Ark, just curious. What do you mean that the WS and OP use sex as a "weapon and conquest/imagined contest"? Will it help me get over the sexual betrayal to know what you're talking about. Because God knows, I need help in that area. Thanks! CV

I don't know if this will help...cause it is just my opinion...

so I'll just ramble out my thoughts about this...

I believe that human sexuality is one of the greatest gifts given to us by God....

and it is a gift with many many levels and many parts that need to be in place for it to be honored as such a gift....

there is the level on which it exist that it gosh darn feels good...
really good.......

but it is only truly at its best when two people can fully embrace and share all of it....

just the logistics of an affair...
make that impossible....

never ever will sex between a WS and OP meet the standards of God's gift...and God's blessing....

it is always lacking...

it lacks the ability for two people to nuture not on a schedule...not when they can 'get away'
not just 9-5...
or any other restriction.....placed in its way...

it lacks the ability to physically care for someone outside of the sexual aspect...
when one is sick
when one is upset
when one is anything..
it is a total compartmentalized relationship...
existing within a realm outside of God's blessing...

So very often the WS and OP control only what they can...the physical part...
which is the easiest part out of it all...

so they heighten this aspect because of the missing other aspects..
it plays right in to the rationalization, justification, and fog...

it must be love
it must be good
it must be grand...

because the action is so awesome....
yet when it's all said and done ...that's all there is...

empty missing parts...reality...creeps in and fringe on each and every encounter...

so sex becomes their weapon to prove to eachother, themselves and those they hurt....that there relationship lacks nothing...yet it lacks everything that makes it a real relationship...

It's a contest in using the feel good part to PROVE their love...
to PROVE they must be right and good...
yet the love they prove lacks the other stuff needed to really make it good...

When I read the other board...it amazes me the length some go to use their own sexuality to try to create that which they can not create...
becasue healthy sexual relationships are not just created in and of the sex...

just look at the recent christmas plans...
how to get together sometime around the holiday and screw....
yeah I think that's what God intended the celebration of Christmas to be about.....
and they are the ones that call it their christmas get together...not me...

and deny this they, will cause they will also speak of great communication and connection and blah blah blah..but it's false because it is only on a hidden plain that it exists....
restrictions on calling
texting
emailing
hidden
etc...

I have been involved in a lot teenage mentoring thru different youth groups in my time....
and have had many many discussions with teens about human sexuality as it exists within their lives....
relating both to the good and sinful part....

When discussing this in relationship to sin...I would never say the deed is the sin.....
that sex is bad....
sex is wonderful....yippeeee!!!!!!!!!!

but it's deeper than that...

the sex part is the easiest part of it all...
it's the other stuff... that's hard...
and teenagers are like affair partners...they do the easy feel good stuff without the ability to care for and nuture the other stuff...
and sometimes this using of eachother causes great damage..for they don't have resources to change this fact or go back and un-do damage...
they give up parts of themselves...

there in lies the sin in my opinion for they disregard the deeper needs of eachother...and meet only the feel good ones...

they disregard the need for true companionship
true ability to be there for someone 1000%

and in essence they sell themselves and the other person out....
teens can't logistically meet eachothers needs they lack the resources...
and it is only a reflection of what can be....

WS and OP take from eachother the act...without backing it up with the actions that human nature really craves....(realizing my paint brush is very very broad here)

Each physical contact no matter how good it feels... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> leaves them emptier than they were ...

It can not nuture their soul...
it leaves to many empty spaces...

sex within a committed relationship proves nothing...and is never used to prove anything...it is only an extended celebration of the gift of sexuality...the ones that go on outside of the bedroom...

there is something very sad about the using and abusing this God given gift...

it truly is a weapon of proving something that can not be proven in the act alone...

It is a selfish attempt to feel good about what they are doing.....and it is a futile pursuit...

and it leaves them empty somewhere deep inside...some come to realize that...
some bury it deep...
and deny that...and keep filling that space with the easy part...hoping it will fullfil them and be enough...
but I don't think it is enough....
and in the end it's just really a sad way to connect with someone while professing to love them soooooo much... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

sexual contact within an affair...becomes everything that God's gift should not be...

ARK

JMHO, Ark, but a pretty good post!

The difference between "to lie with," and "to know."

God bless.

Thanks Ark. Great post. I really needed to hear that. I also have trouble with the sexual betrayal.

HINY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is a selfish attempt to feel good about what they are doing.....and it is a futile pursuit...and it leaves them empty somewhere deep inside...some come to realize that...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right on about my sitch, ARK. My H did come to realize this fact. He told me that he wanted the SF to be great, and even though he was disappointed with it, he kept thinking it would get better, if they tried it again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

He says it was an empty shell of what it is like when him and I are together. He very much felt a difference in that area, and he very much used SF with her to "prove" he loved her, not me, they were meant to be together, yada yada yada. He kept saying things like, "I wouldn't have been able to hurt you so badly if it wasn't true love, wasn't meant to be."

Personally, I thought it was just poor choices, poor decisions. BUT, while foggy, WS's don't/can't see that about themselves, IMO. They think to cause this much pain to others and themselves, that it all must mean something Profound. Like a teenager would! *sigh* What a difference a year makes.

Spidey

Ark, thanks for taking the time to write your very thoughtful post. Reading it I got all teary-eyed. Why? I guess because from the time I knew about the PA I also knew it would be one of the 2 biggest hurdles for me to overcome in order to recover. In trying to help me with this Shattered Dreams said for him the sex in his FWW's A was about body parts, but he has her heart. SD, if you're reading this I hope I got that right. I wish I could just look at it that way, but I'm not there yet. It wasn't until a few months ago that I could even acknowledge that the sex they had was good. My fantasy I'm sure was to have H tell me it sucked. He couldn't do that unfortunately.

Concerning the logistics. I'm not sure if you know my story, so sorry if I'm repeating info you know. My H and the OW never had to sneak around. It was all very cozy and comfy. Maybe I'd feel better if I knew they had to screw quickly in the back seat of his car. But they had plenty of time and space to fully explore their sexuality. Thus nothing seems sacred or special with us anymore. My H is a funeral director and OW was his office manager. A very small business in a very homey "funeral home". Offices upstairs with a kitchen and 2 full baths. They spent 40 to 50 hrs. a week together, compared to the minimal time that was spent with me. They probably were alone together often a few hrs. at the end of every day. In addition to that they would meet at the park and walk together, along with their occasional dinners out. I've said here many times that for H work was home, with the OW greeting him every day, and home was work, where he would work hard at avoiding me.

After the PA became known H said to me a few times that it was the emotional component, not the sex, which kept him going. Although I think he said the sex sealed the A. He felt so cared for, admired, totally accepted and loved by OW. Funny thing is the EA never has bothered me half as much as the PA. I knew it was such a bunch of hoohey. Is that a word? One of my revenge fantasies was that they would have gotten together, because I knew the fantasy would crack, and when it did H would be miserable.

I do think OW used sex as a weapon, or maybe I should say a lure. H's IC called her the "master of seduction." H had this great dream not long after d-day in which he was walking in our neighborhood and an armadillo was blocking his way. The armadillo was OW. He tried to get past her and she said to H something like, "I'll give you some candy if you don't tell your parents." OW gave that boy lots of candy! But what was the sex for H? At 1st I didn't think I could ever compete with his memory of "in-love sex". We've been together for 26 yrs. and stage 1 was a long time ago. So truthfully I don't know if he felt empty afterwards. I mean he was having sex with his soulmate. I know he doesn't even like thinking about it now.

You wrote about how A partners talk about "great communication and connection." It amazes me how H thought he could tell her anything, yet he couldn't see that when he talked about the following deep issues she would either be quiet or minimize. Issues such as telling her what they were doing was wrong. It went against his values. OW: "It's not an A because we're in-love." I've quoted that often on MB because it is a classic line. And when he tried talking about our boys she would just blow off the effects of D on them.

Anyway, I hear what your saying. I hope that one day I can get to the point that the sexual betrayal doesn't hurt so badly. That I can be in the FH and not look in every room and see them having sex there. I'm reading "The Five Love Languages" and Chapman writes that for the BS whose primary love language is physical touch the sexual betrayal not only empties our emotional love tank, "it has been riddled by an explosion." Plus the fact that H withheld all physical touch from me during his A, which coincided with a time of personal loss. So he gave to her physically when I needed him the most.

Sorry, I'm babbling now. I'm still looking for the magic formula that will help me to understand and accept the unacceptable. As much as I get these As, I could write a thesis on them now, my heart hasn't caught up to my brain. Thanks Ark! CV