time to get over OW, but I am willing to be patient. My family, however, think this is stupid and I should move on. I can't do that as he is my love and my life, although I am going to work on being less co-dependent.

Thank you everyone. I will give you an update on Monday.

Hi LibbyAnn...and good going choosing Plan B. It is meant to save you darlin' and no one else, and if the marriage is saved in the meantime, then it is a bonus. Trust me, I'm the poster child for Plan B failures, but when I finally "got it", there was no stopping and I returned back to the living. The old me, the destroyed me, the paranoid and worthless feeling me was left behind. The feelings of victimization can control our lives and dictate how we act and "react" to our WS. I constantly allowed "him" (as he does not deserve to be called a spouse) into my life; when I gave up trying to control him, I was able to control my life.

LibbyAnn recovering from an affair is one of the hardest things we, as BS, ever face. And for me, 2 years past DDay, several promises, words, etc., it does lessen in intensity; the pain that is. They play headgames, try to manipulate our feelings, and overall do more damage than the actual affair itself. We do sicken over their time spent with OP, but with a good Plan B (and it takes time sweetie), you will stop stressing over them and start worrying about you and what's important to YOU. You see, when the fog lifts and you see a part of the "old" spouse, our vulnerability is attacked and we give in. Plan B allows you to discern a fog lifting from a true, remourseful, and honest spouse. It is not that easy when in the thick of things; it only becomes clear when you take yourself out of the situation.

Trust me, I still go through this, each and every day "he" lives with OW. I'm just torn between spending $$ for a divorce or paying for the next semester of classes...lol. He's even made a conscious effort to end his affair...by moving out to North Carolina for a month. Gosh, at one time, I would have jumped at this, but when I asked the simple little question of...uh, when are "we" telling her your plans of moving back home with "us"; he said, "Kim, why would you want to hurt another person?" LOL, my response to him was "Bzzzz, wrong answer?" Byezzzzz and I introduced him to Mr. Click. I actually just laugh at his shenannigans now. Of course, I'm every kind of bad woman and mother; not that he is the one cheating, but I'm the offender here....what garbage. But you see, he was so used to me believing him, he now cannot handle me seeing right through his flimsy excuses. He called back about 10x after that and a different personality greeted me each time I answered the phone. At one point, I would listen, now I just laugh and am calm, confident, and if I want to answer I do, if I don't, he can ring all he wants.

So in essence, what a Plan B does is saves you from the madness until you are ready to face this adversary head on. Heck, you may never, ever speak to your spouse again, but the one thing I can guarantee LibbyAnn, is that you will come out with able to hold your head up high and say, "I respect myself". Good Luck!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am willing to be patient.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be patient ..... AND firm.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My family, however, think this is stupid and I should move on.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell your family that you ARE "moving on" with or without your husband. You hope for "with" ... but you will not be a party to a love triangle any longer. and that if your marriage survives ... it will be a NEW marriage because the old marriage has expired.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can't do that as he is my love and my life,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The "WH" is NOT the love of your life. Unless your HUSBAND resurfaces, you will move on, because "WH" is not the man you love. Be clear and honest about that with yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> although I am going to work on being less co-dependent.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A co-dependant wife creates one hell-of-a sick relationship. She does not simply "tolerate" wrong behavior, she is co-author !!! It took ME awhile to recognize MY part of the situation that allowed the illness of alcoholism to infect our family. I not only tolerated it, I encouraged it by enabling and removing consequences for my H's drinking.

Please, do not attempt to manage your H's feelings ---> which is actually your ego massaging your pride ---> by choosing to identify yourself as the "helper" or the "soother" you identify your spouse as needy .

If you step back, and honor that your H needs to manage his own sadness ---> he becomes a healthier man, a stronger man.

My H just celebrated 9 years sobriety ---> he is now an amazing MAN ---> and he is a very responsible man who manages his fears and anxieties sober. I really admire him.

Pep

Everyone, thank you so much again for all of the responses. I appreciate each and every one. You have all given me the strength to move forward with this and do what it takes to improve the situation. As my wise M Coach said, if you keep doing the same thing with no change in the situation, why would you think that keeping on doing that same thing would bring about any change? I finally got it I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I will try to stay strong.... I will stand up for myself and have dignity (and work toward some serenity). I have the things I need WH to do, and it is his choice to do or not to do them, but if he chooses not to, then I have to do what is best for me again which would be to remove myself from the situation again.

I think that WH agreement to change cell, talk to me about what I need to know (previously after he and OW split, would not talk about it AT ALL), precautionary measures not avoid OW, refusal to accept calls from her etc. will do a lot in helping me feel better about the situation. Also the fact that he was willing to talk to MC, which he does not believe in made me feel better. No more door mat, I am going to call some of the shots now - at least in regard to what I am willing to accept or not. Feels kind of empowering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for all of the concern and I will post how the weekend goes when I return to work on Monday.

With much gratitude, LibbyAnn

Stay in Plan B. Stay dark. Don't fall for his effort to establish contact. He needs to know that you mean business. I doubt that you will have to do this much longer.

Update to all:

Things are in place per Penny's (@SYMC) and M Coach suggestions.

Phone # changed. Done.
_____________________________

NC letter sent - this you might need to be part of. (If he can't do that for you then you don't want him back.)

Decided not to do a NC letter at this time as WH has done a NC call. Actually OW and her H called WH. I had informed OW H that OW was calling my WH again per caller ID. OW H went to her work and they called WH. OW H said to stop stalking his W, that she wanted nothing to do with WH, and never did. That per OW it was all WH fault (not true per caller ID - she called him several times, WH never called her...and per time I have spent with OW and what I know to be true from WH).

Basicially OW lied to her H. WH astounded that she would not be truthful to her H as WH has been truthful to me (painfully truthful). OW said she never wanted to be with WH, and that he harassing her. WH finally saw her true colors. WH embarassed that she had duped him in to believing her and in the process had put our life together in jeopardy. WH said he will never speak to her again. Could not believe what an actress she was.
_____________________________

All financial info completely open to you. Done. I am in charge of all finances. I am keepingmy direct deposit seperate for the time being.
_____________________________
Accountability for time and whereabouts 24/7
Done. He is always available to me via his cell phone (with his new number)
_____________________________
Email pw's available if he has any.
Not a problem, no computer at home.
_____________________________
Phone records going forward completely open to you - even if he changes the #.
They are, and always have been. He did a bad thing, but has always been honest about it.


I will attach a copy of email update I sent to M Coach.


Good morning. Weekend went REALLY well.

Friday I got home around noon. I think WH aged 10 years while I was not talking to him. He looked SO worn out. We talked about everything. He has vowed to not be in contact with OW in any form. He will tell me is she tries to contact him. He was very sincere. It felt like I was talking to my old H again. I certainly hope so. I do not believe he would do that again, I think he finally understands my boundaries and that I WILL leave contact with him if he has ANY contact with OW whatsoever. He said how much he missed me - and that he can't ever do that again (go without talking to me). I guess Plan B or PP is pretty darn effective even though it is scary as heck to do!

In addition, I think he is finally seeing that OW is not the person who he thought she was. He told me that OW H called him (after WH talked to you) and told him to keep the h--- away from his wife and to stop stalking her. OW H was calling WH from OW's place of work. WH told him that he was not stalking her, and that she is the one who called him on Christmas Eve, and several times the days following that. WH did not call her once. He told OW H that she was the one who reinitiated contact with him and he had not called her once since they stopped contact in November. OW H told WH that was a liar, and that OW told him that WH was hassling her and OW wanted nothing to do with WH - and said some derogitory things about him. Well, WH said let me talk to her and hear her say that. She confirmed it.

I think WH sees now that she is not the "honest" person that she portrays herself to be. WH said he could not believe that OW would sit there and let her H rant at him for all that time saying things that were not true and did not stand up to her H and tell him the truth. I think inside OW H does know the truth because I had told him that his W had called my H several times from her work per our caller ID. I guess he would rather believe what she said then the truth. I can understand that, not wanting to face the truth. WH did apologize to OW H for the situation.

OW H told WH that if he ever sees him it would not be pretty, and that if he ever finds out WH is talking to his W it would be bad. WH said why would I want to talk to your B---- of a wife, who apparently lies and has no conscious. WH was telling me that OW always told him that she could never lie, and there she did it. I think it really made him see her true colors. He told me he was so very sorry. He said he thought she was a nice person like I am, but that she is really just an actress.

WH does not know that I was the one that told OW H that his W was contacting WH again. Should I have told him? I just let things go. WH said he had told OW I had left and he said he was mad because she did not even care.... it was like, so what.... now I can just have you at my beck and call for when my H makes me mad. WHd also said that he thinks that OW called on Christmas Eve just to make trouble between the two of us because she had to know that we would have been spending the day together. He is waking up out of his fog I think!

Later that day we took down our Christmas decorations and had a really mellow day. We played board games and had a nice dinner at home. We then watched a few movies and had a fire. Rang in the new year..... and did not answer the phone. Very nice mellow evening. : )

Saturday was more of the same.... bad ice storm here so stayed home. Played board games and cooked. Really nice.

I have not worn my engagement ring for months... since I thought he was going to live with her. I had it in it's box sitting out and I told him that he should hold on to it for now and if he wants me to wear it again some day, to let me know. I thought I should give him time to deal with his OW feelings before I just put it on. I know that it will be tough trying to reconcile in his head who he thought she was and who she proved herself to be when she and her H were on the phone. Well, he took it out of it's box right then and there and put it on my finger and said he ALWAYS wants me to wear it. Nice moment.

Sunday he changed his cell phone number. That was a relief for me. Was not put off for another day....... : )

We went to bed early last night. I slept pretty good. Better than in weeks.

Thank you so much. I think things are really going to be okay. I did leave WH a note telling him I appreciate his efforts. I told him this yesterday and wrote it in the note again that I think OW will try to contact him and that I appreciate him giving his word he will not talk to or see her. I think she will try to contact WH when her H is not around to make excuses for lying when she was on the phone with WH and H about the situation. He said he does not think she will contact him, but if she does try to he will let me know and not speak with her. Their phone numbers (her work, her mom, their home) have all been blocked from our house phone. His cell phone number has been changed. I just hope she does not drive out to my house. I may have to hire a hit man then...... just kidding. : )

Well, that is the update as of now. Again, thank you for everything. I am going to keep my boundaries. I am keeping my financial stuff seperate for now, until a little time passes and I feel more comfortable.

-LibbyAnn

I confess... I totally LOVE a strong Plan B !!!

AWESOME !!!!

Pep

Pep,

Remember me last week while doing Plan B. Panic attacks.... thinking I was doing the exact wrong thing.... Well, I think it was the EXACT correct thing to do. Amazing. These people know what they are talking about. Plan B is scary, but, at least in my case, amazingly effective!

I know we will have more bumps in the road and it is going to take H time to get over feelings for OW (thankfully she helped with her behavior), and I need to keep my boundaries and not be an enabler.

But I am feeling positive.

I will keep everyone posted.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Plan B is scary, but, at least in my case, amazingly effective!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes... Plan B is awesome. Give the WS what they "think" they want ---> freedom ... and their sudden sense of loss of family is usually very acute. Not to mention, highly motivating.

Pep